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Hello everyone. I'm new here. Please bear with me.
I started dating my ex two and a half years ago. She had told me she used to drink a bottle of wine a night during her previous marriage, but since she met me she hadn't felt the need to. Well, in the next few months I was spending more and more time with her and almost moved in. I saw that she was drinking every night, still, although it was half a bottle a night, and to her that was no big deal and I shouldn't worry. Well, half a bottle every night became one bottle. Sometimes two bottles. Every night. 3 bottles wasn't uncommon on a Saturday or Sunday. I admit I would join her, and it became my habit as well - although I knew when to stop and say enough, and she didn't. She would be loud and obnoxious if we were out and she was drinking - sometimes flirty, which really upset me, and sometimes accusing ME of flirting with others, when I wouldn't even say two words to another woman. If I took her dancing she'd be all over the place, bumping into people and just not caring or thinking about anyone else whatsoever. Her kids would just say "Oh, mom - you're silly" or something like that, but they had to know this wasn't normal, right?!? Some of her relatives told me that she had made a fool of herself at numerous family functions due to her drinking, and that they were concerned about her drinking AND doing so while taking meds. She brushed it off and pointed out all the other people who drank more than her.
Sometimes she'd hit or kick people when she was drunk. Once she kicked me full on at a relative's birthday party, and shoved another person. She got kicked out of the relative's party that night. It was getting bad, and I found myself drinking more to deal with her behavior, which I know is a stupid, stupid thing. I had managed to talk her out of drinking for a bit, and after a couple of days, she'd come home with a bottle. "One won't hurt - we've done well going 2 days without so this is ok", she'd say. No matter what I'd say, that I was concerned or whatever, she brushed it off. She'd lie to me when going out with mutual friends of ours, saying she was fine and drove herself home - when now I'm hearing from those friends that she almost got them all kicked out and had to be driven home.
Then came the arguments. She would come to bed drunk and pick fights with me until 2am. I would tell her that it needed to stop, or I was going to go home and sleep in my own bed because I had to get up for work in the morning. She'd either accuse me of running away, or she'd threaten to OD on her meds (with her kids in the next room, no less), or she'd physically block the door and yell to her kids that I was hitting her if I attempted to move her. Once I made it past her and when I opened my car door, she jumped in the driver's seat and wouldn't let me leave...according to he, it was because I was the drunk one and she loved me too much to let me drive. I threatened to call the police if she wouldn't let me leave. She wouldn't and so I did. The police were shaking their heads at her and had to escort her back into her house, and told me I was completely fine and allowed me to go. More drunken foolishness happened later that night when she called the police again because her car was stolen (her car was in the shop and she was too drunk to remember). Her best friend chewed me out for calling the police, saying I should have just called her. I told my ex that I couldn't take her drunken behavior much longer and that I loved her but I was going to leave if this happened again.
A couple of months late, I attempted to leave during an argument like the above, and she put me in a choke hold. I told her she was choking me and she wouldn't stop. So I laid down, fearful and compliant just to get her to stop. I didn't know what to do anymore. The next morning I left the house early and went in the woods to cry. She called, frantically asking where I was. I told her what she did and she didn't remember - she pleaded with me to come home and said she'd never drink again, throwing all alcohol in the garbage. I went back but never felt the same again, and she was drinking again 2 days later. We had more drunken arguments. Once at a mutual friend's barbeque, she had too much to drink and I told her to ease up. She gave me the nastiest look and put the bottle down. 20 minutes later she was pouring herself another drink and being loud and obnoxious again. Our mutual friend's 10 year old son asked me: "Is she drunk again?", while our mutual friend told me to leave her alone, she's having fun and being happy.
The incidents just kept piling up. Drunk arguments. Her flooding a hotel room when she she turned on the jacuzzi and passed out. Her making an ass out of herself at my own brother's wedding and just about I couldn't take it anymore, and I finally left her a couple of months ago. She texted me two days later saying she hadn't had a drop of alcohol since I left her, yet when I went to her house to get my things that day while she was at work, there were empty beer bottles all around her bed.
I got all sorts of friends saying If you love he, you should have given her a second chance". I feel like for 2.5 years, I tried everything and it just wasn't enough. I gave over a dozen warnings that I would leave. I look online and see things about "learning to cope with a significant other's alcoholism", and now I feel inadequate. Was I supposed to sit there and COPE with that?!? Like that was some measure of my love for her? I would think leaving would be the most loving thing to do. I would think coping would do nothing but give the message that I was ok with it.
