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Miracles In Progress 12 Step Recovery Forums -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Boundaries
Post Info TOPIC: Boundaries
Flower49


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Boundaries
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I am trying to figure out how to discuss this with my A. We have some boundaries in place that we both agreed on. One is that if he knows he will not be home within 20 minutes after work, AA whatever it is he is doing he will call and I too do the same. As of the past couple of weeks, suddenly he no longer calls and when asked about it he has an excuse such as oh I thought it was ok not to call or well I was just talking with guys or the best one is that he is sick of all the deals we made.

Next, there is a convenience store a few blocks from our home, one that offers drug paraphenlia under the guise of something else but we all know what it is. Also, my A's old playmates hang around there, shop there etc. We agreed that under no circumstance does he need to be going to that store, none period. Today he decides to tell me he went there because it was just so much quicker for him. Another boundary broken. I was happy with myself that I didn't get insanely crazy and blow up, but I don't know how to bring this up. I don't know how to address the broken boundaries.

I want to say I don't care if it's much quicker for you to go there, or that you don't have time and it's easier, the deal is you will not be going to that establishment and now that you took it upon yourself to do so, our trust we are trying to rebuild just got derailed. I also think this is a step backwards and that quite honestly sub-conciously you are planning a relapse, otherwise why would you be there? No excuses in the world matter. As of the past couple of weeks he also says he is sick of this routine and that he just wants to not have to go to meetings at night and wants to just do stuff at his house, which equates to sleeping in the recliner. I told him I can't tell him what to do about his recovery, only he can decide that, but don't deceive himself that ditching meetings, not participating etc is what will help him.

Then I think I shouldn't say anything because he is grown up and can make his own choices, but it just feels like the old days of walking all over my boundaries and that makes me crazy.



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Linda

Don't worry about tomorrow, tomorrow will have it's own worries

Matthew 6:34
mjferg


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Just reading this brings back so many memories.I tried the same thing with my A.The only thing I have learned is, he has to want to do it.Nothing I say or do is going to change that.I also understand the disappointment,the sinking feeling,the despair,yes.Feeling crazy,yes.The only place I have found that can help me is my meetings and God.I had to come to a place of such despair that I had to find peace for myself.



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Mary
WorkingThroughIt


~*Service Worker*~

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Live and Let Live

Then I get to make my own choices too.

I wanted people to be what they weren't so I could have what I wanted.

That last line sums up every emotional problem anyone has ever had.

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Flower49


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I guess what makes me upset is - in marriage counseling the boundaries were set and now I am expected to just Live and Let Live, however in a marital relationship I don't think it's beyond reason to expect that you hold up your end of the marriage. So I still don't believe I will say anything to him about the boundaries broken and let him guess....just kidding.... I am going to bring it up Saturday with our counselor and make it very clear for the last time that it's not ok to step on boundaries and not hold up your end of the bargain. I really don't know other than that how to handle this. The last time he was active it started off just like this, so at least I have more awareness, more tools and a whole lot more thought of taking care of me first and what will be best for me.

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Linda

Don't worry about tomorrow, tomorrow will have it's own worries

Matthew 6:34
KennyFenderjazz


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He is a grown up and can and has make his own choices.  His choice was to ignore something that you both agreed was important to you,and at the time you both thought was important to his recovery.  

Now you have the choices to make on how to respond.  I would imagine that the boundaries were put into place to make sure that you both knew that he isn't drugging anymore and now that is in doubt.  If he came home tonight and stuck a needle in his arm or pulled out a pipe right in front of you, what would be your response to that?  I would think that would be the same response to these boundaries being broken, since you now have doubts about his recovery.

It sounds exactly like when my wife wasn't in recovery but we set boundaries, and she suddenly didn't keep one because she "didn't think it was that big a deal".  Well, it was to me, otherwise I wouldn't have asked that we set it, and, before she was an A, she never would have said that.  And it led us all down into the slippery slope of her getting a second DUI, two years probation, enforced rehab, etc. huge lawyer's fees etc.

And why are the boundaries only for during counseling?

Kenny



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Flower49


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Hi Kenny, I always love your words of E/S/H First let me clarify about the boundaries, we started setting these up in the presence of our counselor for a couple of reasons, one being that I tried it when my AH was away in his 1/2 house, 3/4 way house and he just couldn't fathom why nor respect them. So we took them in baby steps, next we do it with our counselor so we could learn about being fair and equitable to each other. You are very right he is a grown up and has choices to make and so do I. We put the boundaries in place not so much about the importance of his recovery, but more for my recovery and my needs which he just can't seem to understand he does have responsibility in part for and he can't be trusted and they are set up to help us regain some trust in the marriage. If he goes back to using he knows, I know, everyone knows he can never darken my door step again...he will be out no questions asked. Maybe I am just being hyper-sensitive but a while back someone told me to trust my gut and don't question it....I have heard some of the verbiage he is starting to use again prior to relapse, heard the excuses etc and it is concerning, yet I am supposed to stay in my lane and say nothing?....being married convolutes somethings for me anyway.

These "little" slights of ignoring boundaries are to him "little slights" and too me they are big red flags, and I am questioning myself on "Am I making a mountain out of a molehill because of the past?" Am I that afraid of old behaviors that the slightest disregard for agreed upon things can just really mess me up? Do I just tell him move along because I am seeing back sliding....it's sometimes I think worse to know what to do when they have a little sober time under their belts. I say that because I have learned all about what it is to do when actively using, but now when these things come up while he is being sober it's just different on being understanding, accepting, tolerant whatever it is I should be in the moment and trying to develop a good marriage. I want to take this to the counselor on Saturday and talk about it there because that is a safe environment and the counselor is objective to him and me, which gives me a different viewpoint before I shoot myself in the foot and he is also really good at helping my AH to stop shooting himself in the foot.

Fear and lack of trust is driving my thinking right now, so I need to get myself together and use the tools.

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Linda

Don't worry about tomorrow, tomorrow will have it's own worries

Matthew 6:34
Jerry F


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Flower if you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot again give away or throw away the gun.  Not so much sarcasm as it is being reminded of our definition of insanity after reading your post.  You have tried and made changes in the past and your have arrived at negotiation with the alcoholic in the past and present and still the same thing is happening and the fear of it continuing with his feed back that he is sick of the process.  My sponsor gave me a very positive lesson when he taught me to "kill my expectations of the alcoholic/addict who was not and would not participate in her own recovery because my expectations began to be resentments.  One of our slogans is "Keep it simple" and I learned to love it because I have the freedom to say was I mean, mean what I say, don't say it mean and follow thru with it with out bargaining.  I all the other person the dignity of the consequences of their choices even when I'm part of the process.  Boundaries are for me to make sure I keep mostly because it is my side of the street I need to keep tidy.    Keep coming back (((((hugs))))) smile



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Mark17


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WorkingThroughIt--where does "live and let live" come into play here?

This is something I never figured out during my marriage. My XAW would go out, get drunk, not come home at night, and put me into crisis. If I were to "live and let live" then--what? I let her do that, try to not be worried/anxious/concerned for her well-being? I just let that go on? I also felt manipulated and disrespected as a result because to me, common courtesy in marriage would be to communicate where we're going to
be...

Ultimately, I guess, to me "live and let live" means "you live your life and I'll live mine." That could be a total separation then: living like roommates. Separate finances too, while we're at it. But we still can't see other people because we're married and the other might not be okay with that.

So why stay married? I didn't.

I guess I don't fully understand where "detach with love" and "live and let live" fit in because where the institution of marriage is getting so thrashed by the addictive behavior, divorce and find someone truly capable of loving you rather than just their addictive substance(s). Now if kids are involved then this gets much trickier but in general terms, can you explain the "live and let live" concept a bit more?

Thanks!

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mjferg


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For me it was the stark realization that I had to be the one to change.There were two people on this merry go round and someone had to get off.I tried everything,yelling,crying,bargaining,but nothing changed.I thought about the reasons people change, and we don't usually do that unless we have to. I came out of denial and looked at my situation honestly,I was miserable and tired of chaos.Why would he change? He had the merry go round that he wanted!He had a roof over his head,someone to take care of him,no responsibilities,He had his enabler!I decided to stop enabling,excusing,helping,etc. I stopped arguing, and that was when he became more aggressive,he wanted to fight as an excuse to drink.I stopped coddling and babying and he didn't like that.Oddly enough he was the one who told me to pack his bags,he was sending someone to get them.You see I was changing and he didn't want to,he moved in with a girl who uses,that is what he wants.That is "live and let live".When I started becoming true to myself,he became uncomfortable with the relationship and went to someone who was  sick.That is what he wants but it wasn't what he wanted.



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Mary
Mark17


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Thanks for sharing, Mary!

In my case too, she was ironically the one who filed!

I didn't work so hard to change her... I tried to be patient and let her
program run its course, etc. I tried to be supportive but she kept
denying, kept blaming me, and that's what wore me thin.

Here's another dilemma... is it enabling or is it taking inventory of
them? Someone posted the other day that they took too much
inventory as opposed to "live and let live"ing, I guess. My
XAW had more than just alcohol to abuse... she abused food,
my credit card, and she never picked up after herself. Eventually
I called her on it. I said I wanted her to work on all these
things and I would support her.

Tolerating all these things and not saying anything was
certainly enabling... but to call her out on it, was that me
taking too much inventory of her? I think it could be seen
that way but therapeutically, I think I was totally legit in saying "I'm
not going to tolerate the addictive behavior anymore." I'm
setting that boundary...

Anyway.

Mark

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mjferg


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For me, anything that was detrimental to my life,as in financial dishonesty,any kind of abuse,etc. I feel it is my right to say something and not tolerate it.Anything else is my need to control.In the end my ex just became resentful of anything I said.

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Mary
Iamhere


~*Service Worker*~

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Mary -

I agree ... my boundaries are about self-preservation and self-protection. Beyond that, I am just trying to control or punish, neither of which results in anything constructive or positive.

Asking my As to not drink is like asking a smoker to quit smoking. Asking my As to not drink around me if attainable. We have a 3 story home and I've carved out my safe places. There are ways to create boundaries that are healthy and protective without controlling another, which I don't want to really do any how any more....

(((Hugs to all)))

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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 
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