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Without being long winded, til later, I have a question or two. My best friends wife, who is my best female friend, is an alcoholic. Before I go into details of why and whatnot, my big question is, what can my friend do legally to force her to get help. Her alcoholism is putting a huge strain on their marriage and doing dmagae to their two children, 10 and 14. She thinks everything is OK and that she can fix it herself. But of course, we all know thats not gonna happen. If she doesnt get help, something bad WILL happen. Then it will be too late and everyone will feel regret.
My GF suggested her and I should go to a meeting. Im reluctant because I really dont see how it can help me. No matter what we do, say, dont do, dont say, nothing changes. All it is doing is destroying a two young childrens view of their mother and creating emotional and menatl damge that may not show for years to come.
Welcome Dafffypuck You certainly are a good friend who appears to have a great deal of wisdom about the disease of alcoholism.
As you may know alcoholism is a devastating, chronic, fatal disease that can be arrested but never cured. We did not cause, it cannot control it and cannot cure it.
As you have noted the disease wrecks havoc on family members who are indeed powerless over the drinker and the disease. Once we accept this important fact we discover that we can search out help for ourselves and family. Alanon face to face meetings held in most communities will offer that help to your friend and alateen meetings would be great for the children The hot line number can be found in the white pages. You could go to the meeting and pick up some free literature as wells as a meeting list so you and your wife will feel comfortable speaking about it .
I can assure you that there is little your friend can do to stop the insanity of the drinking partner . I have called the police, attempted to commit to hospitals, threatened and talked to no avail.We are indeed powerless over people, places and things. With the help of alanon tools I did manage to regain my sanity , my voice and my life. The courage, serenity and wisdom of the program enabled my family to survive and thrive regardless of the alcoholic's activity. I urge you to suggest alanon to your friend There is hope
Thank you for the reply. Thats just it, suggestions go in one ear and out the other. In this particular case, alcohol is just the band aid to mask other pain. The alcohol is secondary to another problem that cant be addressed until the alcohol issue is taken care of. Can he legally commit her to a program against her will because it is causing damge to the children?
They can certainly consult a Dr to explore his options, as I did. I know I have tried it all unsuccessfully .
The hospital usually held the person until they were sober and if the could answer a few questions like "who is president" they were deemed sane and released. I have heard of the courts offering a rehab program in lieu of imprisonment.
Taking the focus off the alcoholic's behavior and working on new constructive ways to respond to the disease, is extremely important. Alanon offers that information and a support group as well.
Daffypuck - welcome to MIP! Glad you found us and glad you shared with us.
I am not aware of legal action that can be imposed to another adult, unless it's from the court process. However, every state/city/county has their own laws/rules/ordinances so my best suggestion is to contact a lawyer for that type of question.
I believe you and your friend would benefit from the program/meetings in Al-Anon. Al-Anon gives those of us who care about an alcoholic tools to cope and a deeper understanding of the disease and how it affects everyone, including children.
Keep coming back here - you are not alone!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Aloha Daffypuck and welcome to the board. Networking with others who know this disease first hand is very important and something is required...listening with an open mind. Alcoholism is an ancient disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions. It predates the life of the Christ by several thousands of years much has been tried to arrest it and what has worked mostly is when the alcoholic surrenders completely to experienced help...Recovering alcoholics working with practicing alcoholics. Those who know are those who work the program of recovery steps and traditions and who also network with other recovering alcoholics and addicts. AA and the Al-Anon Family Groups are made up of those who have been attracted to recovery by those who have initiated and continued that process.
