Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Inga · Veteran Member

Verbally abusive alcoholic!!! Please help!!

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Inga))) Welcome to Miracles in Progress You are not alone. There are many who can identify with your pain and unhappiness so that you have come to the right place.

Alcoholism is a chronic, progressive disease that can be arrested but never cured. You did not cause it and cannot cure it nor control it . As you noted, living with this disease has devastating afffects on the entire family. Alanon is a fantastic recovery program for family members. Face to face meetings are held in most communities and the hot line number is in the white pages. Please check out the meetings and keep coming back here as well. There is hope

Inga · Veteran Member

Thank you Betty! I have attended 3 meetings so far and will keep on going. I know it will be beneficial!

Verbal abuse though is NOT something I must learn to just accept. It is NOT OK. Do you have any suggestions for boundaries????? I have been married a long time, with a family, a history, etc.....Well, he is now on the couch, and not in the bedroom. My heart has been too hurt. I want nothing to do with him ever again. If I had it to do over again, I would have said YEARS ago, "you either get help or it's OVER".

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Inga - welcome to MIP - glad you are here and glad that you shared. So very sorry that you are 'at wits end' with the verbal abuse. I can relate and unfortunately, both my boys picked the 'habit' up from their father. One of many things I wish I had been able to fix before they became adults.

It's never acceptable to be abused. It doesn't matter if it's verbal, emotional, psychological or physical - it's unacceptable. I have no solutions for you but can share that I walk away, leave the room, leave the house, avoid the qualifier - I'll do anything to avoid it. It has gotten better as I stopped reacting to it - I believe choosing to leave and/or ignore them when they are 'abusive' takes the power and fun away.

Keep going to meetings and seek a sponsor. You will quickly learn to detach as well as set boundaries for protection of self. (((Hugs))) to you - you are not alone.

Keep coming back!

Inga · Veteran Member

Thank you so much Iamhere

KT2015 · ~*Service Worker*~

I can identify with this. My AH would often get mean nasty and verbally abusive when drunk. I agree with Iamhere walking away and not reacting takes away all the fun. It's amazing how we fall into these bad dynamics without realizing it then wake up one day and think WOW how did this happen? In my case I was ready to leave and shared that with my AH and shared it when I was calm. Not as a threat or a way to get him to stop drinking but a real sharing of how I was feeling . In my situation it concerned him but I see now how it could have easily blown up in my face. My boundary that has worked wonders is that we do not have any discussions about anything of importance if he has had a drink. Another one is I have the right to shut down any conversation I feel is disrespectful to me at any time. A third one is that I will chose not to sleep in the same bedroom if his drinking is bothering me (the stinking breathe, the loud snoring etc). At first he pushed the boundaries and I went as far as to leave the house to get some peace when he was drunk. I have also been standing up for myself more often regarding how I am spoken about at home. There used to be some running jokes about how forgetful I am etc that got wayyy out of hand. So I put and end to that crap. I demanded more respect around that. I understand the pure and utter feeling of disgust towards him. Al Anon helped me with that. I suggest going to a local meeting.

Inga · Veteran Member

KT:

BUT, HOW can you stay married to a man you have complete and utter disgust for?

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Inga - We learn in the program to separate the person from the disease, and in time, have empathy for the qualifier. My husband is a completely different person sober than active in his disease. The program will help you determine if your disgust is for the man or the disease. It takes time to process through the chaos and drama of the disease, so it's recommended no major decisions for 6 or more months. Of course, this suggestion goes out the window if you feel you are in danger (abuse) or at risk of injury through abuse of any form.

Inga · Veteran Member

Dear Iamhere:

I think wives of AH who are verbally abusive are yes, at risk of injury, not physical, but emotional. It is very damaging to our human spirit and cannot be tolerated. I'm really hoping Al-Anon is not just a group that teaches us how to put up with abusers, by "walking out of the room", "not talking about anything important when they're drunk", etc. This does not solve anything. The bottom line is they are hurting others their families and loved ones, their wives, children, by their use of their substance and all the resulting chaos it causes! We wives with children (mine are grown now) are responsible for these little lives! To see such disfunction going on in the home....is NOT TOLERABLE! Wives must get themselves and their children away from such damaging people! Oh if I could rewind time, I would have gotten my children out and away, and maybe I would have had a happy marriage to a decent non addict for the past 20 years!!!!! I don't buy "it's the disease speaking" -----if an AH spews out nasty verbage, he/she is choosing to do so!!!!