I understand that one is supposed to "lovingly detach'. from situations like these, but where do you draw the line? When do you "lovingly LEAVE?" What does it take before leaving is finally ok?!?
-- Edited by Seymore on Saturday 12th of December 2015 04:16:22 PM
-- Edited by Seymore on Saturday 12th of December 2015 04:17:44 PM
-- Edited by Seymore on Saturday 12th of December 2015 04:19:04 PM
-- Edited by Seymore on Saturday 12th of December 2015 04:22:07 PM
There are no guarantees in relationships. You had what sounds like over 50 drunken arguments with her in a 2 year span. Flip that question: What does it take for NOT leaving to be ok? Alanon doesnt really preach or teach rightness or wrongness of staying in or ending relationships with alcoholics. It does focus on YOU, taking care of self, being true to self, and detaching when needed. You obviously had your reasons. The part to work on may rest more in why you are doubting yourself and or gaining insight into how your own needs, wants, and identity were compromised by a relationship with an active alcoholic.
Interesting, I didn't know Alanon worked that way - not preaching what's right and what's wrong. I guess I just feel like I failed. I have just downloaded Courage to Change - someone recommended it to me. Hopefully it gives me more insight in what I need to work on.
-- Edited by Seymore on Saturday 12th of December 2015 04:46:21 PM
Welcome Seymore! I think the only one who can decide when enough is enough is you. I'm glad you found MIP :) Courage to change is a book I think you will really enjoy. Finding a F2F meeting is also a great way to get started on getting "you" back. You are not alone here - many of the things in your post ring true in my life with an active alcoholic...it is almost eerie when I read posts and can find so much familiarity in them, but that is why I keep coming back :)
You are under absolutely zero obligation to stay with an alcoholic. One thing we learn in Al-Anon is the Three C's: You didn't Cause it (alcoholism), you can't Cure it, you can't Control it. You've seen the truth of those already. If there were a way to cure it or control it, the millions of people who have been in relationships with alcoholics would have found a way. So your being with her does nothing to help the alcoholism. Ideally we stay with someone because it is a mutually caring and rewarding relationship. The trouble with alcoholism is that the alcoholic's focus is primarily on the bottle, as you've seen. We, the other person, come second, or further down the line. That's never a recipe for a health relationship.
But as Pinkchip wisely says, the question this all reveals is why we have put our legitimate needs so far down our own list. Al-Anon helps people put the focus back on ourselves, where it should be - because we are the only people we can control. Some people stay with their A's and practice "loving detachment." Some split up with their A's. There is no one right answer. Al-Anon gives us the tools to arrive at the answer that's right for us, and the tools to deal with alcoholism either close up or farther away.
I hope you'll find a face-to-face group in your community. Whether or not you're with your A, the tools of Al-Anon help us understand how the situation got to be what it did, and how to avoid getting it another like it. And alcoholism is so chaotic that it drags everyone into the insanity, and so we can use our own recovery to get our thoughts and emotions and responses back into perspective. I hope you'll read through the posts here, find a meeting (there are also online meetings here), get the literature, and keep coming back. Take good care of yourself.
Thank you for your kindness and not judging me, everyone. My best friend has been clean for 15 years and told me last night that staying with someone like her has far less of a chance to help her than leaving her did. And leaving not only her, but her 3 kids, killed me to do. I wish I could just focus on me and absolutely block her out of my life (phone, facebook and email are all blocked) and stop looking back so I can move forward. Dwelling is not productive. I will look up face to face groups and see what I can find. Thank you again.
EDIT: It looks like there are no meetings near me, but right now I have the literature to read and this great place. I was also wondering how you deal with the guilt of leaving an AH, after turning your back on them and refusing to enable them any longer? I'm wracked with the guilt.
-- Edited by Seymore on Saturday 12th of December 2015 07:01:59 PM
If there is no meeting for you to attend in person, you may want to check out online meetings. There is a link to them on the top left corner of the home page. Many have found this useful. Keep coming back.
Hi Seymore Welcome. You have received many great suggestions so I would like to answer your one question :"How do we deal with the guilt of leaving the A" .
The answer to clearing up the wreckage of the past; the guilt, the resentments, the anger and fear, rest in working the 12 Steps of AA ourselves.
Meetings, a sponsor , the slogans and the Steps are the key to freedom Please keep coming back.
On line meetings are held in the chat room at:
9 PM EST Mon-Sat 10 AM EST Sat & Sun 7 PM EST Sunday
Thanks so much! I will see if I can make Monday night :) I'm kind of excited :)
I felt so much like I was going crazy - like I was overreacting. Her friend telling me calling the police wasn't necessary, our mutual friend telling me to leave her alone and that she was just having fun...and after I left, I still had friends of hers (and even one of her PATIENT'S wives) messaging me, harassing me and telling me she was wonderful and I couldn't handle commitment. When we were together people told me "Eh, she likes wine. Who doesn't? She's not an alcoholic, you're overreacting." I still do feel like I'm going crazy sometimes. I hope this helps.
-- Edited by Seymore on Saturday 12th of December 2015 08:43:38 PM
Seymore embrace alanon with both arms
Even if you have to travel some. Ftf mtgs
Help so much. You do not need to say a word
Until you are ready.
You will learn to keep the unhealthy people
Away from you so you can grow and change.
Its all about you getting better on the inside
No matter what anyone else is saying or
thinking. There are plenty of enablers and
codependents out there.
The wisdom in alanon is not to make any major
Changes for 6-12 months unless there is
Abuse. i think you Did the right thing for you.
That sounds Very dangerous having any
communications with Her. You could end up
In jail.
Thank you Miranda. The closest one is half an hour away, and not to mention only a few blocks from my ex's house. It would appear my HP has a sense of humor. I really would rather do it online for now, then see if I want to drive an hour to the next nearest one.
I had read about the 6-12 months. I hung on for over 30. I wanted to make sure I could leave saying I tried as hard as I could. There were plenty of other issues as well and I am trying to deal with the aftermath of it all.
Welcome Seymore to MIP - glad you found us and glad you've joined in.
Alcoholism is a progressive disease that affects every aspect of a person. The disease also affects those who live with or love them as it bleeds over in the entire home/environment. I would suggest you read back over your post as if you were another person, a friend or a cousin and see if that helps you out.
We tend to tolerate a bunch of craziness and drama as a result of loving an Alcoholic. Often we are not even aware of what we've accepted as normal until we find some peace through this program. We do not judge any body and we certainly don't offer advice for other's issues. We just share our experience, strength and hope.
I think you will enjoy the meetings here - it's a great group of folks who work the program wanting peace, serenity and recovery. Keep coming back and welcome to the family!!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I am still with my A husband. I am not willing to say what will be the "last straw" regarding when/if I will decide to leave. All I have done thus far is put aside some money that he can't get to (and I have calmly informed him of this - I work, it is part of MY money). I also have a plan for what I will do. But, until the day arrives that I decide to leave (if it ever arrives), I take it one day at a time. Basically, I start each day saying, "Am I ready to leave today?" Despite multiple things that keep coming up, so far, the answer is still "no" for me.
__________________
I can throw all the fits, all the dishes, the telephone and anything else I want at the Alcoholics and in the end all I have done is teach them how to catch my BS.
Sure wish you could go to some face 2 face meetings because I am not sure I would have been committed to the program without it. Just like this site the people in my meetings are the so supporting and nurturing. I travel over 30 minutes to some of the meetings. I understand the proximity to your ex doesn't feel right for you.. At any rate, don't give up you will find the support you need in Al-anon...
Another book to download would be "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Drews. It has helped a lot of people. I travel to all of my meetings. Some are a quick 20 minutes away. Others are 30 minutes away. They are worth the trip and the drive home with all those thoughts and serenity floating through my head is priceless.
I left my alcoholic husband on November 3rd. I felt EXTREME guilt over it. How could I leave a sick person?! What I realized is I was sick, and that statement right there proved it. He was sucking me into his black hole of financial problems, legal problems, and emotional abuse. My heart still struggles with the decision, but my brain tells me it was the right thing.
Interestingly enough, he is now 23 days sober and in a halfway house. GO FIGURE, right?
Another book to download would be "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Drews. It has helped a lot of people. I travel to all of my meetings. Some are a quick 20 minutes away. Others are 30 minutes away. They are worth the trip and the drive home with all those thoughts and serenity floating through my head is priceless.
Wouldn't that be for someone who is coping with an AH WHILE being with them? Or a book on how to simply live with with an AH? Because I am DONE with my AH. There were many more issues (although the booze was a major factor), and I don't believe she is making any progress - she is already with/looking for the next person who will put up with her, as far as I know.
Bloodshotbetty wrote:
I left my alcoholic husband on November 3rd. I felt EXTREME guilt over it. How could I leave a sick person?! What I realized is I was sick, and that statement right there proved it. He was sucking me into his black hole of financial problems, legal problems, and emotional abuse. My heart still struggles with the decision, but my brain tells me it was the right thing.
Interestingly enough, he is now 23 days sober and in a halfway house. GO FIGURE, right?
How do you feel about the fact that he's 23 days sober? What goes through your head?
-- Edited by Seymore on Sunday 13th of December 2015 07:01:53 PM
Go to the gettingthemsoberdotcom website and read through a few chapters that are posted there and then you can see if it resonates with you. The problem with alcoholism is that you are affected even though you are not with them any more. That is why it is a family disease. When I realized how affected I was I got really angry. I always figured it was his disease and I didn't have to deal with it.... I found out that just being in his line of fire affected me in a very bad way. It affected me emotionally and psychologically in a very bad way. Even if he was no longer in my life, I would be badly affected by alcoholism.
I left my alcoholic husband on November 3rd. I felt EXTREME guilt over it. How could I leave a sick person?! What I realized is I was sick, and that statement right there proved it. He was sucking me into his black hole of financial problems, legal problems, and emotional abuse. My heart still struggles with the decision, but my brain tells me it was the right thing.
Interestingly enough, he is now 23 days sober and in a halfway house. GO FIGURE, right?
How do you feel about the fact that he's 23 days sober? What goes through your head?
-- Edited by Seymore on Sunday 13th of December 2015 07:01:53 PM
Such a mixture of emotions. I'm happy for him, because he seems like he is TRULY working the program. But I am sad and resentful because it took me leaving for it to happen. I hate that me leaving was his "rock bottom". If only he had gone sooner...if only I had left sooner...would we have been able to save our marriage?
Those thoughts cause resentment. And guess what, I am resentful! Struggling to detach now that he is sober. And not just sober...but WORKING the steps and remorseful and taking responsibility. And it makes my recovery that much harder. Every day is a challenge and everyday I have to wake up and commit myself to this program.
I hear you. After I left and blocked my ex, she used everything she could to get to me. Trying to get friends and family to contact me, once getting my cousin to try to contact me so she could tell me her (my ex's) father was in the hospital and would die that night, and could I come babysit her grown kids...she really knew how to tug those heartstrings. 2 weeks later I never saw an obituary. Was it a lie? I don't know. And she went on with the "poor me, Seymore left me and my kids and I don't know why, what a jerk" to everyone and took ZERO accountability. She won over three of my relatives via Facebook who never even met her. I asked them to please cut contact with her and they refuse. It's like hell. Meanwhile I've lost her, her 3 kids who LOVED me, and about a dozen or so mutual friends. Why do I have to be the one to suffer while she points fingers at me? Why do I have to do any work and go to Alanon or anything? It's so frustrating and I have plenty of resentment as well!
And I knew she wouldn't change because of me. She had kids and wouldn't do it for them, and her world revolved around them. Silly of me to think I could fix it. Yet I still wonder what if...what if I left sooner...and all of that. It's thought consuming and pointless and I want to get past that.
-- Edited by Seymore on Monday 14th of December 2015 09:54:13 PM
I packed my two daughters and myself up with the help of my dad and moved out this past saturday. we have had some of the most peaceful happy nights since leaving. until last night when AH called and we went spiraling back down his lecture of what a bad person I am and how I have hurt him. We are going to family counseling starting next wednesday. I lost my cookies last night over the guilt for leaving. I know life for my children and myself will be so much better off without him constantly in our face drunk, but love hurts and especially when he is sober he is an amazing man, father and husband. I am now dealing with his entire family turning their backs on me because I left their poor baby boy all alone and didn't stick in there and fight for my marriage. What a bad person i am. GUILT GUILT GUILT IS ALL I FEEL RIGHT NOW! I have to remind myself through the hurt that if we went back it would just be the same thing over and over again. I too am new here and we do not have alanon where I live so this is my only outreach for help.
Welcome to MIP Savannah - glad you found us and glad you joined and shared.
There are meetings here twice a day - see the top left for the times as well as a link to the meeting room.
So sorry that you and your kids are affected by the disease - let go of that guilt - never feel bad for taking care of yourself and your kids!
(((Hugs)))
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thank you hotod snd iamhere, and everyone else too! AH has decided after a long weekend of trying to just drink beer because his liver enzymes came back a little high last week at his check up and going on his usual whiskey bender last night and calling and calling over and over and texted my dad to make sure that he knew AH was paying our cell phone, car ins, credit report repair fee and if the girls needed anything he's do his best to help but he just wanted to make sure my dad was the one supporting us financially and not another man. My dad basically responded with that is my child, my baby, my only daughter and my only granddaughters for which as a father i would spend my last dime to make sure she and those girls were ok and if you are feeling the need to make sure I am the one supporting them then there is obviously some degree of guilt for not doing what you need to be doing for your children as a father. You need to get sober for yourself and those girls. Leave your marriage to my daughter out of the equation and if it is going to work or not. so now AH has decided to check into the hospital to dry out.
DRY OUT???? So i am here thinking, okay, if you go dry out we aren't coming home to an angry dry drunk who will harbor anger and resentment towards me and your children. How do I look at this broken man who is going to get dried out and tell him he has to do this for himself and then our kids and our marriage is over but i am going to be there 100% to support him in every way I can so we can coparent together and have a decent relationship as these girls parents without crushing him? How do I get him to understand that in no way do i want him to think i'm not coming home no matter what you do so don't worry about getting sober. I want him to understand it has to be for him, he has to really want it for it to work and then we have to get to AA or find him a support system outside of the person that he see's right now as the one who broke his heart and the reason he is where he is right now.
Well, my AX showed up unexpectedly at my place last night. Claimed she gave me my space for 3 months and now she wants to talk. Also claimed she didn't know what she did wrong aside from drinking (claimed everything she did wrong was related to alcohol), and that she's been in AA for 2.5 months, but the way she made it sound was that she was doing it because I had left. Not for her kids, because I left. And it never occurred to her that it was too late? To get help WHILE we were together? I asked her to leave my place and she fought me on it, begging to simply talk.
Well it wasn't simply talking. It was her accusing me of things, telling me she knows that I told my family nasty things about her (4 people in my family, who have never even met her, are on her side) and she forgives me. She kept coming in close and I asked her to back off but she wouldn't. She put my arms around her and I pulled them away and asked for her to stop touching me, but she would always touch me again. Begging, pleading, telling me she had a sponsor and a therapist now and could I work it out because she was trying.
It sounded SO convincing. I told her I would need a couple of days to think it over. I talked with friends and family and they reminded me how she created a rift between my mother and her own family members and is destroying us. They told me that she needs to be attending AA and working at it hard for at least a year before getting in a relationship.
After not sleeping at all last night, I wrote an e-mail to my ex wishing her well, thanking her for memories, but I will not take her back, and to never come back to my house again.
I wish I'd never met her at all. :(
-- Edited by Seymore on Monday 21st of December 2015 03:35:26 PM
-- Edited by Seymore on Monday 21st of December 2015 03:49:58 PM
Seymore you are not alone with the feeling
You wish you never met your GF, i wish i
Never met my xah either. I hopefully have
Learned some life and recovery lessons.
You did good, I am proud of you. I hope she
does stay away from you. She sounds A little
dangerous to me.
So sorry for the unexpected visit from your qualifier. Hang in there and know that you are not alone.
Relationships are so hard without the added mess that this disease brings. The good news is we have a program of recovery that helps us heal, grow strong and find peace, joy and serenity. Not everyone else gets this gift, and I will be forever grateful that I found Al-Anon - even if that which brought me here brought me to my knees in pain.
Take care of you and your kids. Work on you and your program and your happiness now. Healing does happen and we are all worthy. (((Hugs))) to you!!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thanks guys. I dread going home now, for fear she'll be there again, trying to wear me down and get me to question myself. If she has a sponsor like she said she did, why did she not call HER before coming to my house? Was she lying AGAIN? Then again, she claimed she never once lied to me. When I told her a mutual friend of ours told me the truth about their night out drinking - how she had to be driven home and almost got them kicked out - she denied it completely. That night she said she drove herself home and there was no problems at all. Or when I claimed she lied to me about other things - obvious lies - nope, never happened. She accused me of flirting with another woman - nope, never said that. I KNOW she did. I felt like I was going crazy the other night.
And everything I had brought up to her that she did that hurt me, the answer was "It was the alcohol, I'm sorry I was an idiot". Anything she did, it was the alcohol. Like she had zero control over herself. I think her insecurities and other things were to blame, but that same response over and over again just started to anger me. I was just so angry, and I wanted to cry. I literally could not and had no idea why - I felt every emotion that came with crying, but no tears could come out. Someone told me that the fact I couldn't trust her may have been a factor - like a kid who hurts himself with his friends and can't cry, but can cry to his mother easily.
-- Edited by Seymore on Tuesday 22nd of December 2015 04:54:06 PM