Being new to Al-Anon the best I could do was sit and listen and ask for help from the fellowship while taking suggestions from those who came before me including my sponsorship. Surrendering my efforts to fix and cure my qualifiers ceased and I stayed to be fixed myself. The journey has been long and miraculous and I will be forever grateful to both programs and of course MIP. Please stick around and keep coming back often. Your questions will find answers here. (((hugs)))
The thing about alcoholism is that it pulls everyone around it into the chaos and insanity. Our own thinking becomes distorted and we often fail to recognize it. That's why we, who care for the alcoholic, go into our own recovery. Since there are two children involved, it is even more important that they have wise and emotionally strong adults around them. So for those adults to have the tools of Al-Anon could be very important and helpful for those kids. In addition, we cannot make the alcoholic stop drinking, but if we have our own recovery going, we set the groundwork for the optimum chance that the alcohol might realize the damage caused by her drinking and decide to seek recovery. Oftentimes the things we try can push alcoholics even farther from recovery, paradoxically, so it's helpful for us to understand that and step back. I hope you'll read the threads on these boards and get an idea of what Al-Anon has to offer, and try out some meetings. Many of us have found the tools to cope with alcoholism here - nobody should have to do this alone.
I agree Mattie, I basically went insane from my husband's alcoholism. That is the only way to put it. I was not thinking straight at all. I wish I dove into Al-Anon sooner....it would've saved everyone a lot of heartache and grief including my children. Al-Anon is not for the drinker to stop drinking, but for the people affected by it. It took me years to bring myself to realize that I too needed some type of recovery from the insanity we were living. It helps tremendously just knowing I am not alone and did not cause this disease.
Daffy, I will say that when we did an intervention for my AH a few years back and he was sent off to a rehab out of state for a month, he came home and didn't follow through with AA or any type of outpatient program. He started up drinking again within 6 months. So he basically was talked into going away. Fast forward 3 years later....he surrendered and attempted to get help on his own with no one forcing him into it. We made suggestions, but the onus was all on him this time. He has been sober a little over 6 months and I notice a huge difference from the last time he attempted recovery. I'm not sure exactly what made him decide to really immerse himself into a program, but I think it was a combination of things...1 being he is over 50 now and was feeling really physically ill from drinking every day for over 30 years, 2 we were forced to sell our home because of his lack of work. I don't believe anything I did or said made him get sober. Take what you like and leave the rest. Good luck to you and your friends, it's a difficult journey to say the least.
Thanks for all of the replies yall. I dont understand why, outside of the drinker causing harm to themselves or someone else, you cant forcibly admit them. He cant legally kick out of the house, he cant separate her (unless she agrees as well), he cant call the police, because all it takes is a suggestion by her that he layed a hand her and hes off to jail. His hands are tied completely and totally. His oldest daughter hates her Mom. Well, hates what she is doing, but still loves her. My GF suggested we should go to a meeting to possibly learn ways to better deal with the drinker.
We have learned that the only way, the only time, a drinker will quit, is when they hit their bottom. All of them have a different place that is their bottom so never know for sure what we are dealing with. My hubby's bottom was basically his ego. He got a DUI and even though he swore his drinking never hurt anyone and he was never a drunk driver, when he blew a 0.24 on the police officer's machine, he knew he was busted and then he became in his mind what he never intended on being... an alcoholic like his dad and his brothers. There was absolutely nothing I could do to him either. I could protect myself and make my own plans that did not include him, but that was about all. We can't forcibly admit them because they have rights and freedoms too.... and besides, it doesn't work. They have to want it and they never do until they hit their bottom. You could point out to her that she is hurting her kids, and she will agree with you, until she has to choose, and she will always choose the booze and deny hurting the kids.... until she finds her bottom and WANTS to quit herself. If there was something that worked, we would have figured it out by now. All we know is that it doesn't matter what we think, what we feel..... The alcoholic has to want to quit.
I'm sure you have heard of "tough love". We can help them find their bottom by not being in the way when they are spiraling down.... and we let them hit bottom. That means we have to be out of the way or else we get pulled down with them. It is extremely hard to do and extremely hard to not feel guilty while doing it. AlAnon is full of people who are going through this same thing or who have gone through it. We learn how to deal better with them and with our own internal feelings. And we learn how we have been affected by being around them. We learn we have dealt with lies and manipulation and we have feelings too. We learn we don't have to be tough all the time and we can let down when we are with people who understand us and what we are doing and did. We learn to forgive ourselves for being so hard on ourselves.