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Inga Alanon is certainly not a program that encourages members to embrace principles that enables the alcoholic or anyone else to engage in abusive destructive behavior.

We who live with this disease have developed negative social tools that cause us to focus on everyone else and neglect ourselves. We think(incorrectly) that we know what everyone should do and we waste our time trying to force them to act as we see fit. Alanon asks us to not give advise but look at ourselves, examine or motives , search out our destructive ways and live with courage

Alanon offers tools that helps us to learn to rebuild our damaged self esteem, embrace our self worth, stop reacting to situations and thereby giving away our power. We learn to RESPOND in a healthy fashion after Thinking the situation through , keep the focus on our own needs and live one day at a time.

We do not give advise in alanon. We believe that the right action for each person lives within that person. We encourage each member to go within and search out the answer that is best for them. Each person must be given the respect that enables them make their own healthy choices.

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

Inga, al-anon above all else encourages us to listen to our own inner guidance and make the right decisions for ourSELVES.

By detaching as much as possible from the craziness and abuse that came from the A in my life by..yes, walking out of the room and not getting dragged into drunken arguments, amongst many other thing, I was able to slowly but surely gain clarity in my thinking and make choices that were right for ME. The gentle non-judgemental al-anon program helped me do that and one of the things that helped me feel safe to share and gain strength in the program WAS the very fact that no-one was badgering me to leave or trying to guilt me into making what they thought was the right decision for me.

As to the abuse...I was never able to tolerate verbal abuse and I used to fight back, or to explain to the abuser why their abuse was wrong...with no result of course. Now, as a rule if anyone speaks rudely or unkindly to me without reason, I simply don't interact with that person.
That's my boundary and it works fantastically for me.

I do hope you'll keep attending meetings and find some peace and clarity!

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

My thought is you are incredibly brave to be as honest with yourself and this situation as you are being now. Proceed...one day at a time.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Inga Al-Anon helps us and supports us in developing many solutions to the problems of alcoholism. What we learn to do for us may work while for others it may not. Ours isn't a perfect program and we strive for progress one day at a time. Sure if you are at the end of your rope then leaving is an option and then leaving angry or leaving calmly. Alcoholism is a disease not a moral issue and alcohol is a mind and mood altering chemical...good people become threatening and insane under its influence and alcohol itself is the cause of the addiction...it causes the alcoholic to keep coming back for more even when they suffer the negative consequences...how sick is that? It is well know that the alcoholic has but three choices...sobriety, insanity or death. Many get sober and sane while many also get insane and die...willingly? Willingly sober is very different than willingly under the influence and I believe you are living with the latter category. He's not in his right mind because his mind is in the alcohol. No one can thing straight under the influence and under the influence then is not where you will be...best decision? go somewhere safe and sane for you. Keep coming back here also the MIP fellowship is widely experienced. ((((hugs)))) smile

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome Inga, I'm sorry that you have been in this situation for such a long time. I agree, abuse is not acceptable. Full stop. I like the way that you are able to take alcohol out of the equation and simply look at what you can and can not tolerate. The next question for me was 'what do you want to do now?'

In my experience abuse undermines everyone's self esteem and when I felt the urge to shout back, or when I recognised how I was feeling about my husband, I know I felt bad about myself let alone what I thought about him. I imagine that my husband felt the same way.

The reason why I left was because I could not put up with the changes that I saw coming to the surface in my own nature and behaviour. I am an optimist and value kindness but I was becoming afraid that I would be a bitter old lady if I stayed. My husband and I are back together now, trying to rebuild that trust but I had to reach a point where I was prepared to give up my marriage to protect myself, and start over on my own without carrying too much resentment with me. I am pleased that I made that move and I am also pleased that we are trying again now that he is no longer drinking.

At times it felt to me a bit like training a wild horse or bringing up a child - 'no, you do not get my attention by using bad behaviour. Try something else!'

