The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Daughter's father has been attempting to engage me in "talking" lately. I never know exactly what he means by this because we don't communicate well and the "talking" always ends with either he expressing bizarre and kind of offensive concerns (like, recently, "should we discuss how to use condoms with our 12 year old daughter" (he's just so far from knowing where she is at or who she is, dude she's 12....) or, it ends with me trying to be cordial and he interpreting my words as proof of my own insanity.
As an example, a while ago he wanted to "discuss parenting" and he was talking about "helicopter parenting" and I expressed to him my concern that some people cover their children in sunscreen at all times, even in the middle of winter, and that's bad because people need to absorb some sunlight so that they can make vitamin D. A few weeks later he informed my parents that he was very concerned about my mental health because I said that my child has "some kind of special magic skin that can't be burnt by the sun". Yeah that's pretty much not what I said. (Just for the record, I don't think my child is some kind of magical dragon-skinned super-hero, I just dont think it's good for people to never absorb sunlight)).
Or when I mentioned that I had been going to yoga classes and he called me a few weeks later to tell me he thought I should "be fair and let our daughter go as I had obviously joined a cult". (He's not even religious and the weird part is, he was always Mr Hippy Free-Love when I was with him, so I just discuss things that I think will make sense to him).
Anyway I got sucked in again recently. He just wanted to be civil and "be on the same page".
We discussed the state of the world. I mentioned to him that there was an incident recently where they cordoned off the train station and people in chemical-weapons suits hosed down people at the train station as a drill for a chemical weapons attack on the train. It was in the news so it wasn't obscure knowledge, it just happened to take place right near me a week ago and I said to him I had found it unsettling and I said, "so if anything bad like that ever really happened, where do you think would be a good place to meet up?" I personally don't think there is anything crazy about a)having a demonstration for a terrorist attack take place near your house and then b) discussing what you might do if it really happened.
I'm not saying I have a basement full of canned goods and bottled water or anything, I was just making conversation...the SAME kind of conversation we use to have all the time when we were together so it seemed like an easy topic to discuss. (Actually I have a few days worth of food and water in the garage, is it really insane to prepare for a possible shortage or blackout? To me that is rational).
So last weekend I went to collect my child from her father's and she was very unpleasant to me. She was looking at me as if she was disgusted with me which was really horrid and then she said "so my Dad tells me you have been sending him weird emails about how the apocalypse is starting".
I felt like I had been punched in the gut. I spent 3 hours coming to get her, in a good and positive mood, and then as soon as we were alone it was as if his crap was being delivered to me via her.
To start with she was angry with me when she went to his house on Friday night.
Why? Well, she was very demanding on Thursday night. She was wanting me to do everything from do her homework to virtually spoon-feed her and give her a sponge-bath. I was rattled by it and it was midnight before I finally sat down to do my own work. In the morning she came stamping into my room, rudely demanding this and that and at 5am after maybe 2 hours sleep, I wasn't pleased. She stormed out the door displeased with the service.
I couldn't get back to sleep and I decided to do something fun for myself. I watched the entire last season of Game of Thrones. I don't care if that's an unproductive use of a Friday. I needed a break. I had hit my limit. When she got home from school she had forgotten her keys and apparently she was banging on the front door for half an hour (which probably means about 15 minutes) and I didn't hear her because I was sitting in my shiatsu massage chair with my feet in my foot-spa watching GOT very loudly. She had so much hate in her eyes.
I'm a person, not servant. It means a lot to me to have realised that. When I checked my facebook she had been outside the house sending me really nasty messages..."let me in B***H I hate you" etc. For the love of God is it my fault she forgot her keys and she was stuck outside for maybe 15 minutes? I was pissed. I really don't feel that it's OK for my child to call me "b**h" when she experienced a moment of discomfort.
So tonight she announced that she wants to leave her school and go to a co-ed high school. After all I have sacrificed to get her to the high school she wanted to go to, after all that has been spent. She says she is failing everything and she just wants to go to a co-ed high school.
I have, for a long time, felt as if the only reason my child stays with me is the fact that I am so lassez-faire and she can do whatever she wants. So I have been a meek mother. Afraid to lay down the law. Because I'm scared she only stays with me because I am weak and let her do what she wants. Not tonight. I called on all of my al-anon tools and every new resource I have and I asked her some questions. And I made some new and I think very reasonable demands. She will stay at her high school and complete her special learning program. Her program is for smart kids and they do 4 years of high school in 3 years. Then they make choices. I told her she will complete those 3 years and I will fight dirty to make sure she does. After that we can discuss senior high. After that she has options. In the mean time, if she feels she needs to socialise with boys, we can do youth groups, we can negotiate social events. But I'm not backing down on this. If she isn't happy she can suck it up. I will stay close with her and talk with her teachers. But as far as I am concerned she chose a program and people- me- my grandmother-and my mother have sacrificed a lot to make it happen. She doesn't get to ask for this level of support and then just abandon it.
Obviously I'm not good at having a 12 year old. It's in my nature to just let people do what they want to do. Authority is so foreign to me.
My life is so fractured and sad because I wanted to support her choice.
I would really welcome support from other mothers right now.
-- Edited by hotrod on Monday 22nd of June 2015 04:16:38 PM
__________________
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Great work Ms.M You stood your ground, said when you needed to say and offered viable alternatives for socializing. The teen years are so difficult I had a male co worker who had 8 boys and he always said (jokingly) that he wished he could bury the children in the back yard at 12 years old and dig them back up at 21--- by then they were reasonable and polite people :)
I can remember one year when my son was about 16 , he did not purchase a Mother's day card for me. I waited all day and debated if I should speak up . Finally I did--- I was not mean or demanding but did point out that I was his Mom and since I acknowledged all his important events I wanted to be recognized on Mother's day in the future. I thought I was being small doing this, but I must say he never forgot Mother's day again even in the last difficult years.
People do treat you the way you teach them to do so
Use your alanon tools and if possible see if she will enter a alateen program . It would work wonders .
Well - I must suck too....and I was not a push-over at all.
My boys both began experimenting with mind-altering substances by 13, and I am not 100% sure when they began experimenting with girls/sex. I thought we'd done everything right - boy oh boy - peer pressure and outside influences are larger than life.
Both my boys were in 'Gifted Program' which is advanced classes such as you describe. It was at the normal school and it did not work out well for us. They were bullied, ridiculed, teased, etc. by many who were in the general curriculum. They both actually left their high school to attend alternatives - one of my sons went to another high school in the district; my other son asked to go to the military school a bit away - very expensive - 2 year commitment.
We obliged and he quit before the 2nd year.
While we have control because they are minors, it doesn't stop them from being their own people, good and bad. I agree with the bury them until 21.....we might have had better outcomes.
There are many things I wish were different and many things I wish I had done different. One is exactly what Betty suggest - support through Alateen - we tried everything else - counselors, etc. I got state, county, city resources involved as well as school resources when I realized there were issues. I am still not sure what actually derailed my boys and accept I may never know.
Use this program to do the next right thing. Practice patience and it will be as it is supposed to be.
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Mel, I was a teenage girl and one day ill have a pair of them. At your daughters age, I was a crappy daughter, I can say that now that I'm also a mum. Lol. Seriously though, when I look back, what I needed and wanted was boundaries.a sense of order. Someone to make me learn completion. I don't know what your daughters special ed is, at her age I was put into an accelarated learning programme and I was scared. I didn't know I was scared but I was. So I aced all my English based classes and bombed at maths, but no one noticed. And somehow I convinced myself I didn't belong. My point is this. You are her mother. Its your job to be on her tail as you see fit, with your fitness being at a healthy Standard of course. A lot of effort has gone into her schooling. She needs to meet you there too. What are you afraid of when you say afraid to lay down the law? Laying down expectations is not a bad thing. Its a good thing. Its a pathway to responsibility. Yes, she's had it a bit rough in places, but she's also got you a mother who is trying her best. Don't be guilted into stuff. Sometimes we don't like our mothers, its all good. Respect is a crucial aspect of love, like be damned. My 2 cents. Which I want back in ten years when mine are her age.
My AW had disengaged, A parents, and she wishes now that somebody just would have told her the right thing to do. She may not have done it, but she would have gotten the sense that there was somebody at least looking after her. Your daughter is immature and doesn't yet know how to express herself, but she needs the direction and love, which you are giving her.
OK .. my children are truly warped because they are with me because I have rules to run by .. my daughter who is now 16 has actually verbalized to me that she feels less safe with less rules like her dad who basically lets the kids do whatever and then gets mad because he doesn't like the results he gets.
There is a happy medium and honestly kids need to know a certain amount of freedom balanced with the rules of the roads so to speak.
