concerning question need your help! - Al-Anon Family Group

myst n rayne · Newbie

concerning question need your help!

jrtjosey · ~*Service Worker*~

Myst

The AA big book says that it is an allergy or hypersenitivity to alcohol. In my case my husband is a 3rd of 4 generations alcoholic that I know of. He has had the "isms" of alcoholisms even before he had his first drink according to his sisters. They describe him even as a child as bing angry and it was never his fault. It is these things and many others that doctors put together to finally classify it as a disease. Hope this helps.

Josey

Diva · ~*Service Worker*~

myst n rayne, I continue to struggle with this question myself. Sometimes I think calling alcoholism a "disease" is a cop out and an excuse for behavior that in my mind is voluntary. I try to assimilate what others tell me; i.e. it is properly defined as a disease because.......but I tell ya, I am just not sure. I think your analogy regarding your father's cancer is right on.

I choose not to drink. I choose not to smoke. Hmmmm I wonder....Is smoking a disease? If I drink and I can blame it on my "disease," I can do what has become so very popular to do lately; refuse to be responsible for my actions, blaming them instead on something or someone else. I have done a lot of reading on this subject, and continue to shake my head and wonder.

Thanks for your post. It should spark lots of replies. And, come back often.

Diva

lin0606 · ~*Service Worker*~

The 'being an alcoholic' part is a disease, the 'will I drink" part is a choice.

Your A can choose whether or not to drink, yes. But, he can't choose to drink normally. If he drinks, he will soon be experiencing problems associated with his drinking. He has no choice about this.

When I was a teen and young adult, I was a heavy drinker. When I started being unhappy with what drinking was doing to my life, I cut way down. When, later, I got pregnant, I quit altogether, and now I drink when I want to (rarely) and don't when I don't want to. I did this, and had no trouble with any of it, because I am not an alcoholic. When my husband started having trouble with his drinking, he pretended that he wasn't . When he couldn't hide it anymore, he cut down a little on the drinking, and started smoking crack instead. He has always had many of the traits associated with the disease - compulsive, obsessive behaviour; negative outlook; touchiness; moodiness; need to blame others, or circumstances, for problems obviously of his own making. When we met, no outsider, looking at us, could have told which was the alcholic and which wasn't. It was only when we tried to stop that it became clear.

If I were to be drinking a beer while I sat and typed this, it would have no effect on me beyond giving me a mild buzz. I would not need to have another tomorrow, and two or three by the weekend. If my husband were to have a beer right now, within a couple of months, at most, he would be back to out of control drinking. I don't have to use enormous will power, or a support group, or anything else, to not have a drink, I just think "Nah, I won't" and I don't. This is not true of an alcoholic. If it were, why would they drink, when it causes them and everyone they love so much pain? They're not stupid. They are not 'bad' - at least most of the A's I know aren't. They have a physical, mental and spiritual illness.

Ultimately, the way to tell if someone is an A is for them to try to stop drinking. If they can, they are not an alcoholic.

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello Mist - good question , one that bothered me for along time I thought bull I just thought it was an excuse myself. Took me along time to understand what Al-Anon was trying to tell me. I unfortunatley got to see first hand what they were talking about this is a progressive disease it only gets worse never better. Stoping for one day usually amounts to being too sick to drink, or trying to prove to them selves and of course us that they can control thier drinking.

None of this really matters , what matters is how the drinking affects us. We are the ones with the problem and until he says that what he's doing is causing HIm a probem "IT ISN'T"

Al-Anon will help u put this in perspective what I have learned here is what a disease does to me (exactly what al anon had been trying to tell me for yrs ) my husb also has been a cancer vicitim 2 in the last 5 yrs and I imediatly go into hover mode- what can I do to help - how can i stop him from hurting ? well nothing actually. so i have to let go and just simply be there to support him. I am powerless over alcoholism period , nothing i do or say will stop the drinking begging - shaming them- threatning and unltimatums don't work . This is his problem not mine to fix .

If u can just accept that u have n o control over him or what he does your life will get easier.

good luck Hope u are attending f2f meetings for yourself. Louise

UncleLou · Senior Member

I'm an alcoholic in recovery and I'm convinced it's a disease. First of all, if it was a 'choice' I would have simply avoided the last few years of hell I put myself through by just stopping. Secondly, I learned at the rehab I attended that the alcoholic's brain is wired differently than normal people when it comes to the effects of alcohol. Here's how it was explained: everyone has what is considered a 'normal' level of dopamine in their system, which can vary and effect our moods. Higher levels, whether attained through natural activities (eating, recreation, being in love, etc) or through a substance (alcohol, cocaine, etc) make us feel 'good.' When the activity is stopped the levels in a 'normal' person go back to a level that is normal for them. In the alcoholic's system, once the effect of the alcohol is over, the dopamine levels go lower than 'normal' and stay there for quite a while. The natural inclination for the alcoholic is to get another drink just to get his dopamine level back to normal. Of course this is all done without conscience thought. The craving and compulsion to drink overrides the logical thought of the alcoholic. We become delusional and rationalize why it's OK to get that next drink. We believe the lies we tell ourselves (and end up lying to those around us) We have no more will over control of these situations than a diabetic can will his blood sugar to maintain a normal level.