Alanon is a great programme for teaching us how to rise above behaviour that would ordinarily cause resentments and how to forgive ourselves for having tried so hard to preserve a marriage that we forgot how to look after ourselves. And lots more besides.

Yankeerose · Senior Member

Great post Jerry. You put it in a way that is easy for me to understand. Very matter of fact and to the point.

Inga, AlAnon does not encourage someone to stay with an abusive partner. Everyone's reasons for staying or leaving are very unique to their situation and personal feelings. I stayed with my AH because I am still in love with him and was able to see past his disease and hang on to the hope that he would find true recovery which for now he did. AlAnon showed me a different way to live by putting the focus back on me and giving some of my self esteem and self worth back. My coping skills for dealing with AH were insane. I now have better and more compassionate ones which helps our entire family. Most importantly it helps me to see that I am not alone.

Hope to see you coming back here and I can certainly understand you being at the "end of your rope" as Jerry mentioned. I have read that many people can't last a year living with an active alcoholic. Take care of you.

Debb · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome Inga!! I too felt like you, my AH was so verbally abusive and I felt the same way you do, so disgusted!! Al-Anon will give
you the tools to stop those hurt feelings and get your dignity back, but you do need to join a local group.
al-anon.org/find-a-meeting

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome. Just to say that there is absolutely no requirement to stay in an abusive situation. Al-Anon cannot give advice about whether you should stay or leave (unless the situation is physically dangerous) because everyone's situation is different. It is suggested that you attend meetings and work on your own recovery before making a major longterm decision, because often we make decisions without having things in place to follow through on them. I hope you can find a good meeting - they say to try six because they're all different. Glad you found us!

Inga · Veteran Member

WOW! Thank you so very much everyone! There are comments I want to say to each of you......mostly thank you for taking your time to respond to me. I have felt like an abused and trapped woman for so long, I DO want to take care of me now, I'm not getting any younger! I fully see how much damage it has done to me throughout the past 10 years especially, when my AH had an affair too! I've really been through it. Since his affair his A has escalated. Pitiful! I prayed to my HP then 10 years ago, to please get me out of this marriage, but fear and low self-esteem held me back, plus having no career and no place to go. That's huge! I couldn't have done anything then, when my children were small.

I woke up this morning near tears, with such a hurting heart. When I confront my AH about his abusive behavior and language, he shuts down, says nothing. How I long for an apology, words of kindness, they just aren't in his heart. This grieves me so much! My AH never apologizes when he speaks to me in drunken abuse. He just ignores it! I will attend a meeting soon, thank you Jerry for advising me to go to 6 in 6 days. Thanks MissMeliss for showing me what a "boundary" looks like. Can someone else give me some more examples of boundaries????? I need some concrete help here folks, not just attend meetings, which I will do! After the latest verbal abuse session, I decided I just cannot share a bed with him any longer. This is a sad boundary but I feel is necessary. Now, what a grand marriage this is! NOT.

Thank you thank you. I look forward to going to at least 4 meetings a week and learning more.

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Inga,

As far as boundaries, they are good practice for something being all about you. They are your personal lines in the sand that you state, and you also state the consequences for crossing them. Even the consequence is about you, since you have no real power over others (see Al Anon's first step).

So, for negative examples, boundaries should not be - you won't go to the bar on the weekdays. That isn't about you. Consequence - If you go to the bar on weekdays, you will not be allowed in the house. Again, you don't have the power to do that, especially if he is on the title.

BUT - you can say if you go to the bar on a weekday, I won't be here when you get home. I don't like the abusiveness when you get home. And I will stay away until there is an apology.

This is just an example, I know so little of your situation. As noted above, we don't give advice, so just understand how to use this example to set your own boundaries.

State your boundary, but state it kindly. Boundaries should be set as dispassionately as possible, so that they sound like they are about protecting you, because that's what they are. They aren't to punish the other person, they are to protect you from unacceptable behavior, dangerous situations, etc.

and BTW Attending meetings *is* concrete help, you will realize that once you get to one. And keep coming back here, we all grow as a result of sharing. ((Inga))

Kenny

Inga · Veteran Member

Great Kenny! Thank you so much! It's just a sad situation though, why should I have to leave my own house because someone in it is drunk? Why should I have to be away until they sober up? So their behavior forces ME out of my own home? I don't want to live like this!