Missy I think you do just fine considering what you have had to go through .. something I will tell you and this is coming from someone who views their own mother as weak and honestly that is an unfair judgment on my part .. my mom was so inconsistent that I have serious issues with authority and it was a weird mix of control issues as well as her fear I wanted to live with my dad even though looking back he was nutty as a fruitcake.
Best rule of Alanon when dealing with children of all ages .. mean what you say .. say what you mean and don't say it mean. I will tell you straight up and my kids would both be like umm yah that would be our mom .. lol .. my kids verbally abuse me with name calling .. ohhhh it would be on and what I mean by on is the bedroom door would be off, there would be no electronics and everything would be on lock down .. we do not do name calling in the house towards each other .. I need to practice that one about their dad .. oh well .. progress not perfection. The kids will both tell you I've got no problem with them saying this either .. there are no no's and then there are NO NO's .. obviously I feel strongly about that one. That being said they understand my mom and I have a very strained relationship .. I love her .. however I have to love her from a distance. There has always been tension and I'm open with the kids about my behavior and some of why I think the way I do .. no face slapping my mom was a face slapper and that stopped when I smacked her back .. I was a teen at the time and I"m pretty open about yah that was out of line and honestly I didn't do anything wrong per say. Unnecessary stuff like that so over it. I'm sure we have brought some giggles to people around us because we use sign language and I know some of the military signs so my son and I can be across the room and he knows the gesture I give for it's time to leave and it's just time to go. I don't do negotiations .. it's not a hostage situation .. lol. Some people would be horrified for me it's survival of a single parent. I am sugar and steel it's not an option as a single mother. Ohhh one time my youngest pulled the I want to go live with dad and used it for manipulation purposes because he wasn't getting his way .. one time was all it's ever been .. I headed to his room and started packing his stuff .. he was so stunned and he wanted to know what I was doing .. I said not playing this stuff with you child .. you want to live with your dad let's pack. I love you I think it's a poor choice .. however .. I respect the fact that's how you feel and I'm not going to fight you. He said that's not what I meant mommy .. I told him .. it's not ok to use tactics like that to get your way .. I'm to old and I don't have the energy for game playing and fear tactics. That was the only time and I laid that boundary big time .. I will not be emotionally blackmailed .. end of story.
Another thing we do in our house is there is a lot of dialog about things .. I don't do guilt .. it is what it is .. life isn't fair so sorry .. I missed that line during my creation too. lol. They can tell me how they honestly feel or I hope they feel that they can my daughter and I have had some candid conversation and she has told me .. I know when I can approach you and when it's probably not a good idea .. lol .. I told her that's good that means I don't have to eat my young .. ha ha.
Seriously .. be consistent .. I wish my mom would have given consequences she was willing to follow through on. It was very conflicting to figure out what she meant, she did not mean what she said and there were many times it was definitely not said nicely. Yes there is such a thing as being to nice .. that pretty much qualifies as being a doormat/victim and my mom was definitely a door mat a manipulative door mat .. however she wants it all ways .. lol.
I find my X does a similar dance with the kids. They get irritated with him. I mean the whole emotional blackmail, no consistency, they know when someone is being authentic and then know when someone is being a jack wagon. I have been called a jack wagon .. and that is ok .. it was true and it sucked because there is nothing like getting called out by your own behavior by a 9 year old .. ugh. That's totally different than my kids swearing at me or name calling .. nope nope and nope.
Anyway, big hugs ..
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Thanks ladies and gents for your replies.
It is giving me a lot to think about.
I don't think, really, I am as weak a mother as I perceive myself to be. I think my daughter feels safe with me, I really do. I just find this whole parenthood caper is so challenging to my own ideals. I'm like the quintessential libertarian so authority is a very hard uniform for me to wear. I'm so unsure of myself internally but externally I'm pretty sure I'm mostly reasonable and firm as a parent. The reason I mention the frustration of trying to talk to her father is just, I feel like I don't have another adult to bounce things off; I don't have anyone to back me up and tell me I am "doing the right thing" and sometimes I feel as though I am suffering because of it. Any time I try to do what I think I am entitled to do- talk to her father and feel supported- I walk away thinking poor Melly, she has no-one to help her, she's such a victim, she's all alone. But I'm not poor Melly, not really. I get to navigate this journey all by myself and that is a blessing. For both of us because the stronger I get, the more I model for her what a strong woman looks like. And that is the ultimate gift I want to give her. I want to teach this kid to be strong and self-assured and capable of generating her own joy no matter what anyone else does. That's my mission as a mother. It's a gift she gives back to me because having her made me want to be strong and happy to show her how to be strong and happy. It's beautiful, really. Synchronicity in motion. Thanks, HP.
I do hesitate to take control because I absolutely fear that she will go and live with her father and I have thought it through and through and it ISN'T because I am scared to be alone. If it ever happened I would just move somewhere close by and enjoy the freedom to make a living for myself and have my door wide open for her always. It would be OK, I could handle it, even be quite happy under those circumstances. But I am afraid for her to live with her father because I know, I KNOW he sees her as a right, a commodity to make him feel better. I see the way he is with her and it turns my stomach. Sometimes I think he is grooming her as a "back-up plan" in case he ever finds himself without a wife to take care of him. He doesn't know her, or enjoy her. Even when he is really trying to be a "good dad" he has no idea; he doesn't get the concept of "getting to know her", he just has this idea of how a young girl is and he tries to force her into that mould. He wants parenthood to be something that makes HIM feel good, and it just isn't that way. I don't want that for her. I don't want her to grow up as "someone else's point of reference". I grew up like that. My life was about how I made my mother feel. No, no, no, no, no. But if it happens, then like everything, there will be benefits. She will learn things and eventually become stronger because of them. That's how it works. It will be OK.
Do you know what struck me after writing this, reading replies and really thinking about it?
She "caretakes" him. She doesn't "caretake" me. She can be absolutely vile to me. I think because she knows I'm quite all right and I can take care of myself. I think that actually tells me that I'm doing OK as a mother.
It's funny how I see myself as a useless passive victim and when I actually look at the evidence, I'm not.
Is it odd that I see mothering my daughter as the most important thing in my life? When I hear from people that have multiple children it throws my perception off; I can't imagine it. I know she can't be the only thing I care about. But when I look at the world outside of that it seems so empty and gigantic.
I'll share something that is hard. When I became pregnant with my girl I was utterly suicidal. I spent every waking minute trying to work up the courage to end myself. It's a family illness; I remember when my now very alcoholic brother was only 8 years old with his head in my lap, crying and crying and asking me "what does being happy feel like?" and I had to admit that I didn't know. I never knew what "happy" felt like until I became a mother. I don't know of anything else to care about. So she is my reason and the greatest gift I have ever received. That's why I talk about her so much. I know I am not all there but isn't that why we are here?
__________________
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Hi. Ms.M I am happy that while writing this share you were able to see yourself with such honesty, and clarity and by so doing accept your strengths and purpose. Being a" MOM" is the greatest gift we can receive and the best and most difficult job we will ever hold.
The reading in the C2C today speaks of the importance of "honesty" to our recovery The reading states that we need to be truthful with ourselves and continue to review our attitudes and actions each day as in the 10th step. This allows us to be humble enough to reach out to others as equals and to continue to grow in every area of our lives. It also points out that it takes courage to be honest and that the courage we need can be found in our continuing relationship with HP.
The reminder for today states that Honesty is an essential part of the 12 steps. The quote is from Marcus Cicero; "where is their dignity unless there is honesty"? Trust the process and HP
I have accepted I'm on my own when it comes to asking or expecting a rational response from my X. He doesn't think like I do and while I wish I did have that other perspective .. I have to have other outlets. I come here, I have other single moms as well as I talk to divorced men who have kids that don't live with them to gain that perspective. It doesn't sound like your X is ok. If my kids ever figure out how to double team me I'm totally screwed lol. Going to my X looking for a rational response is the old alanon saying of it's like looking for bread at a hardware store .. Yeah I might find it .. Do I really want bread with sawdust in it? Not so much. If your parenting style works for you that's all that matters. It's a difficult world we live in and the best I can do is try and raise two healthy functioning kids. As a single parent it's not easy.
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Thank you for your honesty. I often feel i have no one to bounce things off of.........lately I,ve had counsellor at a recovery home to discuss my son,s behavior with. As most often happens the situation/behavior is far more unacceptable than I am able to see alone. I grew up in an abusive alcoholic family I often wonder wht its like to grow up knowing you are loved. I don't know what functional looks like and I wan my children to know I love them...REALLY love them no matter what.Thanks for reminding me love doesn't mean accepting unacceptable behavior or abuse.
