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Well thanksgiving proved to be a tipping point for me. I am needing advice on how to check my motives in a few ultimatums I gave him because I feel like in telling him specificallly what he needs to do to keep our family together 'or else' feels like I might be controlling or trying make him do my will.
I told him that if he wanted me and the kids in his life going forward that drinking is not an option...no weaning..no 'weekend only' beer to go with gametime...nothing....period... And since he is of the mind that he is suffering from depression and that is why he is compelled to binge the way he does, I told him he needs to start seeing a therapist asap to work that out NOW. I told him he clearly has issues that have absolutely nothing to do with me and because he doesnt have the insurance or money to go to rehab, if he wants to stay a part of our lives he will work regular AA meetings into his schedule to help him quit...I told him if at any point he renigs or if I get the feeling that he's not doing what he's supposed to do Im moving on with my life and divorcing him...taking the house and washing my hands of the marriage. Ive never given him an explict ultimatum before and honestly dont even know if it will have any affect on things but I do mean everything I said...While I still love him with all my heart over the past year I have slowly come to love myself more. My question is this, as long as I mean what I say and follow thru is it ok to say that to him?... Sometimes I have a hard time telling the difference between what is a control move versus setting boundaries.
Controlling is telling to someone what they need to do or should do. Boundaries are for you- they are what you plan to do if someone crosses the boundaries you have set.
Sorry to butt in, but I have a hard time with this. So if she said "If you drink again I am leaving" that's somehow controlling? What if he's a dangerous human being?
There are kids involved and I think she should feel good doing whatever she wants to for the sake of her and their children, without the guilt of worrying about whether or not she's being controlling.
Yes, a boundary is really about what we will do. I've found it's best to have a plan laid out for myself before setting a boundary, so that I'll be able to follow through with it. Because in my experience, as soon as I've set a boundary, the person violates it to see if he can. Then if I'm not ready, or if I have second thoughts, he knows he can behave badly with impunity, and things actually get worse. I set a number of those boundaries and didn't follow through with them when the time came, and it was chaos. I wish you all kinds of serenity and self-protectiveness going forward!
Its a boundary if its not a threat. The difficulty I have with major lines in the sand is how consistent one has to be, pretty much forever as addiction is a long term thing. It still has to be up to them to want better or different though, over that we have no control. Horses and water. Ive had to accept that in choosing to reconcile with my ah. My boundaries are he doesn't drink in our home, or come back drunk, consequences are having him arrested. It keeps me sane and I am hopeful that with enough sober moments he may have a stronger pull towards obtaining a true recovery.hopeful but not invested. It really is a day at a time and I completely agree with matties experience of boundaries being instantly tested. I tried big then started small. Bit like training small creatures lol. You sound like you know what you want and don't want. That's great. Keep on keeping on!
Just when I thought he had said all he could say to hurt me he tells me the reason why he was always drunk when asking me for sex is because he wasnt attracted to me anymore.....I just ignored him as I kept looking for an online meeting...and as my luck would have it I had just as I fou d one it was closing. I have so much rage and hurt in my heart right now for what he just said to me I cant stop crying. Like a freakin baby in the bathroom by myself. Im so mad that I let him trick me into beieving he could change. Even though I know its the alcohol talkin it still hurts bcuz alcohol onlg makes u say what ur scared to say while sober
All this bcuz he came home excited about his new job and talking about how much better he feels now that he's back to work ( 4th job in a years time bcuz of his drinking and skipping work) I asked him about the hours bcuz being a truck driver keeps him out of the house for 12-16 hrs a day...I wanted to express to him that going to AA and findi g sobriety needs to also be a priority along with earning an income if he wants to keep his family and of course that set him off. But I dont care bcuz he thought he was gonna skip.that part claiming "see Im better now that Ive got a job...I only drank bcuz I was unhappy" blah blah blah..." I only drank bcuz of the problems in our marriage....and round and round goes the blame
((Hopefull)) Alcoholics are great manipulators and will say anything in order to engage you in an argument. Validate yourself, to yourself, list your assets and all that you have to be grateful for and know deep in your heart that you are a an attractive woman. He was drunk during sex because he is an alcoholic. That is the truth
I love boundaries. It simply boggles my mind that i lived a good 37 years of my life without having ANY at all, or even knowing what they were!!!!
The way I got my head around them was to imagine an actual physical barrier...my "personal space". (I love Dirty Dancing so, 'this is my dance space, that is your dance space" lol). Now, I get to decide what is acceptable within my space; I don't get to decide what is acceptable in anyone else's (unless it's someone truly vulnerable like my child or unless someone ASKS for my help etc).
You can imagine it like the boundary fence to your property. If anyone comes into that boundary they have to respect your rules or you have the right to insist that they vacate, right? You CAN'T insist they stay and behave the way you want them to though, and once they leave and are off your property you can't dictate what they do either. This is important because really, if someone's actions, even my life-partner's, aren't directly affecting myself or my child, I have no business telling him what to do. Even if I think i know what he should be doing.
This keeps it simple for me because then, if someone is crossing my boundaries (causing me to feel frightened or hurt or uncomfortable or disrespected etc) within MY space then, they can't be in my space any more. Which means if they won't leave, I will.
Also, I believe it's a myth that people say what they really mean when they are drunk. The alcohol just scrambles ones emotions so all of the resentment and sadness and anger and especially the self hate all comes out at who-ever is close enough to take it on. It's just angry nonsense that ends up hurting the alcoholic just as much when they sober up and realise what they said to someone they care about. Sad for everyone. I like Betty's suggestion- validate yourself and know that whatever hurtful things are said, deep down they are his feelings about himself, not about you. No-one deserves to hear that sort of thing from the person that is meant to love them.