The reason we can't forcibly commit them is because it's not legal - they have violated no laws. Tragic though the drinking is, it is not illegal. Your friend can separate from his wife in a legal sense, and can leave the situation. It would be wise for him to consult a lawyer before taking action, but he is not stuck with her in the same house and in the marriage forever if he wants to separate. If he wants a divorce, the property will be divided as is legally required, and it's very possible that the house will have to be sold and therefore she will not remain in it. So it's not true that his hands are "tied completely and totally." He can't do any of this instantly, but he can certainly do it, and it's done every day. If he is contemplating splitting up, he would be wise to document her alcoholism, keeping a day by day journal, with as much external proof as presents itself. That's what my lawyer recommended and what I did. Then if, for instance, he wants primary custody, it's not just he-said-she-said. But there are ways to make all these things happen.
On one hand, he wants a divorce, but deep in his heart he doesnt. Its absolutely killing him, and me, what it is doing to their 10 & 14 yr old. The kids dont understand. As a parent, he wants to protect his children. At some points, that protection instinct supercedes his love for his wife to the point that he comes very close to hurting her. He does restrain, but the stress is there. Her actions recently, almost cost him his career. Somehow, somewhere, someone called in to police that he had a gun to her head while they were coming back from dinner. She was drunk, he was sober. To this day, he has no clue how/who that was passed to police. He had no gun on him, he did nothing, yet that was the story the police had. Rock bottom is when he loses his job, his kids are emotionally damaged and he hurts/kills his wife. She is so selfish, while in this place in her life, that she will never hit rock bottom. I see only 2 options, family intervention or legally taking custody of the kids on the grounds she admits herself. In all reailty, its her postpardom depression that preceded the booze that is the real problem. But before she can fix the depression, we have to get her off the booze.
Hi again,
Regarding the family intervention..... they rarely work because there is little to hold over her head as a consequence that can't be done anyway. If her hubby leaves her, he can leave her any time. He can take the kids to an extended stay at family or a hotel and let her sit home by herself and her bottle. He can't stay away forever because she is their legal mother and she has rights to her children.
You say "she is so selfish and she will never hit rock bottom"..... that is why I say we step aside and let the consequences happen to them. We try to never put pillows down to soften the fall.
If he legally takes the kids "on the grounds that she admits herself", then what does he do when she goes to rehab, comes home and starts drinking again? Unless she does it because she has hit bottom (and maybe him telling her he is finished with her is it), she won't STAY dry. She will go through the hoops until she has the freedom to go back to drinking again. She needs the help of her "village" (AA is her "it takes a village"). A lot of alcoholics that are not ready to stop, but need to make it look like they are, will go to to many rehabs and bleed the family treasury dry with the costs.
As a parent, of course he wants to protect the kids. And you can tell him that he can always remarry her if she decides to get well and stay well.
But, you see, the decision really is with her. Can she get well for herself? This disease is progressive. It doesn't go away and it doesn't just stay the same. It always gets worse. The only thing that will stop it is total abstinence. And they go to AA for support for that.
You say the kids don't understand..... they can go to AlATeen. That is a branch of AlAnon for the kids. A lot of anger gets expressed at an AlaTeen meeting. They talk with other kids who are in the same predicament as they are. They get a lot of comfort from those meetings.
I really do feel for you. This is a baffling disease. It is contrary to everything good in humans. It takes the opposite emotion to live with it. {Want to be close? Have to give space...... Want to help? Have to let go. } Keep on asking questions and keep on learning.
Al-Anon meetings have really been a life-line for me. After months of listening to the shares and posing situations for others to help with their experience, strength and hope I can more clearly see the path I need to take and the boundaries I need to set for myself to feel better whether my alcoholics are drinking or not. The answers just kind of "come" after awhile and the situation, although very bad does not seem so acute because I am better caring for myself and my decisions. My daughter also attends Al-Anon and shares regularly now and I can see that she is feeling better as well.
Trying to force a response or rush a decision has never worked out well for me in the past and I trust that the same holds true for the future. Today I can think with a clearer, more objective mind and really see this disease for what it is and know that it's ok to love my qualifers and still hate the disease. For me, more meetings and educating myself=less pain and confusion.
