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The first thing I did today was call about daughter's Japanese classes. Discovered she has a spot, hooray!
Then sent the dreaded text to ex to say our daughter is going to be doing classes on Saturday mornings. Now 4 hours later my head is pounding and spinning, hands are shaking, and I feel like I am going to puke everywhere.
He tells me its not acceptable and we have to discuss it on the phone. He is sick of my "pathetic little games". This makes me see red. It shouldn't but its typical pot calling the kettle black stuff and it makes me mad. I tell him we can text or email, phone conversations are not productive. He calls me a keyboard warrior. Says I only communicate with him by text so i can 'control everything". What he means is, without yelling and manipulating the conversation with his passive aggressive nonsense, HE can't control ME via text message.
He says he will call. I say no, he says he will call. He calls, I don't know why but I answer. If I hadn't answered I'd still be upset and stressed now so, damned if i did, damned if i didn't. He starts off all meek and friendly and then starts insulting, blaming and criticising. I ask him quietly to stop insulting me, I repeat it a few times and he gets angry and hangs up. He calls back and the same thing happens; he wants to pretend to be the poor victim who's trying so hard, then the insults creep in, and the blame and he gets nastier and nastier until he is shouting. This time I hang up and I think...this is good, at least I remember why we never talk on the phone. Honestly why would I want to listen to someone who divorced me 12 years ago insult me? Why would he think that would be OK? Its mental.
Then the texts begin anew, he says he will call again later. I say no, that proved talking is unproductive, text or email only as before. He says
"that phone call was great, I'm going to call you every night from now on, I'm sure we can work it out"
and then "I'm sure you agree it's best for our daughter if we can sort out our differences so I will call every night until you answer".
???
How did we get from me saying we won't talk on the phone to him calling twice to insult, belittle and shout at me to...he's going to call me every night?
This is really getting weird and creepy and making me feel sick. And he's approaching it all as a victim and trying to push me to snap and be the aggressor which I must not do.
Sigh. Yay, fun times.
-- Edited by missmeliss on Wednesday 5th of August 2015 10:08:04 PM
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Can you get a recorder and let him know he can call but you will record all phone conversations?
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
I was thinking that LMH actually, it's a good idea
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
My ex got a whole lot less abusive when he knew that whatever he said on the record could be used as evidence against him. You can even state matter of factly that you will no longer be communicating with him without a witness. That's why you want texts, and why you will be recording all conversations from this point forward. I have a little digital recorder that hooks up to the computer to save them for future use.
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
LOVE reading your updates and seeing how much stronger you are! I think taping the conversations is a great idea though I'm not sure I would let him know :)
I would let him know because you aren't trying to trick him or catch him at anything - you are simply trying to get the both of you to do what's right for your daughter.
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
It's legally complicated actually. i'm going to seek legal advice regarding recording calls right now. this is so not what i need to be doing today
-- Edited by missmeliss on Wednesday 5th of August 2015 11:11:50 PM
__________________
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Ah, boundaries. How they irk unwell control freaks. Say what you mean, mean what you say, dont say it mean, let go and let god. Daughter has class on Saturday. Its his problem you've done your part. Phone calls lead to abuse, so no phone calls. Texts are always filthy so dont read em. Delete, ignore. Rumplestiltskin can dance through the floor. I mean really from the outside looking in, what's there to say to him? You've informed him. There's nothing to talk about. He simply wants to keep you mentally enslaved. Keep him out where possible, if possible. I think you are being perfectly reasonable and responsible. Two cents worth of course. Keep on keeping on.
I love you guys, I really do. Just having some supportive words today helped heaps.
I probably don't explain this situation very well and it might sound really trivial but it isn't. I feel really threatened and upset and I am SO sick of feeling afraid over what someone else is going to do next.
Anyway I called the DV hotline just to find out if they could refer me to any kind of free legal advice for women to talk about recording calls.....and I ended up talking to the dv counsellor for over 2 hours. She was amazing. She helped reinforce that my boundaries are perfectly reasonable, that I am a calm and reasonable person and that his behaviour- steamrolling over my boundaries, calling me crazy, yelling and then telling me I am yelling and general gaslighting is not in any way reasonable, and that it is absolutely acceptable for me to refuse face to face or phone contact and she suggested blocking my phone from him entirely and allowing only email contact to arrange visitation and also as others have suggested, visiting the local police and simply making myself known in a calm fashion.
It helped a lot just to speak to someone experienced with this kind of behaviour (she kept calling it "post divorce spousal abuse" and I kept thinking really? After 12 years?) but she REALLY got it and understood exactly what I meant when I said he intimidates me and then plays the victim. She said "there's a reason they call it crazy-making" and that woke me up to how much time I am investing in trying to reason with and understand insanity.
Anyway. She put me in touch with a completely new DV counselling service where I can have free counselling that is completely geared towards defending boundaries and being safe and in control which is just precisely what I need.
She also suggested that I write his name on a piece of paper and put it in the freezer and whenever his name is in the freezer, he's "on ice" and I can't worry about him. So don't ask me his name because it's in the freezer so I don't know
So I think this is a positive outcome.
I'm so grateful for my program today; it helped me stay calm, it helped me turn it over to HP and it helped me seek appropriate help. And helped me feel connected and not alone.
Yay
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
I am so incredibly happy for you to have gotten someone awesome and understanding on board. It is abuse and having someone recognise it and crack open the dark void it creates by acknowledging it for what it is, and labelling it accordingly as wrong and undeserved must be such a relief. Breaking the isolation has bought a powerful result, hugs to you.
Great move Ms.M. Love the freezer idea I have few people who could go "on ice: as well.
I agree with "a41 "do not engage with his person. Inform him of daughter's schedule and that is it ---No discussion period .Simply tell him I am informing you of the change in schedule and then simply "hang up" .
Thank you everyone. I've already gained some valuable information just in that one phone call. She told me what a family court would mandate so that I could use those tools effective immediately such as email only to arrange meeting times, meeting in public places only, and having a 'communication book" being a notebook that is handed over each time with any extra communication written within. I think they are great suggestions. I'm not interested in denying him access or creating any difficulties for anyone, I just want him to stop causing trouble and leave me the fire-truck alone. His personal attacks, insults, bizarre accusations and constant re-writing of ancient history are his problem, and nothing to do with me.
Very little of what he said today made any sense; it was all about how he has been such a great dad and I have done this, that and everything to make his life hard. My only comment aside from asking him to stop insulting me and stick to the facts was to point out that his refusal to contribute financially made it impossible to agree that he is a great father and his bizarre response was to tell me he "knows lots of single mothers on facebook, would I like him to get them to message me?" He kept repeating it and getting angrier and angrier until I told him that's enough, I'm going now and ended the call. Why he knows all of these single mothers on facebook and thinks it would be beneficial for them to message me can remain a mystery I guess
__________________
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Three cheers, Melly! I'm in the process of divorcing a similarly personality-disordered, control-freak person. One thing I learned is ABR (Always Be Recording). And while we have every right to have boundaries (in fact, it is a fundamental, ordained-by-HP right), we can expect a lot of pushback from those whom we used to allow to walk all over us.
What an act of HP to cross your path with just the right person to help you sort it out. Keep on keeping on!
I don't have anything to contribute other than more support for what you are doing and how you are doing it! I went through all of this with my ex-AH when my kids were still minors. You are handling this so much better than I did, and you have the program & toolbox. I didn't. I was so happy to see your post about your call to the DV hotline. Yay. Made my day and restored my faith in all that is positive in the world, that these places exist and DO help those who need it.
Big hugs .. Document document document and hey my x calls be goes to voice mail .. I have had some dosey stuff. Be safe and try not to give him more power than absolutely necessary.
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I loved this post - not because you were in pain and had to deal with your AH but because it's a perfect example of how Al-Anon works!
You posted with an issue and you posted facts + concern.
A couple of members gave you support and some suggestions.
YOU took action that was within your scope of influence, and YOU found another resource for support/assistance.
How FREAKIN' cool is this? I applaud your program, your action and your share - all of these help all of us to learn that there are other ways to deal with chaos and insanity.
Huge (((Hugs))) to you and your daughter! I know HP has you both in his hands and he's leading you both to the next page in this story.
Hugs pats of the back for having the courage to change the things you can - so proud of you.
Keep working it girl - it looks so very good on you!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