Hugs!
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
I love what Betty said and support it fully. Alcoholics have drunk sex because they're alcoholics. These types of comments are designed to drag you down. Please don't let it. I disagree about drunken feelings being true...im a double and when drunk I say whatever crap happens to pop into my head. Nothing in alcoholism is real. Stay strong,stay beautiful.
I know it's hard to not believe that what an alcoholic says is truth. I wish I had learned about alcoholism back when I was a teenager, Al Anon would have helped me so much in dealing with my alcoholic father. He told me that I should have never been born, that they should have aborted me, and that the reason his life is crap was because my birth changed his life and set him on a path of regret and despair. Anyway, I believed all that crap for years......until I got into Al Anon. My self esteem was shot and I married an alcoholic (go figure right). Today I know the truth and they are my truths and I have heard this saying and often repeat it to myself, "What other people think of me is none of my business."
What you think of YOU is what matters. What your HP (God) says about you is what matters. Learn to love yourself and work the program and the things the alcoholics say to us won't hurt as much, mainly because you know the truth.
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
The way I got my head around them was to imagine an actual physical barrier...my "personal space". (I love Dirty Dancing so, 'this is my dance space, that is your dance space" lol). Now, I get to decide what is acceptable within my space; I don't get to decide what is acceptable in anyone else's (unless it's someone truly vulnerable like my child or unless someone ASKS for my help etc).
Thank you for this (unless it is someone truly vulnerable like my child) .... Reconfirmed my boundary today and I was able to validate myself.
Thank u all so much for the reminders...I should know better by now than to listen to anything he says when he's been drinking...lately its like he's been going out of his way to say nasty things like that to me and I think this one caught me off guard...kinda like a sucker punch I wasnt prepared for....it actually makes me wonder though if it isnt because he now feels threatened by my new stance and attitude towards him and his drinking...He used to get physical with pushing and shoving (till I had him arrested)....now he just does it with his words....Im by no means where I would like to be with the steps but I have developed a much closer relationship with my God, I stay prayerful and Ive taken a lot from my previous meetings/ readings and this forum. Because of this I feel in a better place to actually set these boundaries and it kinda feels like maybe he's threatened by this? ..like a kid throwing a tantrum because he lacks the ability do do any better right now...emotionally, financially etc. ....not that I think Im above him... as a child of God we all deserve to be treated with respect and dignity but it actually makes me feel better to think of it that way
Beautifully said Hopeful You are correct , we ar all children of God and deserve to be treated with courtesy and respect.
Another Miracle in Progress :)
I think this whole thread is a Miracle in Progress! So glad to see you can reach out for help, and get so much!!
I have been saved so many times from mistreating my wife when I remember that she is also a child of God and deserves dignity and respect. Even when she is passed out on the couch, and when she is coming out of it, it has given me a new relationship with her. She had been sober for two years, and had a relapse a couple of weeks ago, and my treatment of her compared to two years ago was night and day, she and her sponsor noticed and were very thankful, and it helped her so much to regain her self-respect, which takes a huge blow after relapsing.
((Hopeful))
This post and the responses helped me so much. Every single contribution to this post was helpful and useful (I'm going to remember the dirty dancing analogy forever now!). So thank you to all that posted. I was married for 11 years to an alcoholic and I took every nasty comment he said to me when drunk personally. Part of it was because I didn't even realize it was the alcohol talking. None the less I can clearly look back on the dynamics with my AH and I. For us he would say something nasty to get me to react. And I would have an extreme reaction. If he started something by saying something completely insulting I would react (over react) and find the meanest thing I could say back and say it. Then he would flip things around and use what I said as something he could never forgive and all the attention would be off his drinking, his bad behaviour etc and it would all be on me and my reaction to him. The anger and nastiness between us was awful. I got to a point where I was questioning my own sanity. All the while completely oblivious to the fact that he seemed to be two different people and that was because he was two different people. He was a nice, kind, caring husband when he was sober and a nasty, angry, hateful person when he was drunk. Since I have been part of Al anon and this forum I have learned so much about alcoholism and myself.
Around your boundary I think you have to decide what is best for you. We all have different levels of what we can tolerate and how. I went to a therapist because I wanted him to help me decide if I should leave my husband or not. He gave me some helpful support (but didn't tell me what I should do) and directed me to Al Anon. One thing that Al Anon has helped me realize in my situation is that my husband needs to come to the realization he needs help and wants to quit on his own. If I try to force my husband to go to AA or try to force any solution to HIS problem it will fail. I have no control if my husband drinks or not. And trying to "monitor" or control it will only make my life more unmanageable. So I try to bring the focus back to me as Al Anon suggests. In my situation I have stopped telling my husband I will leave if his drinking gets as bad as it was in the past because for me it seemed to be more of a threat. My counsellor told me that I will know when it is time to leave. Inside myself I will know. I don't need to warn, or give chances or anything else. I just need to look at my relationship with a clear head and make the best decision I can for me. THe more meetings I attend, the more positive I am that I will know. for now I use the slogan just for today. And I find that my HP takes care of the rest.
((Hopeful)) - so sorry that your alcoholic is testing the waters/boundaries. They all do it, and I think mine do it for 'sport'. Just to see what will happen. I love QTIP (Quit Taking It Personally) and JADE (Don't Justify, Don't Argue, Don't Defend & Don't Explain). Whether drinking or sober, an untreated alcoholic is still under the influence of the disease which is great than just a physical or mental allergy - it also affects the spirituality and emotions.
My best suggestion is work your program. Make your plan for joy, peace, etc. Get a Sponsor (great help with proper boundaries). Keep the focus on you. Assume nothing and have no expectations. One Day at a Time, One Moment at a Time, One Breath at a Time.
(((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
