I believed I was in love with my A,but since focusing on my recovery I now realize I am recovering from a sick need to fix another person.As far as'' feeling that kind of love again'',I hope I never ''feel that way again'' it was the most gut wrenching painful experience of my life.I have been separated for nine months now and I can't even imagine going back to that man that ''I was so in love with''.I don't know about dating yet,as I am actually enjoying my new found freedom.I do wonder if and when I start dating again what I will be like.I can certainly understand your uncertainties about your current relationship,it is new and different, and I am wondering what it will be like to be with someone who isn't crazy!Maybe instead of thinking about it being boring,you can say to yourself,it is so nice to have peace.

Great discussion and great topic.

Believe it or not, my AH and I had this very discussion before we were married. We decided together that Love is a decision. It's not a feeling, but a commitment. Needless to say for our discussion, we concluded and promised that no matter what happened, we would not quit on each other or on the marriage. So - I don't view love as a feeling....

In this program, I have learned that I must love me before I can be of any service/value to another. When I love me and am able to give freely, there is a peace/contentment/serenity like no other. I no longer look to another to fill me with anything. I look to another to compliment that part of me that's ready for new/different/exciting growth.

So - I don't view Love as an emotion or feeling but rather a decision/commitment. I believe what Betty says above is the ultimate goal for any relationship - whether it's an intimate one or a friend or a relative. A partner that you walk with, not in front of or behind. A partner that you can share openly without fear of retribution or retaliation. Someone who values you as you are with your assets and defects. Someone who when there is differing opinions can discuss and negotiate with love, facts and concern.

I also plan to never marry again. I am content with myself and have discovered that I can live/be/love with or without a partner in my home. It's been very freeing and liberating. I have many friends, both sexes, and choose to be around those who allow me to be me.

Looking forward to more discussion!!

I tend to agree with MissM  ... the love I had at 20 years old, for my first

husband (who was not an alcoholic, though I think that he had issues with

alcohol as a Viet Nam Vet and then I found out after I married him, he had an anxiety disorder)

was so different from the love I have for the present AH.  I did not re-marry

for at least 15 years and the present AH is not needy, if anything he is over

controlling.  I have to say that, since I joined Al-anon and have worked the

steps, slogans, etc., I have been able to reduce the drama to a trickle and

I am loving it!!  

 

This is a great topic,trust is definitely going to be a big one for me too.I think the more I am in tune with myself,the more I will be able to trust someone I get into a relationship with.Also,I am more independent so I won't be as apt to stay in a relationship because of fear.I think fear was at the bottom of a lot of my choices, and learning those red flags helps.

What a fabulous topic .. I know I "loved" my XAH the best I could and he "loved" me the best he could however on both sides it sucked bad. He had issues to deal with (yes of course I'm taking his inventory .. lol) however when I really look at our relationship I was so dysfunctional in my own thought process did we ever really have a chance (not saying I could have made the relationship or it's all my fault that it didn't work out) I sure did bring a lot of my own baggage to the game and obviously he needed my baggage to stuff his baggage. So there was a big old train and it was a train wreck is putting it mildly.

I am extremely gun shy as this time around I have other people to think about which means it is not just a him and me deal it is a him, me and 2 other people on my side and possibly kids on the other. Hard telling at this point, I have watched a younger girlfriend recently struggle with this very issue and it doesn't look like her relationship is going to last long term.

I'm honestly focused more on what I want and don't want in a relationship vs instant chemistry I can tell you without question if my heart starts doing a dance there is some serious other stuff happening because then my head jumps out of the way and I strictly operate on an emotional level soooooo NOT cool!!!

Right now I'm living with a very, very good girlfriend and her family .. I'm the OTHER teen in the house we laugh like crazy over that one .. without the distraction of my own child I see what works and what doesn't and what I see that works is a balance it's a dance between independence and coming together and then finding self without becoming someone else for the sake of the relationship. That's exactly what I do .. I become what I think the other person needs from me and I get lost in the shuffle.

I know I will never love someone like the A in my life and you know what .. I'm very ok with that idea .. I would rather love someone like I've never loved before and that initial love starts with me. It is so corny to say .. however until I learn to love myself I will not be able to love others .. I will be seeking outside to fill that gap that I need to fill within. Sorry for the ramble just so many thoughts streaming through my head at the moment.

Hugs S :)

I don't know about the people I date. I know I have preconceived ideas and goals which I tend to force and pursue with total tunnel vision. In relationships with damaged people, it stops me from having to fulfill my potential. Never conscious mind you, but fear and procrastination and alternative paths have been my downfall. When I consider coupling, I'm either over suspicious of the compromise aspect of being the female partner ( turning a blind eye; expectations of extra domestic responsibility, etc) or so down on the inside I trade those beleifs and people please. I have such a long long long way to go before copiloting in life and even with a programme, years of learned relationship behavior will be hard to break.

Wow love this post! I truly had to heal before I could love again, not that I didn't date right away, I did! I have never been good at being alone and at one point I made myself stay single and dig deep thanks to my beloved sponsor who helped me to see myself more clearly. Al-anon has taught me who I am and what I want out of a loving relationship and how to love someone else in a healthier way. I no longer cling like a codependent and feel so enmeshed that I can't breathe when I don't see my man for a week at a time. I have learned that healthy love is boring and it works well if I do the work and stay out of my head, which is not always easy. I have been divorced a few years now and each time I have dated a man I have gotten steadily better at picking them thanks to al-anon. I used to be so overly loyal to them that I would ignore my red flags, but not anymore and dating has taught me so many things about myself. Being vulnerable and putting yourself out there is not easy, add to that what some of us have been through with our A's, I know I was traumatized for awhile and had some letting go to do. I will always love my A, but I also know to stay very detached and to say what I need to say to him in regards to our kids.

When I learned to speak up for myself it was so uncomfortable and new, I felt powerful owning my own voice and decisions, not letting someone else run my life, and not blaming them for my misery. Going out at it alone is scary, but oh so freeing. I have struggled dating the man I am currently with and yes I love him and it is a healthy respectful love. This relationship is the first one of this kind for me and at times I still want to run for it, because of the things I have let myself put up with in the past. I can be submissive and that can be a problem, being self aware helps a lot, we communicate through issues, which is new, but very healthy. We both have kids and that can cause issues. When something arises I can dramatize it further, because of my sickness and I have to calm down and see things clearly. We were both with our exes for 15 years and it helps and hurts us to have this background. We have all been hurt and moving forward is scary, adventuresome and a huge list of emotions for me.


I can truly say after being divorced this long, I can and do love my boyfriend in a healthy way like no one before. I am still learning and growing and some times I shut down and pull back to figure out what is a big deal and what is not and that annoys my man to no end, but I rather take the time to make sure I am okay and what I need to say then keep pushing through and ignoring my needs. I do stop and evaluate our relationship and myself quite a bit and I just want to make sure we stay on track. We stay accountable to each other and so far a year and four months is the longest relationship I have had since my exAH and this is the best I have felt in a healthy way ever!

Andromeda --After many years in alanon I have learned to answer the question- "Who is the nicest and most awesome person you know"? by validating myself and saying" Me of coarse.". 

In addition, in order for my partner not to think that I was" for sale," I set the boundary as to what I would pay for when we were out on a trip and what he could pay for, that worked extremely well.

After reading all of your posts on this topic, it made me think back to the time when I first dated my AH and our journey together after that first date. He was very charismatic and full of life. He loved to host large parties and events- and be the life of the party. It was so exciting to be around him. I was 24 and he was 22. We both liked to "put back" a drink, or two, or three. We were young and had no boundaries then. We got engaged after only dating five months and were married 10 months after we first met. What a whirlwind! When I tell our "fast-track" dating story to twenty-somethings now, it all seems pretty crazy and not well-thought-out.

After 25 years, the wheels starting to come off of the roller-coaster car that was our marriage. He bought a bar, and drinking at the "office" (bar), became a daily routine. The more he would drink, the less I would want to be around him. The bar became the other woman, and she was much more fun and interesting than me. I took on the role of his parent- I scolded, ridiculed and judged. And that's how I found my way to Al-Anon.

At our 30 year mark, I left him and he died from this effects of his heavy drinking a year later.

Now that I'm in my fifties, I'm not looking to ride the roller-coaster again. I just want to coast. Whether that will be alone or with someone else, I just know in my heart that I am done with the drama and want to guard my precious gift of serenity.

GE

-- Edited by Green Eyes on Wednesday 22nd of July 2015 03:44:11 PM

Andromeda  Good work .

I believe that  Breaking Free's posting of the "Awakening" is a perfect response to this discussion . 

I was married to AH for over 25 years, It was quite the journey. It was a lot of things, it was fun, exciting, painful, dramatic. I never wanted anybody like I wanted him... He was handsome, charismatic, latin...I was obsessed. I don't know if it was love in the sense of having understanding and friendship and sharing and caring, I don't think it was any of those things. For I found myself devoted to him. I had no idea about addiction, alcohol or any of it. Nobody drank in my family, nor did I. He held a steady job and only drank on weekends, so I thought. The years went on and the drinking progressed. I think there were other women, but didn't know for sure.. He said he loved me, but I thought is love suppose to hurt.? Then the drama really started, I would throw him and his clothes out the window. I didn't know what this drinking was about. I felt I must be a terrible wife . That's his reason for drinking, he must be unhappy with me. I felt unworthy, for the first time in my life I was depressed. I had many tragic things happen to me, but none left me so depressed like this. I thought I was going crazy. So, I started to put on weight and went to overeaters and there I discovered Alanon. That was about 5 years into the marriage. That was an amazing day, that first face to face meeting, where I met other women suffering like me. I discovered he didn't drink because of me. I discovered lots of things about myself. I don't know what kept me in this marriage for so long. I would have done anything to stop the drinking. After 30 years of being with an Alcoholic, I cant even tell you if it was love or not. I did feel compassion for him and it destroyed me to see him destroy himself on a human level, in his drinking career he fathered twins with another women, he hit every bottom conceivable, with his health and loosing his job and being homeless and loosing his self dignity, I witnessed all that, its a heart breaker...he passed away two years ago, we had been living separate lives for 7 years....I still cry today, he was only 58 years old. I will never forget those days he was on life support with tears running down his face. Love???? There isn't enough to save an addict....Love is powerless over the beast of addiction. It will destroy anyone in its path....I have not dated or have even wanted to date anyone in 9 years. I am going to school to be an addiction counselor, that is the best way I can contribute and do something of value, while not destroying myself over it. I am not regretting my life with the addict, I gained much along the way. You can love in many ways. The addict will take much from you, probably more then any other man or women. And its ok to love an addict, just don't love them to death.
hugs, Bettina

Thank you Mattie and Beatrice for adding to this thread, because it brings up very important topics. I can already see that my new relationship is giving me problems with the passion and attachment but it comes from my end of things, not his. I actually create highs and lows in my own head without him even knowing about it and that's because I'm a relationship addict.

Honestly, I think that I need to work my program even harder now that I'm free from the alcoholic, more so than I did when I was living with active alcoholism because now I see just how crazy I had become after a lifetime of codependency and a lifetime of living with alcoholism (both with my dad and then my husband).

I have no idea if I will be in this new relationship tomorrow or next month or next year, but I do know that I have to continually work on me and on my issues. I don't think that will ever change. Letting go and letting God is most important right now for me. I just have to apply it and believe that my HP can supply everything I need and that I don't need another person to do it for Him.

Maine Girl, it sounds like you know what to do: put the focus on your recovery and on yourself. If he wants space, he wants space and he was clear with you about his desire to need that time. Try not to take it personal; I know it's easier said than done. We cannot control another person: their thoughts, their feelings, their desires, their attitudes, or their recovery(or lack thereof). This is part of our disease. We have a disease of perception and we must work very hard to trust our Higher Power and know that no matter what, things will work out for our good. Life is painful and I think I had to find acceptance in the fact that I was never guaranteed a life without pain, but I know that I can have a life with serenity and peace when I work my program the best that I can.

It does seem to me that early in a relationship there are more highs and lows, and that's natural.  You (I mean the regular person hoping for something longterm, not just only Andromeda - I mean all of us) are eager to see where it goes, yet cautious about committng too fast or overlooking red flags.  And the history we Al-Anoners have shows us how painful it can be when we get it wrong.  Though non-Al-Anoners often have a lot of pain from wrong relationship too.  Anyway, we're in those early stages of hope yet caution, and sometimes we're thinking, "This is really good, I'm getting really excited, could it be that this relationship really has what it takes to go the distance?  Oh boy!"  And then something challenging happens and we're thinking, "Whoa Nelly, wait a minute, maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, oh no, I must not overlook the red flags again, I have to stay cautious.  Maybe I've been overeager and fooling myself.  This could be really disappointing."  It's hard not to get our hopes up, and natural to feel bad when our hopes seem overoptimistic. 

Whereas when people are in longterm relationships and they've been together ten or twenty or thirty years of fairly consistent harmony, they already know their partner's foibles.  They're not constantly reassessing.  They can think, "Yeah, he got home late for dinner and forgot to call, but I know he does that, and I know he wasn't out gambling or sneaking drinks or checking his Ashley Madison account.  It ticks me off sometimes when the meal gets cold, but overall this is a good relationship and I love him, so I'll just roll my eyes at him and let it go."  But we folks who are early in the relationship are naturally thinking, "He's late again.  What does this mean?  Is this trivial or is it something that's going to happen regularly?  Is it part of a pattern I'd better be paying attention to?  Is he doing something he wants to hide, like my ex did?  I'd better stay on the alert and figure this out."  So I think it's natural to have more emotions in the new scenario than in the longterm scenario.

I guess what I'm saying is that I think to a certain degree, more peaks and valleys are built in to early relationships, as we get to know the territory.  Obviously creating drama isn't helpful.  But that deep and more peaceful love comes with time, and we can't expect it early on.