Once I accepted the fact that I had a disease and it was not a matter of will power and was beyond self control, I was able to ask for and accept the help I needed to recover.

There is much more to this but I tried to keep my take on it brief.

Lou

John · ~*Service Worker*~

The American Medical Society has 3 tenets by which a diease is defined.

1. It's Chronic - Marked by long duration, by frequent recurrence over a long time, and often by slowly progressing seriousness. The sufferer has it whether they want it or not.

2. It's Progressive - Without ongoing, continuous treatment it continues to get worse, never better.

3. It's potintially fatal - to the person who suffers from it.

Alcoholism is considered a diease by the American Medical Society simply because it meets the same 3 tenets any other listed diease meets.

Like most dieases Alcoholism can be placed in remission if properly treated, but a flair up in the symptoms isn't a indicator that it was placed in remission, often it just shows the alcoholic was on his/or best behavior as long as they could be and the alcoholism rared its head again, full bloom.

John

-- Edited by John at 23:32, 2006-03-09

Diva · ~*Service Worker*~

Following is a quote from Thomas R. Hobbs, Ph.D., M.D., who is medical director of the Physicians’ Health Programs (PHP). The PHP, a program of The Educational and Scientific Trust of the Pennsylvania Medical Society.

"Despite studies validating the disease model of alcoholism, controversy still exists. In his 1989 book, Diseasing of America, social psychologist Stanton Peele, Ph.D., argues that AA and for-profit alcohol treatment centers promote the "myth" of alcoholism as a lifelong disease. He contends that the disease concept "excuses alcoholics for their past, present, and future irresponsibility" and points out that most people can overcome addiction on their own. He concludes that the only effective response to alcoholism and other addictions is "to recreate living communities that nurture the human capacity to lead constructive lives.

Surprisingly, Dr. Peele’s view that alcoholism is a personal conduct problem, rather than a disease, seems to be more prevalent among medical practitioners than among the public. A recent Gallop poll found that almost 90 percent of Americans believe that alcoholism is a disease. In contrast, physicians’ views of alcoholism were reviewed at an August 1997 conference held by the International Doctors of Alcoholics Anonymous (IDAA). A survey of physicians reported at that conference found that 80 percent of responding doctors perceived alcoholism as simply bad behavior."

Whether alcoholism is or is not a disease is not the point I am attempting to make here. I am only showing that the controversary still rages.

Interesting discussion. Diva

Ria · Senior Member

I personally believe alcoholism is a disease, to drink is a choice. Before Al-anon I thought like you. I've considered if it was a way of absolving themselves of personal responsibility but I no longer believe that today. Also, I could not comprehend WHY, if something was causing a person so much emotional pain/physical illness/devastating consequences they would CHOOSE to continue in the behaviour. This is a subject still surrounded by controversy. I can only share my opinion. I made the comparison between other 'medical' conditions. As you said alcoholism can be controlled but there are also many other diseases which are remissive or can be managed (some forms of cancer, diabetes etc). There are also other illnesses which are progressive. I believe it states in the Big Book that alcoholism is a disease that can be arrested but not cured. I'm sure that any person diagnosed with other conditions, if told they could stay well by following 12steps, practising a program daily and attending a few meetings a week would welcome the opportunity. Sadly, from what I understand, alcoholism is the only disease that tells you 'you haven't got one'. I suffer from a non-life threatening condition that has seriously diminished the quality of my life and before I knew my partner was even drinking I was drawing similarities and finding parallels therby recognising 'sickness' just not knowing which one.

I've also heard that stopping may not be the hard part, staying stopped is. For example, binge drinkers who may not drink for months. I genuinely believe for an alcoholic there is a mental obsession as well as a physical compulsion to drink. I saw both 1st hand at work in my alcoholic. He accepted he had a problem and wanted to stop but couldn't do it on willpower alone and he is an incredibly strong-willed person (to the point where it actually caused him problems working a program).

I've heard and read biological reasons regarding dopamine levels. There was also something about the chemical breakdown process in an alcoholic which actually produces a substance that increases the physical compulsion. (Sorry I can't be more specific.) Then of course there's the genetic argument, it running through the generations. I have personal experience of this. However, I've also known A's who appear to be the only one with the problem in otherwise quite functional families.

There is a Zen proverb in ODAT or C2C that states "If you understand, things are as they are. If you do not understand, things are as they are." I stopped trying to figure out his illness and starting concentrating on mine and somewhere along the way I found an answer I can live with. I hope you do too.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.