You made me smile and laugh reading your post:)

Alanon and other 12 steps is not for everyone.

Personally i just sat, listened and absorbed for a
Long time. Change and growing is hard work and
It does not come easy to most. Always remember
That for the other person too.

I ended up in alanon on rock bottom could not go
Any lower place in my life. My marriage was in tatters
And so was i . I had been attending therapy, both of
Them said go to alanon. My now ex was attending
AA.

We never could iron out our problems. i am working
On me and the fallout. My ex was dry for thirty years.
His family is seeped in the family disease. My family
Is seeped in The dysfunction from the disease it goes
back Generations on both of us.

I had found serenity for awhile in this program now
I need to find it again and I pray for peace too. I
Still have much work to do on myself in Alanon and
i Will never graduate.

((((((( hugs))))))

Good morning. Welcome to MIP,. I too found your posting interesting and well thought out.I agree completely with IAMHere's and Mirandac's responses and would also like to add that :

I have been in Al-Anon for over 30 years, attend two meetings a week,have several sponsees and practice these principles in all my affairs. I attend Al-Anon weekly to maintain my spiritual principles, continue to grow in my understanding and application of them , and to share with new members my experience, strength and hope; nobody forces me to these meetings, except my own wisdom.

Connecting with like-minded others on a spiritual path strengthens my beliefs and dedication

Al-Anon's traditions suggests that our groups remain forever nonprofessional, and have no opinion on outside issues so. I will attempt to address your statement that Al-Anon is more like a cult..We are a fellowship of  equals with no leaders only trusted servants 

First and foremost, I did look up the definition of Cult and found the following; "
cult
/kəlt/ noun
a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.


I  Al-Anon does not venerates any particular figure or object ; each person is encouraged to find their own HP. Some people find good orderly direction, others a door knob , others the rooms of the program, others the principles of the program.

In addition, there are no religious veneration's proposed or encouraged. Our meetings are gatherings where we share, our thoughts as equals-- there are no leaders as each member is a trusted servants.

On the other hand, spirituality is defined as;
noun (pl) -ties
1.the state or quality of being dedicated to God,religion,
or spiritual things or values, esp ascontrasted with material or temporal ones

There is no single, widely-agreed definition of spirituality.[5][6][note 2] Surveys of the definition of the term, as used in scholarly research, show a broad range of definitions, with very limited similitude.[7]
According to Waaijman, the traditional meaning of spirituality is a process of re-formation which "aims to recover the original shape of man, the image of God.In modern times the emphasis is on subjective experience.[9] It may denote almost any kind of meaningful activity[1][note 4] orblissful experience.[3]Waaijman points out that "spirituality" is only one term of a range of words which denote the praxis of spirituality.[4] Some other terms are "Hasidism, contemplation, kabbala, asceticism, mysticism, perfection, devotion and piety".[4]

Looking at these definitions I would state that the Al-Anon program as a spiritual one, and not a cult.

If a member the likes to go to several meetings a week, develop a social network at these meetings, and is able to participate in life in a constructive manner, others may see this as obsession, or addiction. However, in Al-Anon. What other people think of us is none of our concern.

I will not argue the Ther·a·py concept but since it is a fellowship of equals with no leader or protocols to follow It does not matter the name you give it--if some one finds help
/ˈTHerəpē/

noun
treatment intended to relieve or heal a disorder.
synonyms: treatment, remedy, cure

We do not argue, defend, engage, or confront any controversy. All are welcome, and the opinions expressed are strictly those of the person who gave them.

My experience has been to use the Alanon program as a springboard for living a healthier and more sane life.  I've been around quite some time in Alanon and I continue to connect here and by going to face to face meetings because I love the program and how working it has led to positive changes in my life. I want to share that with new people in Alanon and I also want to continue to learn and grow through hearing others including those who are new because new people have wisdom, faith, humility and many other attributes to share. Attending Alanon is a positive experience for me. Attending helps me to remain humble and teachable, open minded about different ways of thinking. It's one of only a handful of places where I can truly be myself and be accepted and loved unconditionally. Giving back through service is something I personally believe in. I do this outside the rooms of Alanon for causes that have meaning for me. With that said, I'm grateful others where still coming to Alanon as oldtimers when I entered the rooms. It helped me to see Alanon members who were reasonably content and had serenity who offered a hug, their phone number and some evidence in their shares that my life could improve if I kept coming and worked on myself.  Support is "therapeutic" - comforting.

Alanon is a take what you like and leave the rest program.  Members come to meetings as much or little as they choose, get an Alanon sponsor or choose not to. People are in varying circumstances with the common link of alcoholism in their life. I agree with you that some people do come to the program who don't have alcoholism in their life but the program is open to anyone who chooses to come. In my personal experience, I've seen only a small number of people with no alcoholism history in their life in attendance. There are a myriad of support groups out there for all kinds of things so maybe people are finding groups that expressly deal with what they need.

Attending and working the program is a personal choice. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to work it.  The common thread amongst members is working toward greater sanity and serenity (whatever that looks like for you). It's for each person to decide whether they feel the program is an asset or detriment to their life. To me, Alanon is a program of choices based on respect for differences of opinion and differences in recovery. The goal is to feel less alone, less burdened through sharing with others who understand through personal experience. I equate the word cult with mind control. Alanon is a take what you like and leave the rest program. We freely choose to join one another.

As far as "addicted to alanon," I think if a person chooses to just occupy a chair for many years whether it's in Alanon or any 12 step program and not actually grow through taking responsibility for living the steps of a 12 step program that in my humble opinion would be a form of dependency. Much much can be unhealthy at times. I have seen some in Alanon who have many many sponsees and dominate service in Alanon. Balance in these things is important for me. Included in a full life are my outside interests including family, friends my hp and things I'm passionate about outside of the program.

Thanks for this topic. I hope my perspective and that of others here sheds some light for you personally.  I think you've presented an important topic that may help anyone who is a new or a first time visitor to this board to make their own choice as to whether Alanon sounds like a program for them.   TT 

Hi kramsnah,

 

Welcome to MIP and thank you for opening up about your thoughts, feelings, and concerns about what youve seen in AlAnon, and especially for asking for feedback and perspective from others.

 

I will take you up on your offer and share a few comments that reflect my personal experience, world view, and 3-year journey of trying to incorporate AlAnon principles in my life. As with all things in AlAnon, please take only what you like, and leave the rest

 

I broke down your share into thought groupings (red) and simply added my thoughts at the end of each.

 

I was wondering how people feel about overdoing this program. I know that I will be told that a person should and will do as much as he or she sees fit to get to sanity.  If that means 6 meetings a week and reading every day and talking to others 3 times a day than it's a "good" thing. 

I remember having similar thoughts early on. First thought: what is the AlAnon program about? It provides and fosters an environment of healing for those who are affected by the disease of alcoholism. It promotes focus on doing what is within our power to safeguard and heal ourselves while showing respect and love to others, including the alcoholic; learning to become better citizens in our household and in our world.

We may, as an individual, decide that multiple meetings are what we need at a particular time, or maybe we decide it isnt. Within our decision, AlAnon encourages balance and avoiding overextension that limits our capacity to care for ourselves in a healthy way.

Additionally, recovery and sanity is not attained solely in meetings. Much of our recovery occurs when we contemplate what we hear and read from the program in terms of application in our lives, how we can make better decisions and choices when dealing with others.

There are no reward points for attendance at meetings, there are healthy reminders of positive behavior and ways to show respect and love to others. There are many things I could do that offer less healthy returns for my time. We each must decide what is good for us.

I am for some reason starting to question whether or not this program has some cult like influence on people.  I hear in meeting all the time that we can really only talk to each other in these rooms because we understand each other.  This is the basis of a cult atmosphere? yes? And slogans and sayings and "rules" of right and wrong (do's and dont's) are a common religious protocol. 

Hotrod and Iamhere shared some helpful thoughts about the cult factor above. I find it of particular interest because I was raised, and spent a good portion of my life in a high control organization that, by most sociological definitions, easily fits into the definition of a cult.

Its helpful to remember the difference between what individual members share about their feelings, and the recommendations of AlAnon as a program. Individually, we are free to tell any and everyone about the details and struggles of our personal lives, or we may feel comfortable sharing only in the group. AlAnon does not tell us what we can and cannot do.

It is true, however, that many AlAnon members have benefitted from being able to share their experience among those who have gone through similar experiences, as it is difficult for those who havent to completely relate. Many also appreciate the anonymity that is respected in AlAnon meetings.

In virtually every organization, career field, sport, or hobby that I am aware of, there is a lingo, a set of acronyms, expressions, or sayings. I think this speaks to the norms of communications among groups rather than a stand-alone qualifier for cult status.

As far as rules, I have only heard from my first meeting until now the refrain there are no musts in AlAnon, unless it is maintaining anonymity. There are principles that govern the structure of AlAnon and the recommendations that are delivered in meetings and literature. I have never encountered rules in AlAnon, only traditions, suggestions, and recommendations.

I contrast this with the cult atmosphere I grew up in that featured an extensive network of rules that governed every aspect of my life, including the most personal. In an environment that is accurately described by Orwells 1984, merely expressing an opinion that differed from the official line could cost you the right to have any contact with those loyal to the group. This cost me my entire family, my wife, friends and virtually everyone I had ever known up to that point of my life.

I came to AlAnon many years later, still quite leery of anything that even hinted at what I had walked away from. There were a few isolated things that were a bit uncomfortable in certain meetings, but ultimately I found no one made me do anything I didnt wish to do. I was offered a framework for recovery, but was invited to customize it to fit my worldview, goals, pace, and comfort level. I am free to do what I feel is best for me, nothing more, nothing less.

I go to meetings and hear very intelligent people say that this is not therapy it is spiritual and they have been in the program for 25 years or 20 or 30!!!  In my mind one should want to use the program for a bit and then try to use it as maintenance and come back every now and then.  I think the answer to that is that it is also a social meeting place for many people. 

Without a doubt, there is a social component to ALAnon, as noted on the MIP welcome page: Al-Anon is a worldwide fellowship. Is there anything unhealthy about attending a social gathering for 25 minutes, weeks, or years that features an open invitation to focus on improvement of self, and respect and love of others?

Why worry about what others are doing or how they perceive their fellowship, especially if it works for them? AlAnon invites you to determine what works and makes sense to you. All AlAnon recommends is that we keep an open mind, be willing to try new perspectives.

Also many people have issues that are not really related to addiction but they seem to connect those dots and make it an addiction issue.  Then it really becomes therapy...correct? 

One of the things I discovered about myself, thanks to AlAnon, is that I maintained an unhealthy focus on the thoughts, actions, and behavior of others, to the detriment of my own growth. Early on, I found myself critiquing the recovery of others in the program, thinking that I was in a position to know whether they were approaching their recovery the right way.

AlAnon helped me see how this habit of mine was the source of a lot of irritation, frustration, and intolerance that robbed me of my serenity. It was the same habit that helped slow the recovery of my qualifier when I tried to manage her recovery. The moment I started to let go of my judgement of others and focus on managing my own growth and recovery, my angst dropped and my sanity increased dramatically, and continues as I try to improve me.

Please don't look at this post as a critique because it is not meant that way. I am just asking some questions to maybe get me off of a plateau or over a hump. 

That is fantastic! Good for you for tossing your thoughts and questions out there. Thats one of the ways the program works! As you have seen above, this is a safe place to express thoughts without being judged. I actually recognize some of your concerns in some of my own thoughts early on. AlAnon has helped me overcome much of my past inclination to judge and be intolerant of different perspectives and approaches to recovery and all things.

I see many divorces and many broken relationships in Alanon and the mantra of do what is right for "me" does not really encourage fixing or repairing these relationships. 

That is a perspective that I have seen expressed occasionally, but do not hold after coming to a better understanding of how AlAnon works. To say that working to improve our attitude, perspective, ability to detach with love and show respect is not going to help the relationship fails to credit how much our behavior can impact the relationship.

AlAnon asks us to honestly evaluate our contribution to negative experiences. In the daily reader Hope for Today, there is a great page that describes it using the mathematical equation A = B + C.  If we are unhappy with the outcome of something (A), which involves ourselves (B) and another person(s) (C), we can improve the outcome of A by changing the value of B.

Focusing on the adjustments I can make ensures that I am not trying to control someone else. It shows respect to them, allows them the feeling of satisfaction of discovering the path for recovery (or not) on their own.

Trying to manage someone elses recovery does not work for them, and is detrimental to us. Focus on working our recovery and giving them the room to work theirs turns out to be the best way to improve our situation (A), ourselves, (B), and allows for the best possible chance for recovery of another (C), and therefore is actually the best thing we can do for our relationship.

Whta really got me thinking about these things is that a person in  a meeting I was at said that he did not want to speak at a meeting but he could not not speak.  I said to myself that he was an addict himself and maybe he is addicted to this program.  Or obsessed which may be the same thing at the end of the day.

Is he truly an addict? To what, exactly? With what outcome to him? Are any of us qualified and able to make a determination about someone elses addiction? These questions and thoughts are similar to what I used to regularly engage myself in. AlAnon helped me realize that I am not qualified to determine these type of things for others. I dont know all of the details of their situation, their background, and what they are coming out of and perhaps still dealing with in their lives.

I am so grateful that AlAnon invites everyone, despite backgrounds, beliefs, qwerks and defects of character. I have decided at times not to share or participate at meetings, and determine for myself an appropriate timetable and regimen for my recovery. I take what I like and what works for me, and leave the rest. I work hard not to judge others or be concerned about what they are doing or not doing. I celebrate the freedom that the program offers, despite serving as a powerful, extremely effective framework of recovery for the pain of the disease.   

Any thoughts or discussion would really be appreciated.

Thank you for opening up your thoughts, questions and concerns to discussion. I hope my comments (which ran much longer than I originally intended!) are received as they were intended: my personal thoughts and feelings based on my experience in AlAnon, and as a person who entertained reservations and reluctance to become involved with anything with the elements of control or compulsion from my past.

 

 

I hope you are able to continue to explore AlAnon as an opportunity to consider alternative approaches to the challenges you have no doubt tried to address on your own. I gave AlAnon a try and found a way to benefit from its vast wisdom without compromising my own values. Hang in there, keep coming back and sharing your thoughts and questions

Daze I would like to say that no one in alanon discourages any member from seeking outside help. What we do ask is that at an alanon meeting only the alanon principles and literature be discussed so as to not confuse members with too many directions.
It is an alanon meeting that has traditional guidelines and when we attend we agree to these traditions.  Alanon meetings cannot appear to  support or endorse any other recovery option or cause. 

Anyone can seek outside help and after meetings share about it. You can also have a coffee date with a friend and so the same.

I first came to alanon over ten years ago through a specialized co-dependency counsellor, some one who felt so passionately about the family members affected by an addict (or several) she trained as a counsellor and started the familial trust. It was in these rooms that I learned the tools and from there the 12 steps. Over the years, ive used alanon the way you suggested, get better, go away, come back. Only, I found, I prefer the life approach of alanon, id say it is like a code of living for me, and I like having, actually need to have some folks in my life who just get it. I could relate alot to Miranda c, about being steeped in dysfunction. It, addiction and substance abuse is such a mess, I need out, alanon is my out.

@daze - I understand how at first glance, throwing everything you can at a problem is a natural response to do all one can to address a serious problem. That's certainly an approach I tried on my own before coming to AlAnon.

I find it interesting, however, that the medical field as a whole does not advise this approach in healthcare, particularly as it relates to serious health issues. There is a large and growing body of literature that likens this approach to the 6 blind men trying to ID the elephant: each misidentified it because they were focused on separate parts rather than the whole picture.

A recent article discussing findings from medical studies regarding this issue stated that "Having many doctors involved in your care can lead to confusion and miscommunication". As just one example of how this can happen, one M.D. noted "The likelihood of a medication error skyrockets when you receive care from multiple independent practitioners".

There is undeniably greater risk of prescribing medication or therapy that conflicts or interacts poorly with an unknown, underlying condition or other treatment when consulting multiple specialists and treatment types. Current thought in the medical field is that more is not necessarily better, and working through a single primary care practitioner reduces the chance of treatment conflict.

There are many self-care resources available, and some that have been extremely helpful to individual members of the fellowship. Most, however, tend to focus on a particular area of personal recovery, or a particular perspective from which to approach a problem(s). None that I'm aware of have the flexibility and power to address the complete catalogue of woes that I brought with me to the program.

As @hotrod noted, AlAnon certainly does not bar us from resourcing other help material. I myself read and have benefitted from many inspirational sources aside from program literature. But when I stumbled in to AlAnon, as an adult I was confused, exhausted, and desperate. Being able to focus on the basic principles of AlAnon without distraction of other, sometimes (even slightly) contradictory approaches to recovery helped me keep it simple. I found the strong, flexible framework on which to build my recovery and later, once I had some manageability in my life, additional healthy perspectives.

From a practical standpoint, and even using the medical analogy, it makes sense to use AlAnon as our primary caregiver in recovery. More importantly to me, out of respect to the AlAnon traditions, it seems like the least I could do for a program that has helped me so incredibly, and proven itself to so many others to be invaluable for addressing the complete nature of our character defects.

These are just my thoughts, my perspective...very grateful for the program

I just want to share my experience, I went to meetings on and off again for five years. I still go occasionally, sometimes once a week and sometimes once every two weeks...sometimes once a month. I want to go now. I don't need to go. That's the difference in me. I'm living a relatively sane life these days. I'm not perfect, but my life is 95% better than it was five years ago. I had to absorb the program and go heavily for a few years....like three or four times a week. I don't go to socialize. I only talk to a few people in the program, my mentor and my sponsor. I study,do step work and read at home. I do think I have to be able to work my program with no meetings, if need be. Otherwise in my opinion I'm not really sane, I'm just using my meetings as a crutch. I need to be able to sit with myself and apply my program wherever I am. That's just the way I am and the way I think though. I'm ok with quiet and don't need a lot of socializing. I know a lot of people that say they cannot go without face to face meetings. I love the program offers so many blessings and choices to so many, what works for one person may not work for another. Thank you for letting me share;)

 

 

I love the discussion and am using it to time mark my own recovery in Al-Anon and then both AA and Al-Anon since 1979.  I kept coming back using the same powerful, first, suggestion to follow day to day.  I can still find it in the closing of each and every meeting I attend and it is still the most powerful life suggestion I use to keep me participating,  "If you keep and OPEN mind...you will find help".  That suggestion was only to me...I knew nothing about alcoholism, alcoholwasm, alcohol abuse, chemical addiction...nothing.  I didn't even know that I didn't know.  I didn't call my alcoholic/addict wife anything relating to addiction...my life was over, I was a suicide candidate with a plan and the tools for the third time in my life and I had no where else to go.  I wasn't over joyed or even relaxed about being in an Al-Anon Family Group meeting...I had no where else to go.  I had not learned that my family of origin was chemically addicted and/or that I was also.   I didn't know and didn't know that I didn't know...dumb as a stick and at the end of the meeting I heard another suggestion which changed my behavior..."keep coming back".  I neither liked or disliked the fellowship and when I was with them I didn't ponder suicide or murder.   "They" intrigued me with their stories and I had to admit that had I been any one of them I would have already killed their qualifiers as I looked at what was to become a disease as an intentionally threatening behavior and I could certainly take care of threats.   It took me 5 years to "get it"...am I not glad I kept going back often and stayed alive.   I learned lots and still am learning lots.  I still live with the threat of the disease in that if for some reason I changes leave me I can and will "go back" (relapse) into old behavior which family, friends and many others found unacceptable and insane when I practiced them.  Alcoholism is a "life threatening" disease and not only is the alcoholic subject of it.  In the early definition of alcoholism which we use to open our meetings with (I am beyond grateful) the AMA mentions that "we, the family and friends of the alcoholics are just as affected as the alcoholic is with the exception that we do not have the anesthesia of alcohol to block out reality...thus we go thru the problem "wide awake" ....I understood quite fully that this phrase and lesson spoke directly to me and I had stopped drinking myself.  I knew insanity on a very personal basis and hated living out of control directed by someone elses drinking and drinking behaviors.

I cannot live in sanity without help and direction, without mentoring (other members) and to think that I might find myself faced alone in the disease again scares the life out of me. 

Am I addicted to Al-Anon?...The definition of addiction for me does not have the word choice in it...Compulsion instead...Compulsion of the mind as in the definition of alcoholism in part says "It is a disease of compulsion of the mind with an allergy of the body....."  I have few habits in my life today that insure my peace of mind, body, spirit and emotions outside of the program.  Is it a cult?  I got out of my cults.  This is a program for living.  The medical/psychological profession calls us a social model recovery program...one person helping another.  I go to help and in return I get helped.

I suggest you inventory what alcoholism and addiction did within your life and inventory the emotions that arise when you revisit the memories from the past.  Are you permanently insulated from the disease and consequences of it?  What's that look like?  Al-Anon offers no guarantees.  I'll keep coming back.    (((((hugs)))))

 

Great post