Hello Carewithann,

Your question is perfect! (It took me years to realise that I was feeling guilty about looking after myself )

Like Doingmybest I have experienced everything that you have, although I was very lucky with my first Alanon meeting when I walked into a room full of love and people who did not feel guilty about doing what they needed to make the very best of their lives. They didn't talk about their loved ones, they talked about themselves and they have been an inspiration for me ever since.

We do all need to vent because it is a lot less than we or our loved ones deserve and in our hearts we know it. I found it helpful to think about what I could do to take care of myself. It is lovely that you invite your husband to join you. It is his choice not to. That is his choice and to my mind love includes respecting the choices that our loved ones make.

I am still with my husband and he is two years sober. We have been married for 34 years and he was drunk for about half that time. I am not sure if he would have changed his behaviour much if I had not changed mine. One day I realised that my self esteem was suffering because I was accepting behaviour that undermined my sense of self. I promised myself that I would take care of my 'inner child' (cliche phrase but meant lightly!) and re-learn how to play and enjoy myself. I've been gifted a life and I think that I can honour that gift by enjoying it. I also figured that I was the one person that I had to live with in old age and that it would be helpful if I liked myself a bit more. I had started to become resentful, complaining about my husband and spoiling good times with friends by reliving hurtful memories. I wanted to be someone that I would like to spend my time with!! It took me a few months to get over the guilt of that and to stop beating myself up for being selfish. But now I think it is ok to wish for yourself what you would wish for others. It is ok to be happy regardless of our loved one's choices.

A book called 'Getting Them Sober' helped me a lot. The title is misleading since it is more about us than about the alcoholics in our lives. It helped me to see what was happening and to see that there was an alternative way of living.

One other thing that your post brings to my mind is the moment when I learnt that love included respecting the choices that others make. I was sad that my husband drank and didn't seem to enjoy life much. I felt sad that he didn't want to come and play. But I accepted that these were his choices and I didn't try to make him feel bad about them. Instead I just got on with spending my time doing things that enhanced my life. I tried to do it for me, but that didn't come easily initially, so instead I just thought that I would lead by example and have a great life regardless! Eventually he joined me.

One word of warning though - I do still harbour some resentments towards AH and they are getting in the way a bit now. I think that if I had started looking after myself a bit earlier and had been a bit more protective of myself these resentments would not be quite such a problem now.

I'd love to hear what sort of things you have on your wish list for yourself! For me it can range from time with friends to lovely wild walks on a windy day. I've been doing a course and that has been especially rewarding.

I'm so sorry you're in this situation, but glad you have found us.  I'm also sorry your local meeting was not a good experience.  Are there any others you could go to?  There are also online meetings on this site.

With alcoholics, the disease is in control, as you've seen.  And the disease wants a clear path.  The alcoholic is also just a mass of selfish wants, which is why they sometimes call alcoholics "King Baby."  Because of the alcohol and other factors, they never matured into a person who can compromise on what they want and be sensitive to the feelings of another person.

Because of this, it's all about control.  The disease wants what it needs to flourish.  So you've seen that in how your husband does only what he wants and doesn't consider your wants in the mix.

When we change things, the people affected put up a "Change back!" reaction.  Very especially if they're immature and/or alcoholics.  What they want is their only consideration, and their way of getting it is to raise an huge fuss.  Storming around, blaming, sulking, yelling, the silent treatment, slamming doors, threatening to walk out, walking out, refusing to leave, accusing us of causing the drinking ... they'll probably pick from a list like this. 

From my A, it was yelling and then walking out without warning, and disappearing for several days.  This filled me with terror.  Where had he gone?  Was he all right?  If something happened to him, was it my fault?  I couldn't settle down because I didn't know when he would come back.  One weekend he did this when I was waiting on the results of a test that suggested I might have cancer.  (In the end the test was negative.)  There I worried I might have cancer and instead of supporting me, he walked out without warning.  What a &*@!  I was so full of turmoil and fear - and yet when he stalked back in, I took him back.  Now I think I should have asked a friend over to stay and then changed the locks.  But I'm getting ahead of myself! 

Anyway, all of this is because they want their easy, drinking life and they want to control us to make it possible.  They want to enforce the unspoken rule, "You must not display in any way that my drinking causes any difficulty whatsoever."  They have two interests in life: drinking and enforcing this crazy rule.

So I'm afraid there isn't any way to be assertive about your own wants and needs without him reacting by becoming resentful, defensive, resistant, etc.  Because his goal is to control you and that's exactly how he does it.

