Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

hiraeth · Senior Member

what are the reasons to stay?

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

I do believe the reasons for staying are as diverse as we are.

How will this information help you?

hiraeth · Senior Member

What are some of the diverse reasons?

The information would help me; by helping me to understand something I don't understand yet. Understanding is always helpful to me.

Why do you ask? Is it an unacceptable question?

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I know many people stay because they're not in a position to support themselves financially. They may have been a stay-at-home parent or out of the workforce or disabled.

I didn't have that issue. Initially I stayed because I had hope. In fact all along I had hope. I hoped our relationship could be what I always wanted, and I hoped he would stay sober and things would be more like what they were in the beginning.

When I finally realized he wasn't going to stay sober, I left.

I also stayed for quite some time because I was afraid. I was afraid that I'd regret leaving, or that I'd never find a better relationship, or that I was really the problem and leaving was stupid because I couldn't leave myself. I was afraid that I couldn't handle the storm of emotions that came with leaving. The chaos had been so bad that I didn't have a lot of reserves. In fact leaving turned out to be much easier than I expected. The lead-up to it was painful and horrible, though.

hiraeth · Senior Member

All of that makes so much sense Mattie. Thank you for sharing, I really appreciate it xx

P. S I can particularly relate to the bit about lacking reserves

-- Edited by hiraeth on Wednesday 11th of November 2015 02:07:56 AM

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

It just sounds a bit like one of those research type questions. Why do you stay? I stayed because I was sick, in denial, fearful, addicted to him, living in laa laa land not aware of reality. Also, I got to cop out, play the victim, martyr.

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Hiraeth,

For me all of the above - different reasons at different moments. I think that my main reason is something to do with low self worth rather strangely mixed with a sense of 'I can do this', without any recognition that I was harming myself and standing in the way of my own life in the process.

Some of the reasons also include: Love; valuing the relationship that we had; not identifying myself with the term divorcee; stubborn resistance to letting the 'dark forces' of life win; liking my home; liking my animals; fear that I would be making a mistake; fear of the unknown; wanting to maintain belief in my husband; thinking that I was a failure if I couldn't maintain that belief; the lessons that I keep learning; that I didn't deserve better. As I type these things, I am aware that one of the lessons that I have yet mastered is that I am the captain of my own destiny!

Thank you for the thought provoking question.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

I stayed because I wanted to. I continue to stay because I want to. And, I would say, Yes - this question is not appropriate and is personal.

I do not see how any answer will assist you with your recovery, so maybe I am missing how this applies to the program...

For every reason you could list on paper, you would find one person who stayed/left for that reason.

Debb · ~*Service Worker*~

Well, I do love him and because of Al-Anon I am able to understand, empathize with the disease and also retain my dignity and sanity. It works!!

KT2015 · ~*Service Worker*~

I think you could ask the same question "why would you leave?" and you would also get very different answers. The question feels judgemental. Like you can't fathom why someone would stay. But maybe I am projecting my own issues on this. My answer to this would be as follows. I hope it helps you gain some understanding. I stay because of love. I love my husband, I love my daughter, I love our life together. I am not in an abusive relationship. I do not have low self esteem nor am I financially dependent on him. I am educated, well spoken, intelligent and a very strong woman. I have considered leaving when things were bad between us. Love is what keeps me in my marriage today. I have no doubt that I could leave tomorrow or that I could find someone else to be in a relationship with or that I could manage on my own. But I don't want to do that. I have compassion and kindness in my heart for him (sometimes more than others lol). I am not perfect and neither is he. I have friends who have chosen to leave and friends who have chosen to stay in an alcoholic marriage. Both paths are full of struggles, loneliness and hard times but that is what life is all about. I stay because it is the right choice for me. I don't think there is any magic solution to being with someone who is an Alcoholic. No two alcoholic marriages are the same.

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

I am grateful that al-anon has taught me that I needn't Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain myself, my actions or my choices. I'm very grateful for that lesson.
Al-anon has also freed me from the burden of needing to understand and analyse other people's motives. I'm grateful for that lesson too!

Thanks for the opportunity to reflect on this

Bethany66 · Senior Member

Ditto almost exactly what KT2015 stated.
It is a choice made in full awareness of all sides of the situation including my part in the occasional craziness.
It is made out of a place of deep love, concern, caring, empathy, respect and would be require you to be in my head, which I don't recommend as a safe place to hang out!! :)

littlelionman · Veteran Member

I understand why you'd ask the question, and I don't believe your motive to be one of judgement. I think it's potentially useful to hear other people's experience, with one catch: That after you've heard other people's experience, you turn the same question back to where it can benefit you the most and ask yourself "Why would I stay?" and also "Why would I leave?" and reflect on the reasons you list. Those answers are the only ones that truly matter and the challenge you face is about trusting yourself to answer these very important questions. Many of us have been where you're at and I truly believe that in time you will have your answers, and you'll be pleasantly surprised at the clarity of them once you reach a decision one way or the other. There is no right or wrong, and you have the right to change your mind later if your perspective evolves and a new inventory reveals different answers. Be patient and gentle with yourself and all will work out :) Wishing you the very best on your journey.

medicmoni · Member

This is my first post/response to this group (new to Al-Anon in general), and as such am unaware of some of the social norms within a group such as this. I will say, I have read through many posts, and have seen the issues I am dealing with verbalized my many others. To this, I will say:

For those that believe that the question was too personal for you, you could have chosen to remain silent.

Thank you to those that have decided to share your story and struggle. I find solace and strength in knowing that I am not alone in my struggles with my ABF. I have found strength in your encouraging posts, and found myself asking this very question last night and today.

I have been wrestling with leaving him, and in fact cleared all my belongings out of his house today. The only thing remaining is for me to retrieve one last item from his parents' home and to hand over my key to his house. I even went so far to write a note and tape the key to it. He is out of town for the remainder of the week, so I have a bit of a 'cooling off' period to ensure that I am sure of my decision. The problem is that I love him, wholly and unconditionally, and even as I write this I can see a future with him. I am trying to understand the disease, but every time things start getting really good, he pushes me away. I just don't know where to go from here...

Debb · ~*Service Worker*~

Medicmoni, welcome to MIP and congratulation on your first share/post. I would like
to say that your statement "For those that believe that the question was too personal
for you, you could have chosen to remain silent." was an unnecessary. That being said
in order for me to stay in my marriage with AH took a lot of work on my part, to look
within myself and admit my part in my inability to cope with the disease. Honestly
working the 12-steps, face to face meetings, reading Al-Anon literature, learning the
prayers and protocols helped me become a better person and more capable of coping
with my husband's disease. Wishing you the best in your journey and please keep
coming back!

RealitySucker · Veteran Member

I don't necessarily think it's that the question itself is inappropriate or too personal, I think maybe it's the way it was asked - completely without context. It seems "clinical" because it's asking people to share without sharing anything first. It would probably be different if the OP mentioned she (or he) was struggling with such a decision and then asked for ESH. Anyway. I'm choosing to stay FOR NOW because I love my husband and we committed to each other "for better or worse." His struggles with alcohol can definitely be defined as a "worse" period, but I've had "worse" periods myself and he has stood by me. I'm staying FOR NOW because I see that he acknowledges his problem, wants to change, and is working toward that change. I'm staying FOR NOW because amongst all the shit I still see glimmers of the happiness and love that we share and I have hope that soon we will be in a "for better" period. Now, I qualified my statements with "FOR NOW" because I'm also fully aware that alcoholism is a progressive disease and that not all who achieve sobriety maintain it. I have set my boundaries and will stick to them. I haven't had to utilize them, yet, and hope I never will, but they are there. I'm staying - but I know I have the option to change my mind at any time. My AH is 52 days sober today.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

medicmoni - I too welcome you to MIP. I also agree that your comment regarding 'too personal'....remain quiet is unnecessary.

We are a large family and there are traditions and structure. We place principals before personalities. I am entitled to express my opinion and/or my thoughts. The OP (Original Poster) asked if it was an unacceptable question. My thoughts are that it is because it's a personal question. You are right too - I could have remained quiet - I chose not to as I'd rather discuss recovery than personal marriage decisions.

Al-Anon is where we all come to work on ourselves. It's not about our alcoholics, our husbands, our parents, our children, etc. It's about our experience, strength & hope. The question is very personal and for me, even if there had been a story, I would not have answered - I would have tried to relate, and shared accordingly. To stay or to leave is never an easy choice and each person is entitled to share with another that they've crossed a boundary.

In theory, that's what Al-Anon is about. Learning about us, growing and changing so that we can set healthy boundaries and enforce them. We do this by working the steps, studying the literature and helping each other through ESH.

As far as you ABF, it's very hard to understand the disease. The best way to learn is to embrace Al-Anon. By going to meetings, working on the steps and studying the literature, you'll understand more about the disease. We learn how to find joy and happiness in spite of what others are or are not doing. Alcoholism is a disease of the mind, body, soul and spirit. As it progresses, the alcoholic will do what they need to do to serve themselves. Most become selfish, self-centered, and will lie, cheat, steal, etc. to make sure their own needs are met.

You are not alone and we welcome you with open arms. Keep coming back and know that we're just a post away!

Dave2554 · Veteran Member

Very interesting and educational thread. I understand why the question was asked, and also now understand why some felt the question inappropriate, too personal, or 'clinical'.

From my perspective, it seemed like a very natural question to ask. When I first came to AlAnon my mind was made up about my marriage ... it was over. By the time I got through a couple meetings I had seen by so many in the fellowship who were married to an active alcoholic, and yet seemed serene and even happy to me. It was impossible for me to comprehend at that particular point in time how anyone could be serene and happy with active alcoholism in a spouse or significant other. I did want to know ... how are you managing to do this with active disease present in your home? Why even take the risk of more chaos and pain? I have to believe that for many husbands and wives who come to AlAnon because of the disease in their spouse, the future of their marriage is front and center in their mind.

I don't think I ever point blank asked the question as it was posed here, even though I thought about it a lot. And it wasn't a matter of judgement. It wasn't as if I thought to myself 'What is wrong with you that you stay?' ... it was truly a matter of want to learn that which I obviously didn't know or understand. What did those people have, or what had they learned enabled to remain married to active alcoholic and have such serenity in their lives?

Ultimately, the answers came to me through working with my sponsor, reading literature, and most importantly, hearing the experience strength and hope of other in meetings. I didn't need to ask anyone ... the answers were simply revealed to me through those resources.

I remain married today ... but my case is different now ... we are both working recovery programs, and my qualifier is no active. I have no idea where things would stand had she continued to remain active. I also know its pointless to consider a what if of something that did not happen. We are where we are, largely because I believe this is what our respective higher powers intended for us.

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

My main need was because I knew in my heart I could fix/control and cure him. When you love somebody it's hard to see what's right in front of your face. Stay or don't stay........it comes down to:

What are YOU going to do........

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Dave you make an interesting point . Had the question been asked as to ,"How" do you stay in a marriage with an un recovered alcoholic, many would have responded with the alanon tools that enabled them to enjoy life even if the alcoholic is still drinking or not.

Since the question was worded as:"Why" do you stay , it did not ask for the tools but only a peek into the most vulnerable soul of the members without the questioner revealing any vulnerability.

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

Money- I stayed because I had 4 daughters than I didn't want to change their lives. They were all almost out of high school and I decided to stay until the last one was graduated. The hubby still worked and brought home a good pay check and I could give the girls a life (sports, music, camps) that they would not have if it was just me footing the bills. The hubby got a DUI and went to AA one year BEFORE the last one graduated. So my HP had the last laugh on MY plans.

So I went to AlAnon to give him one more chance. I was told that AlAnon would help me get happy again. Him getting sober did not make me happy as he was harder to live with when he was sober. When he was a drunk he would work all day and then come home and pass out in the evening. I would have my nights to spend with the kids. When he got sober he was hard to live with and I had to find reasons to leave the house in the evening so I wouldn't be in his line of fire. It was easier when he passed out.

I like to say that AlAnon steps saved my life. AlAnon traditions saved his life.

When you go to AlAnon and study the steps and traditions you will understand what I mean.

Your questions does not offend me. When I started the program I asked the same thing. I wanted to know I was okay. If I didn't want to answer I would not have. We are anonymous on this board so there is nothing personal here.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

All I can say is that , after years on this board and being blessed to hear the stories of so many, I do understand more of why people stay, leave, and wrestle with the in between. I understand the disease and how it affects loves ones. I understand codependency and enabling better. I know what detachment is. I don't judge anywhere near like I did. I also know the miracle of how we can help each other. Welcome to alanon new folks.

-- Edited by pinkchip on Friday 13th of November 2015 09:24:33 PM

daze · Veteran Member

I think any question that you ask that will help you find your way is a fair question. I can tell you I stayed for purely financial reasons when my son was little. I was fortunate at the time in that my husband went to rehab and had 10 years of sobriety that were good years. After his relapse and losing his job this time around, I have to be honest I am not sure why I stay. Probably the fact that I take my vows very seriously but sadly love doesn't have too much to do with it. I hope you found the answers that you need to help you Hiraeth.

Jen61 · ~*Service Worker*~

Love. Thirty eight years is a long time to be with someone and then leave. If I do walk out at one point I want to make sure that I gave it my all and not have to go through the what ifs.

lisad67 · Veteran Member

Ive tried to leave, but i have three kids and no where other tha a shelter to go. I do have love for the man who is not the alcoholic, but its the alcoholic i cant bare. I plan on getting back to work when our toddler is school age, and i am hoping it will give me the independance and strength to make a decision.

-- Edited by lisad67 on Saturday 14th of November 2015 02:34:44 PM

daze · Veteran Member

Good luck to you Lisa. Jen, I too have 37 years invested in this marriage and you are so right about the what ifs. I think my chance for the what ifs came years ago and now the opportunities for a life without the basic comforts such as food and shelter have passed on by. Now I am at the stage of this is what it is and hope for a better reality someday.

ceewi · Veteran Member

hiraeth wrote:
I'm curious about why people stay with alcoholic husbands or wives, especially when they are not in recovery.
Why do you stay?
I'm not criticising your choice, I'd just like to understand the motives to stay in such a situation.

-- Edited by hiraeth on Wednesday 11th of November 2015 01:43:42 AM

I honestly believe my HP has directed me to all of these posts today..reading each one has given me new perspective. You can read all the books you want about war but until you've actually been in the trenches you have no idea how bad it really is.

I guess I'm in a unique situation..I was married to an addict 20 years ago..small child but the minute I got on my feet I was out of there..for me it was a matter of life or death. And now..sighs I'm back again..he has his place and I have mine..so for now its all a matter of how much I want to deal with..

He admitted to me one week ago today that he uses..Until that moment I was happy with our relationship..I mean sure we've pissed each other off a couple times but that's normal lol..

Some people say I should just cut my losses, run don't walk..you've been down this road..why would you want to do it again..Because this time I know how it works..I have the tools that will keep me from getting sucked in..and at any point I can say I've had enough

I'm not the same woman who would (can't believe I used to do this) sit by the window watching and waiting for car lights smh. I had a "relapse" last night 3am toss and turn session lol..but I knew exactly where to go and what to do

Sus · Veteran Member

Alcohlics/addicts are very manipulative controlling people. I think a lot of people stay to keep the peace, to not send the AH over the edge and then be the victim of abuse. I'm currently struggling with whether or not to stay. I've tried to break it off several times and he would badger me endlessly until I give in. AH are also professional gaslighter so they are good at convincing you that you're the one who needs fixing.

Michelle814 · ~*Service Worker*~

I can only share my experience, strength, and hope. My husband is very sick. For today, I stay because I love him. Truly. I know his heart. My heart breaks that he has this disease. My heart breaks that he hates himself and self medicates his pain away. I still love him. I still see the beauty of our life together in glimpses. He is not abusive in any way just a liar and unreliable when he's using. I've learned to live and let live as best I can one day at a time. Alanon has saved my sanity, my life. All I can do is be the best me I can be, the best Mom I can be. I have no control over what kind of person or father he will be. However, we remain married and living together because I love him and just for today I choose to stay.

-- Edited by Michelle814 on Wednesday 18th of November 2015 07:32:45 PM

austinmom · Newbie

Your response to "why stay?" really resonated with me. I'm still with my A (20yrs married). I feel like I don't know what a "normal" relationship is or would be like. I guess I"m afraid that I would learn that I really AM the problem or that what we have IS normal or as good as can be expected....but then I look at my friends & how they refer to their husband as though they make decisions together, they listen to each other & decide together, the husband actually participates in the family or discipline...then I feel, no, this is not normal. But I'm still so scared. Have you dated anyone after leaving? Did you instantly notice a difference in other men & their interaction wtih you?

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Austinmom, that's a good question. I have seriously dated three men since splitting up with my A, and sorta dated a fourth. They were all better than my A, although one of them turned out to push my codependent buttons and the relationship got increasingly dysfunctional and difficult. In the end it was not a good relationship - but it was still a heckuva lot better than my relationship with my A. I told myself that at least I had a better class of bad relationship. smile

With the others, one reason they weren't so bad was that I spotted the red flags earlier and did not get so deeply into the relationship. I kept it at its appropriate level. That is always a challenge for me as I have a lot of practice not keeping it at its appropriate level. I am still practicing setting boundaries and doing what's right. Also I picked a better kind of man that I picked before.

Imperfect as these relationships have been, they have all been much better than my A. But if my "picker" were still as broken as it used to be, I would have picked the really bad ones again. I can see them out there. They make approaches from time to time. I'm so happy that I'm saying no before I get involved. I think that's the key to not repeating the nightmare.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome to MIP austinmom - so glad you found us and glad you joined in!

I am still with my AH - we've been married 24 years, going on 25. Our relationship is far from perfect, and I understand and relate to what you've written. I just choose to do my best each day to be the best me I can be and not concern myself with others, their relationships, etc. I believe everybody's got something and some of us are 'more blessed' than others.

My life philosophy aligns with my swimsuit/public pool philosophy - I am grateful for what I have and how I appear. I know when I take off my cover-up at the pool, there will be ladies who look way better than me in their suit. There are those too who will look worse than me as well. I am grateful to 'fit in' and not be above or below expectations.

Being average for me today is perfectly human and OK. Please join us for this journey and keep coming back!!!

hiraeth · Senior Member

I see myself in all of your various answers. Each answer here is a gift, thank you everyone

Fairlee · Senior Member

This was a good thread and I have refrained from "adding my two cents" because my reasons change every day. Every other day I second guess why I stay, and think I can't deal with it anymore! It's a roller coaster ride! I think my main reason for staying is that I do love my AH, especially who he used to be, and I am holding out hope that I might see that person again some day. Also I feel trapped, due to where we live and how we live...I have been out of the work place for 18 years and self-employed with my AH. I fear going out and getting a "real" job and worry that I could never support myself and our 3 kids. We live in a very rural area, the closest town large enough to find a half-way decent job is an hour away. All of this, low self esteem, fear and codependency are other reasons :(

marie57 · Member

We have been together 30 years. In the earlier years, I stayed because of love and not wanting to break up the family. Now I stay because I can't afford to live on my retirement alone. I still love him and he has actually improved since getting older but there are still days I want out. I do daydream sometimes what my life could have been like married to a healthy man.

Thorn · Veteran Member

Good thread and I took no offense. I appreciate everyone's answers and for me -I can see my loved ones through the disease. Some days it's harder than others to remember that they are afflicted with a disease, but since it's one I also share it makes it easier for me to understand. I was loved, helped, and accepted by family, friends , AA and Al-Anon. My qualifiers whether drinking/using or not deserve the same.

ItsAllAboutMeMC · Veteran Member

I stay because I'm in love with my ABF and I'm not ready to leave. I know if I leave when I'm not ready I will either go back or I'll never get closure. I also have recently become aware of the reality that if I continue to go to my meetings and work my program and he does not the chances of us staying together are very unlikely. Although its a painful thought I know that it will be for the best.

Shakti · Member

There are no reasons here for it is an unreasonable life situation. Reasons can only apply probably if one is dealing with a normal situation.

i have struggled with my sons addiction for over 15 years,veering between extremely negative emotions to very positive ones however as I reflect back now each emotion I expressed was founded on the personal premise that I can cure this or I can control this. In every response and reaction I had there was this conviction that I am in charge here of this chaotic situation and I can do something about it. It was this that drove all my actions. I was as chaotic as him.

years later I reached rock bottom recognised my powerlessnessand turned to the 12 steps. And realised hey this is about me,not about him. This is about my clarity my serenity my peace given whatever situation I may be placed in. Decision making since this awareness came, is an easier process.

Southerngirl · Veteran Member

Well, I appreciate the question and the replies have helped me. It has made me stop and think about my answer. I didn't want to stay. I tried to leave many times. I stayed for all the wrong reasons - not because I love him, but because I felt trapped. And because I was 'faking it.' I stayed for my kids. My situation may be a little different from some of yours. My husband has a chemical dependency issue - not alcohol. I do understand that nar-anon might be a better place for me. But I found a local al-anon family group and they have been my lifeline. I found this place, after looking at a nar-anon forum, but it was not a good fit for me at all. So, when I can't get to my local group, I turn here. I read more than I post, but today find myself feeling terribly alone, sad, and wanting and needing to reach out.

Until recently, my family 'seemed' very normal. My kids have never known a father who seemed any different from other fathers. He works. He mows the lawn, he shoots basketball with them, etc. But he is numb inside from over forty years of opiate abuse. He is not normal and more and more lately, he is acting in ways that are and more - off. My kids do know about their dad, and we do talk about it. Dad, though, will not talk about it. He denies there is a problem and we have accepted that he will be this way until the end. Many interventions, therapy, etc - denial denial denial. Ok. We get it. So, knowing what that meant, I still chose to keep my family together until the kids were raised and to keep the peace for their sake. We do have a good family life. Nontraditional, but not bad. So I stayed.

I will not stay forever. I'm almost at the end of my agreement. When I left a long time ago, he begged me not to take his kids away from him and I didn't. I'm at the end of that contract.

SG

Seymore · Member

I think it's a great question, and it's clearly provoked a lot of thought. I wouldn't judge you by assuming you were being judgmental, either. "I'm not criticising your choice, I'd just like to understand the motives" is pretty much a non-confrontational and inquisitive statement.

I stayed with my A because we had already been through quite a bit, because I wanted to make sure I gave it my all before leaving, and, admittedly, because I listened to the people who said "If you love her you'll stay with her/make it work". That last part is a load of baloney, and a good way to go down with the ship, so to speak. If you love someone you can also let them go - that quote wasn't made for nothing.

I made the decision to finally leave because nothing was changing, my sanity was suffering, and I believed that by simply "coping" with her and her disease I was doing nothing but enabling it and giving her the impression that I was ok with it. Me leaving finally provoked her to get help, which while it doesn't sound like she's doing it for the right reason, is more than what would have happened had I stayed.

-- Edited by Seymore on Saturday 26th of December 2015 01:03:03 PM

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

"Folks are usually about as happy as they make their minds up to be." Abe Lincoln

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene