The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Alcoholism is a disease that takes. Your post is all about everything youve lost. The idea that you want to be there for him in his recovery is a common mistake and is the disease in the non drinking partner. If you learned about the disease and truly wanted to help then the only way is to detach with love. Allow him the proper and right consequences of his actions. So he lost his job then the proper consequences for most would be he cant afford to drink anymore. The chances are you are now paying his way. This allows his drinking to continue. If hes hit you then the proper consequences would be being arrested for most people. The chances are you have covered it up. So your committment is most likely allowing and encouraging the disease to continue.
Alcoholism isolated me from family and friends too, i was ashamed. Then before i knew it he was all i had. A sick man incapable of giving me what i wanted. I would seriously consider not marrying this guy. The warning signs are screaming at you here. Read your post as if you didnt write it. What would you think?
The disease progresses, gets worse and worse and everything else along with it. So if you think things are bad and cant get any worse, dont kid yourself. I strongly suggest attending an alnon meeting and getting recovery for yourself.
I understand what you're saying of course. I have lost everything and a lot of myself in this relationship. There are days when I honestly wish I'd never met him. Yet here I am. Completely in love with this man. Invested in him. Sometimes it's a scary place to be. I wonder what he's doing when I'm not with him & I feel like an overbearing parent at times. At his lowest, he was drinking a cask of wine every day, ended up losing his parents, his daughter, his job, went to jail (for the assault on me) and was living in his crappy car - that I bought him. I wonder why I had to fall so in love with someone with this addiction. The problems are there when he's sober too. He refuses to go to AA meetings - says he can do it by himself. I find empty or half empty casks of wine around the place. Even if I see an empty bottle in the street I wonder if it was him. I have kicked him out & taken him back many times. The fact is, it's like we need each other & it hurts us both to be apart. I know he does love me. I just wonder if alcohol will always come before me.
I think your wondering the right question, you wonder why you fell in love with somekne with his addiction. For me thats the best question and if you get yourself to meetings you will find the answers. For me, the reasons i married and stayed with an alcoholic for 20 yrs was i was born into the disease of alcoholism so was taught many of the required behaviours like controlling, fixing, enabling, codependency. I was a wee girl with many holes and an alcoholic can fit into many of those holes. Like, i wanted to be needed, it felt like he needed me. Overall, it was all my unhealthiness and mental health issues that drove me to seek out an alcoholic. Ive been working on me for over 3 yrs now and im much better. I dont need an unhealthy addictive relationship that i called love. If you look up the definition of love an alcoholic relationship doesnt really fit with it. Love in alcoholism, before recovery, is usually codependency, obsession, controlling, mothering, smothering. All pretty intense and highly to addictive for the human brain.
I understand the love and the isolation and the loss and everything that goes with it. I couldn't pretend to judge since I am still with my A after a turbulent and often unhappy history.
But I do wonder about the decision to marry when it doesn't sound like you are excited or happy about it? Kind of more like you feel like you are marching off to your doom... how do you envision this marriage and your future together?
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
I completely love him. I am really excited about marrying him, but the reaction from everyone I know has been so negative that I just expect it now. We have been together a year & a half and he still makes my heart skip a beat. I don't like being away from him even for a day - he is everything to me. I live in hope that he will commit to keeping sober. I even went with him to one of his first AA meetings tonight. I really hope that our life together is on the way up
It sounds like you have on the rose tinted glasses. I used to have a pair of those. I wish you well and hope you get everything you need and your road isn't as rocky as mine was. Alanon is always there and to find a meeting go online to the website.
I truly wish you every happiness.
I'd really strongly encourage you to go to al-anon meetings and work your own program intensely, for both of your sakes.
You surely must be aware that there are no guarantees that he will stay sober or that things will not get difficult at least periodically. If your happiness is contingent on his sobriety, or indeed on anything he may or may not do, then you are helpless and at the whim of someone suffering with a crippling addiction, AND on top of that, HE is under the incredible pressure of being responsible for your happiness..do you see what I mean? That's where al-anon comes in. If you can leave him to be responsible for his own recovery and seek your own al-anon recovery I'd say your marriage stands a much better chance, as do each of you as individuals.
Also please be aware that if he DOES embrace recovery and start being a regular AAer you might find he has less time for you and at first you feel left out; that happens a lot. But knowing that it's giving him the best shot at sobriety, you can find yourself support through al-anon. So please do give it a chance.
Best of luck and also, belatedly, welcome!!!
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Vintagebel, welcome to MIP ... it would seem that you have made up your mind. I would strongly suggest that you join a local Al-Anon face to face group, it is there and through working the Al-Anon 12-step program, that you will learn why you are addicted to your addict. http://al-anon.org/find-a-meeting.
Please keep coming back to talk with us, you are not alone.
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"Forgiveness doesn't excuse bad behavior, but it
does prevent bad behavior from destroying your heart". ~ unknown
A very powerful statement two of them that got me thinking a lot and I'm no longer married to an A.
If you knew right now that in 5 years nothing would change and the drinking would only get worse would you choose to continue this relationship?
The other one is do you love your addict enough to let them be in their disease and be ok with it?
I don't think coming here and asking for those of us who have walked that fire if you should marry an A is the right question. Trust me my answer is holy moly gal your butt should be on fire running to that door with the little you have shared. As EC shared .. this is a progressive disease and yes there is hope .. however until they get help .. until they really decide they want to be sober .. it's going to get worse and that I can absolutely testify.
You made some very powerful statements in your original post as well as the follow up .. he's already started hitting you. He may or may not be sober.
I am absolutely not judging here .. if you were talking to your best friend and they made these statements to you .. what would you say to her?
What is the rush to get married is my question .. why not wait a bit before tying the knot? Ok .. you inconvenience a few people big deal. Now is the time to get some answers to the first two questions I posed and THEN make a decision.
Again not judging .. however how old are you? And I only ask because you do sound very young .. lol .. very young to me is anyone under 35 so I should qualify that and how old is your fiancé .. a lifetime of addiction at a young age is a great deal of pain because forever and eternity are a long long time.
If I knew now and I thought I could help him .. I thought it was different with me .. I thought that he was a "nice guy". He probably is a nice guy under it all, however the signs were there the flags were raised and I ignored them. After all he's a nice guy .. which went from most of the time .. to some of the time .. to at this point nice people do not hurt the people they are suppose to love.
That right there .. love is not suppose to hurt. Child birth hurts, broken bones hurt .. love does not hurt. Love empowers, it is kind, it is allowing someone to be their worst (not abusive .. there is a big difference) and say that's ok I love you.
Alanon helped me remember who I am and I'm grateful for my XAH because I have two very beautiful children out of the deal .. however .. I also deal with the consequences of choosing to love an A. Again grateful that it brought me to Alanon .. grateful for the lesson I have learned today .. boy oh boy .. I would have loved not to have this story to tell and not watching the hurt and confusion of my children as they wonder why dad doesn't call and so on. Be prepared to be a single parent with an active A, even if you are married to them.
I hope you will keep coming back .. I hope you will try and get to a face to face alanon meeting .. I'm not the kind of person who is going to tell you marrying an active A is a great idea and if your family is backing away that is a HUGE red flag.
Please reread what you wrote and ask yourself .. if this were coming from my very best friend .. what would be my words to her and look to that because you should be your own best friend and you should love yourself the way you would love your best friend.
Hugs and best of luck, S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Welcome to MIP VB - glad you found us and glad you found the courage to share!
In Al-Anon, we don't judge nor do we advise what to do, stay/go, marry/not, etc. The exception to this in cases of abuse - you will then here suggestions on getting and staying safe.
I am married to my AH still (24.5 years). We met in recovery (the other side) a long while ago. We had hopes, dreams, etc. of a peaceful, serene marriage working the program and being a spiritually sound couple.
We were a bit older - both had been married before - and wiser....or so we thought. We discussed everything before marriage - finances, religion, children, faith, etc. - all the topics you cover in the pre-marriage counseling. We were a perfectly aligned match and I was head over heels in love - he being the love of my life.
Approximately 2.5 years after our marriage, he relapsed. I did not. He's never found recovery again, and is quasi-functional. I still love him, we have 2 kids and I am at peace and happy. However, he is not the man I married and if I met 'him' today, I would not even have coffee with him.
This disease changes people. It makes them entirely different in every way - physically, mentally, spiritually and emotionally. Only you can decide your choices, your partner, your future. I will share one thing - should he ever choose sobriety, he will not be the person you fell in love with. You've met and grown with an active alcoholic. Not all who find recovery become 'better, more loving people'. They tend to become more true to themselves and it's not always what 'we' think it should be.
So - BLUF - bottom line up front - if I knew then what I know now, I would not marry an alcoholic - in recovery or not. I am one so that's a hard fact to state, but it's my truth. I would be friends, I would support, I would love but I would never marry one if I knew what I know now...
"Love is BLIND" is such a true, profound statement. Keep coming back here - we don't focus on 'them' - we focus on us. Making our lives the best we can in spite of what others are doing or are not doing. I am able to stay in this marriage, committed to my vows because this program has taught me how to accept things, exactly as they are and be the best me in spite of the disease.
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Welcome! In addition to face to face Al Anon meetings, might I suggest you check out the book Codependent No More? Your statement about "needing" each other waves a lot of red codependent flags. It's one of the biggest things my AH and I have been working on through counseling. Needing each other = unhealthy, unstable. Loving and wanting each other = healthy. Being all-consumed by another person - especially an addict - and labeling it love is dangerous.
I won't judge you and certainly won't tell you what to do, but I will say, if I had known then what I know now, and having been through what I have, I wouldn't have married my AH.
I know, I know, there's always the argument in your head "But we're different than everyone else. We love each other." Stop there! You're not different. Alcoholism is alcoholism and codependency is codependency. No amount of love and hope and wishing will change it.
Just make sure you go into the marriage eyes wide open and please please please do some self-work to keep yourself sane!
Best of luck.
-- Edited by RealitySucker on Monday 9th of November 2015 11:14:36 AM
welcome Belinda. In order to be there for him in his recovery, he first must actually have a recovery to speak of. You speak of loving this man, what I read is enabling. Sometimes true and actual love is backing off and allowing the 5 year old in the mans body to take responsibility for his life. Marry this man, go ahead and marry him. It could well be the action that brings you to your own reflection where you are forced to discover what it is in you that is attracted to violent, irresponsible, emotionally unavailable men who want mother replacement systems rather than equal partners. At least that is how it worked for me when I put on my Florence nightingale uniform and married an alcoholic.
whatever happens, your higher power always has you sweetheart. Go well.
I wanted to take a moment to welcome you here. If you haven't attended in person Alanon meetings, I hope you'll give it a try.
I wanted to share something with you that someone once shared with me. I had a broken picker when it came to romance and love and an Alanon friend offered this wisdom. They suggested I think of a person who I had known in my life whom I was able to rely upon and trust, a person in whose company I'd felt one hundred percent safe and loved. I was fortunate to be able to recall such a person from my childhood. They asked me to picture myself with that person and remember that feeling. They then told me that was the quality of healthy love and to never accept anything less.
I'm glad today that I took that suggestion to heart.
I hope you'll keep coming back to share this recovery journey with us. (((hugs)) TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
Aloha Belinda and welcome to the board...I read your post and held my breath and read the replies and started to breath again. I have lived in both sides of your post and have been born and raised in the disease. I am a fellow member of both AA and Al-Anon with Al-Anon being first and the MIP fellowship who has come forward to support you brings a deep sense of gratitude to me. If I had not been received like this when first (for real) accepting the program I would no longer be alive. Alcoholism is a fatal disease and it has no prejudice about who it kills...drinker or not. You have experience the violence with-in the disease and you were attacked by someone under the influence who's mind and emotions were not sane or rational. I have experience that myself...I have been the perpetrator in the past...I apologize to you for the abuse and pain and damage...you did not deserve it and won't deserve it in the future. I apologize not for him and because you did nothing to be attacked.
It took hundreds of members just like the ones who have confronted your pain on this post to get me to stand still and be quiet and just listen to what I was being told. These women are the sane ones and it was women like these and men also who re-raised me to be a mature individual and then when I questioned my own addiction to alcohol urged me into AA also.
The feedback you have received here is gold. This is the feedback that psycologists and family therapist and counselors want available to other friends, family, relative and associates of alcoholics and addicts....because it is real experience...I am also a former behavioral health therapist who counseled counseled counseled. They have not ceased manufacturing alcohol and drugs...there are millions of others out there who are victims of our disease who are looking for happiness and a real opportunity to stay alive at the same time to enjoy it.
For you I have prayers; the same prayers which were said for and with me so that I would change the way I thought, felt and acted. These prayers are ongoing daily conversation with my Higher Power who I met formally in Al-Anon; a God of my own understanding. My Higher Power allows me to ask for others and now you being an other I will ask for you. Keep coming back to MIP and consider the face to face meeting rooms of Al-Anon in your area as you also can attend on-line meetings at MIP daily...participate or just listen...It's Al-Anon...which was started by the spouses of two early alcoholics. (((((Hugs)))))
Thank you so very much to everyone for taking the time to post, or even read my posts. I am sure that my story rings true with a lot of people who have been through it before. I am not blind to his behaviours & I am really trying to NOT spend all my time obsessing about what he is or isn't doing. I want to support him but I want to be strong in myself as well. I accompanied him to an AA meeting this week & was blown away by the honesty & strength of the people who spoke. They spoke of lying to everyone they loved, including themselves. They spoke of loss & of pain and of regret. They spoke of the lives of people they loved - some of who they had destroyed while active alcoholics. I admit that it made me scared about my future by choosing this path. I am also incredibly proud of him for what he has achieved. He got sober after 20+ years of drinking over 2 litres of wine a day, every day. He was sober for five weeks, had a relapse (two binges) but then committed to not drinking again & has been sober now for nine days. He is the love of my life & I know how hard it must have been for him to give up this life long habit. I respect him for even trying to get sober. My wedding is three days & I am excited about it. I know many of you think I'm crazy, but I can't imagine a life without him & don't really want to. Thank you for supporting me, even though you probably want to scream at me "DON'T DO IT!!!". I really appreciate all your knowledge & wisdom. I will get to an Al-Anon meeting next week & if it's ok, I'd love to stay on here for support & advice. I don't really have anyone in my life anymore to bounce things off. I thank y
It most certainly is OK to hang with us! We welcome you with open arms and please let us know how your first Al-Anon meeting goes!
Prayers for you both as you embark upon your journey of recovery and marriage!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
So glad you are going to attend Alanon, you will learn how to live a happy life regardless if the alcoholic is drinking or not. Good for you. I hope your wedding goes well and your family come back into your life. Also, glad to have you here too.x
I know I am a little late chiming in on this topic. I once had my rose colored glasses on. I met my alcoholic while married to another man. He was married and had three kids. We took up together,moved in together.... it was the perfect storm. I joined alanon six months into the relationship. No one could have told me not to be with him. no sponsor.... Of course the honeymoon period quickly dissolved but I was convinced I couldn't live without this man. I put up with a lot of stuff that I would not put up with now. Alanon changed me. I became willing to learn how to live a peaceful and serene life. I no longer wanted the big highs and low lows. I learned that watching what he was doing made me miserable. Alanon gave me confidence and self love enough to put myself first and get the focus back on myself. We are still together. About a year and half after I joined alanon, he quit drinking. He has no recovery program. He still has some of the behaviors, but then again so do I. We aren't perfect, that's ok. We live a very quiet life now. I work two jobs. When I'm not working I like to spend time with our grandchild or just relaxing watching tv. I speak up for myself now. I'm not afraid anymore. If someones behavior is offensive. I tell them so in a kind way. I just had my five year birthday in alanon november 1. Alanon changed me, made me a much better person. I would recommend alanon to anyone that wants to live a more peaceful serene life. Thanks for letting me share with you sugar. Blessings
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I needed these behaviors in my past they helped me survive I'm finding new and better ways to not just survive but thrive