But there's good news!  You can be assertive and attentive to your own needs and weather the tempest-in-a-teacup of the alcoholic's pathetic little attempts to keep you from doing it.  The tools of Al-Anon help greatly.  There's not just one tool, so you have to pick them up by reading, listening, practicing, maybe by having a sponsor.  The slogans themselves are great tools.  For instance, "You don't have to attend every argument you're invited to" means that when he starts in on why you're to blame, etc., you can just say, "Well, let me think about that" (or whatever) and leave the room or the house.

When the alcoholic sees that we're determined to honor our own needs, the tumult dies down.  The "Change back!" reaction diminishes hugely.  And then we're tending to our own needs, so we're getting stronger.  The stronger we get, the more the dynamic changes and gets healthier. 

Take good care of yourself!

He is already doing what he has to do for him (his disease) which is drink, make excuses, and push people away. So, when you "do what you have to" you can resolve the guilt because he is doing just the same. Even if he started going to meetings and got in recovery, he would still have things he would have to do for himself and his recovery and that would take much of his time and focus. So either way, it's good you do your own thing right now.

As far as not being able to make it on your own. I only even bring this up because lots of folks in alcoholic marriages where the alcoholic is the breadwinner stick around and allow themselves to be held hostage by buying into the concept that they are incapable of providing for themselves. Most of the time that is not the case. Not telling you to leave in any way, BUT, when you know you do have the choice and you could if you have to, that alleviates the trapped, helpless feeling to a degree. You could do it if you have to. But for today, you are using tools to stay sane and stay with an insane alcoholic (and yes - he does have alcoholic insanity even if he is able to work and such...everything else you described about him suggests his entire outlook and behavior is colored by the disease).

Keep coming back here! Keep us updated.

carewithann -

Welcome to MIP - so very glad you found us and glad you posted!

Many above me have shared some powerful ESH (Experience, Strength & Hope). I too can relate to your share and as you can see you are not alone.

In my marriage (24.5 years), what I have discovered is that IF my husband feels FORCED to attend (wedding, funeral, etc.), he'll make it miserable so he doesn't HAVE to do that again. It's not the man I married, it's the disease that is driving that behavior, and through the support of friends in recovery, I've learned that I don't have to be alone, or avoid outings because of his disease and/or his choices.

I came into this marriage with expectations. They may have been healthy and 'normal' expectations for others, but unrealistic with this disease. I have learned to take care of me and let HP take care of the rest.

Lastly, there are 2 meetings 'here' each day - check the top left for the meeting times as well as the link for the meeting room.

So glad you are here - keep coming back and know we're only a post away!

You guys are amazing

Thank you Carewithann - your post sparked lots of useful feedback. I've just reread your original message and smiled in recognition about not wanting to be a nag - something came up recently that my husband wasn't dealing with. For the first time in 30+ years I heard myself pointing out that I could deal with this issue if he wanted but I didn't want to cut his ball* off. Incredibly he dealt with the issue the very next day. It worked!!!!

As for not being a martyr - I found that my solution to that one is to do stuff I enjoy - it turned out to be fun! Whenever I feel a twinge of martyrdom I treat myself and do something lovely. If my husband does or says something to me that drags me down I adopt a policy of equal and opposite effect - i.e. I do something that gives me the same degree of good feelings as the bad ones he delivered by being nasty. It actually reached a point when any insults or neglect just bounced of my 'equal and opposite' armour!! The next thing was to start being gentle with myself - some of the worst put downs that I felt hurt by actually came out of my own imagination. I was doing it to myself!!!

I'm not particularly religious but I have a lovely 17th Century Prayer that I carry in my purse - I came across it when I was out and about with my mother and we giggled a lot at its truth and honesty so I'd like to share it here in the hope that it makes you smile as well -

A 17th Century Nun's Prayer:

Keep me from the fatal habit of thinking
that I must say something on
every subject and on every occasion. (Note to self - ooops! But I'll continue anyway.)

Release me from craving to straighten out
everybody's affairs.
With my vast store of wisdom
it seems a pity not to use it all,
but You know Lord that
I want a few friends at the end.

Keep my mind free from
the recital of endless details;
give me wings to get to the point.

Seal my lips on my aches and pains.
They are increasing, and love of
rehearsing them is becoming sweeter
as the years go by.

I dare not ask for grace enough to enjoy
the tales of others' pain, but help me
to endure them with patience.

I dare not ask for improved memory,
but for a growing humility
when my memory seems to clash
with the memories of others.

Teach me the glorious lesson that
occasionally I may be mistaken.
Keep me reasonably sweet;
I do not want to be a saint -
some of them are so hard to live with -
but a sour old person is one of
the crowning works of the devil.

Give me the ability to see good things
in unexpected places, and talents
in unexpected people.
And give me O Lord,
the grace to tell them so.

Having broken at least fifty percent of the points raised by that clever nun I'll just send you a ((((hug)))) and wish you a peaceful night!

love the poem milkwood. thank you for sharing that.