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Of course you shouldn't have to live like that, and you don't have to. You can set whatever boundaries seem appropriate to you. And in fact you don't even have to state them. Stating them often causes the drinker to argue and hassle us, so sometimes we can just quietly go about with following through on our boundaries. It might be like, "If this abuse continues, I will start phoning lawyers to see about a separation," or "If he comes home drunk, I will go to my own bedroom which I've prepared to be cozy and comforting, and have a quiet evening pampering myself and watching my favorite show." Or, "If he tries to drag me into an argument, I'll just nod and say, 'I'll think about that' and refuse to engage."

But you are under no obligation to put up with anything you don't want to. The only proviso is that you can't control what he does - you can only control what you do. So he may rant and rave and drink and act insane, and that's not something anyone else can control. But you don't have to stick around for it. That part you can control.

Figuring out where you want to set your boundaries, and how to follow through, is not always simple. On these boards and at meetings you'll gather many more examples of boundaries and how they work, so yours can be more effective.

Keep on taking good care of yourself.

KT2015 · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Inga
Looks like you got lots of good experience and sharing from this board on this topic. To answer your question of me.....I don't have utter disgust for him anymore. I did for a long time. It was actually one of my close friends in my real life alanon meeting. A woman who chose to leave her own AH who helped me with the compassion piece. Compassion for someone isn't excusing or tolerating the behavior though. And with the boundaries I have set I am no longer experiencing verbal abuse. I speak up for myself, I walked away and I refused to be in the situation I was in. And the verbal abuse has stopped. The beauty of this program is you can chose what is best for you and no one will judge your choices. I hope the face to face meetings are helpful for you. Wishing you all the best.

KT2015 · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh and I completely agree with Mattie. Sorry I didn't read all the comments. You don't have to put up with any of it. But the reason my boundaries are me walking away is that is what I have control over. I can't tell him he has to leave because he's being rude or drunk or annoying or nasty. Because if he says no I'm still in the situation I was in and now I have lost all credibility. For me it doesn't matter who stays and who leaves. What matters more is my piece of mind. So if I have to leave the room or leave the house to get it I will do that. You will figure out boundaries that work for you. It took me a while to find the right boundaries for me.

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

I like to imagine my boundaries as an actual physical bubble around me. It's for me to decide, what will I allow in here, within my own little space? Abuse, ridicule, being taken advantage of or manipulated, physical harm or feeling threatened...these are some of the things I have come to realise are NOT permissable within my little bubble of the world. If it's happening outside my bubble, even if I don't like it, I can't control it and need to leave it be (unless someone vulnerable is being harmed somehow, like my child etc). So, how can I make sure this is enforced? I can't change the way others behave, so what can I do to maintain a safe and serene environment for myself?
Well, sometimes it did come down to me having to leave, even sleep in my car some nights (ugh!!). It isn't fair, just as it isn't fair that we have to leave our homes when there is a disaster like a bushfire or floods, but you don't stay and argue with the flood waters and just the same, I won't stay and try to argue with the alcoholic if he's being abusive. That's sort of how I try to imagine it.

Of course it's unfair and ridiculous and stressful and I seethed with angry resentment (another feeling I don't want within my bubble) and eventually I decided I could not and would not live like that anymore and so, I no longer live with him (although I still love him and see him regularly). He lives somewhere else and when he's there it is none of my concern how he behaves, or how much he drinks, in fact I don't even want to know about it. What matters is when he comes into my environment now, he'd better not bring his fires or floods or he won't be allowed back. And it generally works well and when he occasionally behaves poorly he apologises and makes amends or he knows he won't be welcome again. It's not perfect but it's light years from the way it was a few years ago when I too felt like an abused and trapped woman and instead of apologies, each abuse was followed by further abuse and blame for the first abuse to boot!

Anyway that's just some examples of how my boundaries have evolved (and when I came to al-anon 2.5 years ago I literally had NO boundaries and had no idea what they were or how to have them). Take what you like and leave the rest.

Great to hear that you plan to attend lots of meetings, that's fantastic

-- Edited by missmeliss on Thursday 14th of January 2016 10:43:41 PM

-- Edited by missmeliss on Thursday 14th of January 2016 10:44:56 PM

Inga · Veteran Member

Thank you so much MissMeliss! That helps me so much! I hear some people saying, when their AH sobers up, they say they're sorry, promise it won't happen again, give them gifts. I want to say they are lucky for this at least....at least this shows they care about them I think! Their partners know they're behavior was wrong. My AH never apologizes EVER. He just ignores the whole situation. I ask him, "what do you feel about your behavior last night"???? He either says nothing, or says "sorry"....that's it. NO heartfelt anything. He never comes to me and apologizes. I think one time in 25 years he did! One time!!!!! You see my AH is really a jerk. He's cold, unfeeling, uncompassionate and I just don't even like him anymore. At all. SO........

I will try to make my world peaceful, serene, I will try to become a better more gentle person through all this! I love your analogy of the flood! Great! And the bubble!!!!!

I hope your significant other is getting help now!!!!!

Love,
Inga

Fairlee · Senior Member

Hi Inga (my spell check made your username "zing" - I thought that was funny :))

You will be so glad you reached out on this board. What you have written, many (probably most) here can relate. There is so much experience and wisdom here and so many others that have walked a similar road. My AH is not verbally abusive, but I don't give him much of a chance anymore because I do not engage. Pretty much he comes home, drunk, watches tv and goes to bed while the kids and I do our thing. It's not my ideal, it makes me sad and resentful, but I have accepted the first step, that I am powerless over alcohol and it is not my fault. I realize now that I put up with what I choose, and that is on me. I can't expect him to change just because that is the logical thing to do. There is no logic in alcoholism. For now I choose to stay, using my tools from Al Anon to try to make the most out of each day. I am not happy by any means, but it is my choice for now.

I am so glad you are here and so glad you are going to meetings ( they are my lifeline! ) Keep coming back! And no, my opinion is that you do not deserve any of this, but hopefully as you grow in Al Anon you can make a better way for yourself :) hugs!!!!

joker · Senior Member

I can so relate to what your enduring. I had a bf once and I endured verbal abuse from him when he was drunk and it broke me down so badly. I finally said I need help for me. I went to a domestic violence group and shared what I was enduring. I also spoke with a domestic violence counselor, and even talked to my psychiatrist about what was happening. I also read all I could on domestic violence and slowly day by day I got stronger. My psychiatrist sent me to a 3 week in patient program and during that time, I met another patient there, a man, and we talked and talked, along with group work required, and I worked out swimming and I saw that I deserve so much better. I deserve a man that will treat me with kindness. I sometime wonder about what ever happened to him, as he saved my life just by talking to me and listening. I came out of my program a new person. I was so strong and determined to get out of this relationship. I went and got a restraining order in court and talked to the court about the verbal abuse and I was granted a 2 week restraining order. I had him served and gave the police a copy of the order. He was so mad, he left the house in a flash. He was sober that day but I did not care. I had enough of the drinking and abuse. I had to go back to court and he showed up and began arguing with the judge, the judge would not accept his bull and granted an order for 6 months more. I was so proud of myself. I went back to court and had the order extended and in total the order was for a year. I was so, so proud of myself for following through. Last I heard, he was with another woman and continues to drink and gamble and work. I also heard the relationship with his current gf is not that great as she does not drink. Not my business, I did what I had to look and protect myself. I know today, I can go back to court and get a restraining order if it comes down to it. I do not need to tolerate abuse anymore. I had also been in another relationship and I went and got an emergency protection order as well. I took my power back as I had enough. Today, I am grateful that if my situation becomes intolerable and abuse is dangerous to me, I can go to court and tell the judge what is happening. I even had called the police on my current BF when he was drunk and being abusive toward me. I had to leave the house says the police and I did. I left for a week. Today, the bf is sober without alcohol for 3 months. I read a lot of messages on this board and applied what I was learning. There is hope and help out there, you just have to look for it. Call the domestic violence center and talk to a counselor and let the secret go. See if there is community domestic violence group in the community. The more support you receive the better. As I learned there is help out there! I wish you the best and know I understand! Hugs!

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene