The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I had a phone conversation with ABF tonight. We talk every few days and I have to say, he's been doing well (according to my definition of well) for months now. He calls, we talk, he's kind of meek if anything and very respectful. He hasn't shown any signs of unpleasantness for ages not is he pushy. I last spent a night with him about 6 weeks ago, he came for a night and helped me do some of the crappy newspaper delivery job I do, watched a few movies, got enthusiastic about helping me move some stuff out to the shed and tidy up, brought his own food and cooked me a meal. The next day he went driving with me as I am still low on confidence driving to certain places. It was nice. I expected it to turn into something bad...ie him refusing to leave or turning up drunk a few days later or something but it didn't. He hasn't pushed me or given me a hard time, we just chat on skype for maybe 15 minutes twice a week, make vague plans to see each other "in a few weeks" and the rest of the time we go about our business. He sends me a hug emoji most days; its sort of like having an online relationship which is weird after almost a decade of being physically together every waking minute. He talks about "one day when we can live together again" and I say I don't think that will happen but maybe we can do it my way and live apart but date and we agree to disagree. He's doing a course now and he's actually been turning up every day (I shouldn't know that but his public transport card is part of my account because I used to pay for it and I can see when he catches buses and trains; I don't normally look but the other day curiosity got the better of me and I did check and it shows him going to and from his course each day. I know that wasn't a good thing to do but I did, I checked to see if he was really going to his course. I'm weak and nosey. It was wrong. What can I say? )
Anyway he seems to be doing a good job at life lately and it's nice to see. He did come here about a week ago with his brother so that he could pick up his lawn-mower, the reason being that he is going to need a car when he finishes his course so he can hopefully start working and he is going to be mowing lawns to save for said car. It's all very sensible "one foot in front of the other" stuff and I'm enjoying seeing him this way; it's like he's alive and participating in his own life for the first time in many years. Not that I have any expectations pinned on this, please understand, it's just nice to see him taking positive actions and being happy right now. When they visited he brought 2 cartons of milk- one was my expensive organic soy milk and the other was his generic kind of milk so that I could make coffee for us. I was flabbergasted that he knew which brand of soy milk I drink (there are like 25 different kinds at the supermarket) and that he was willing to pay $4 a litre for mine and not ask me for money. It's a very little thing but it spoke to me. It was considerate. I appreciated it.
Anyway tonight he called me and I missed the call and called him back and as soon as I heard his voice I regretted it. Today was his pay-day and he had called to tell me that he had deposited his second repayment of the money he borrowed from me years ago into my bank account. Yes, he's for real paying me back and making it a priority and not being a jerk about it. He's already paid me $200 and he hasn't tried to ask for it back half way through the fortnight or even made a big deal about it. So that's nice.
But he has already told me exactly how his budget works, when he gets paid each fortnight he pays his brother for rent and bills, then he pays me and then he buys himself food for 2 weeks, and one packet of cigarettes and 2 bottles of wine and he smokes and gets his drunk on for one night each fortnight. He's been doing this for months (previously he was paying back a debt to his brother and now he is paying me). I guess the rest of the time he is white-knuckling it. Or maybe he's enjoying the changes in his lifestyle and for the moment he's hanging on to his "one night a fortnight" as a way to get through it. It isn't really my business. What matters to me is that things seem to be working for him and it really is nice to see him positive, proactive and really just generally seeming happy. I am also impressed that he is paying me money and going without money for 13 days of the fortnight. I would never have imagined him prioritising repaying me. I had let go of the debt and forgotten it anyway so it's an unexpected bonus\ and I'm a little bit freaked out that he is making it top priority to pay me back now and seemingly with no agenda.
So tonight was his drunk night and I balked at the sound of his drunk voice and I kicked myself for not remembering that this was "drunk Wednesday".
He droned. On and on. He was full of plans. The primary thing he wanted to discuss was, he had called his former best friend and his mum and his older brother and blah blah blah and he had decided we were all going to do Christmas this year, together. He kept saying "you and I love each other and I know it's good that we are living apart and working on our own stuff now but we need to do Christmas together as a family this year because people need to know that we still love each other".
Then he moved on to how he has decided he is going to visit me every 3rd weekend. The reason being, he figures my daughter goes to her fathers every 2 weeks and this way we can spend one weekend every 6 weeks together alone, and one weekend "as a family". He's doing diatribes here so I really don't have much of a chance to interject. Then he says "(insert Mel's daughter's name here) needs to be aware that I am still a part of her life". Oh no, she doesn't need to be aware of that because he isn't but he has just told me earlier in the conversation that he called the mother of one of his children earlier tonight and tried to set up contact with his daughter. So I know that woman, his ex, and I know she will ride into the icecaps of a frozen hell on a flying pig before she lets him be a part of her child's life. So I feel a little bad because one of the things I loved about this guy was the fact that he likes and cares about children, he can't get it right because he's always been such a deranged drunken mess but there is an aspect to him, a certain part of him that really does love and want to nurture kids in a not-weird way.. What I mean is, I have never sensed malice or abusiveness towards children from him, when we were together I knew he really loved and cared for my daughter and wanted to be a good step-dad and at times he really went above and beyond for her but unfortunately it just wasn't something he could maintain and mostly he was just awful and frightening and weird. I won't expose her to him again. What I'm trying to say is, there is a good father inside that guy and it's really sad that alcoholism has robbed him of it. I wish it could have been different. But my child has endured enough of his crap and she can't stand him. Years ago she made him a pendant with his initials and he still has it glued to the side of his computer screen. It hurts to know who he was trying so hard to be, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The kid hates him and that ship has sailed.
So I am extremely uncomfortable and also mindful of not being completely bitchy because he isn't being in any way unkind or rude, and he has, on the whole, been pretty consistently excellent lately. So what I end up saying, re Christmas and his "6 weekly plan" is hmm maybe" and then trying to change the topic. History has taught me that these plans are nonsense and he gets kind of manic when he drinks after a period of sobriety. It's always abut trying to lock people into "plans" which he then forgets or regrets the next day. But he isn't buying it, he wants me to agree so I settle on "OK, maybe that could work, we'll see".
But what I wonder is, what do people think about agreeing to plans with a drunk person?You and I know that he won't remember or feel the same way the next day but at the time, how do you respond with integrity when someone is drunk, happy and demanding that you agree with their nonsense fantasies?
For example there is no way in hell I am going to tell my daughter "A is a part of your life and you have to spend a weekend with him every 6 weeks". But I also do not want to argue with him, and when he is drunk there is no point stating hard truths. Who knows how he will react. He could end up on our doorstep drunk and belligerant a few hours later.
How do you respond to demands from a drunk person? Am I compromising my integrity or being unkind to agree and hope he forgets? Is it wrong to agree to stuff I absolutely don't agree to? I am agreeing with him because I have spent a great number of years with him and I sort of know what he means and what he doesn't. I also know what he will remember. I guess what I am saying is that I have a great deal of knowledge about him, so I know what he means when he says X, Y and Z. Is it wrong to use that knowledge?
-- Edited by missmeliss on Wednesday 10th of June 2015 02:39:44 PM
__________________
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
There is nothing wrong with ending a conversation by stating, you've been drinking and I prefer only speaking to you when you are sober. Goodbye.
__________________
I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
Interesting question, Ms. M. I am inclined to listen with an open mind to the insanity, understand the plans very rarely come to fruition and say:" these days. I am trying to live in the moment and not make too many plans too far into the future so that it is it's a wee bit early to plan for that event. "
I do hope we can make some arrangements. It's honest and courteous and makes no promises
I am not one to stay on the phone too long with an impaired person, just as a matter of personal preference - no matter who...including my own mother who loves her wine in the evening.
So, I politely disengage as quickly as possible in any way possible and figure if the conversation is remembered, they will call at a later date to firm it up. Anyone who knows me is aware that I am more of a planner than a spontaneous soul, so there should/would be another opportunity to discuss 'a plan' if need be.
I've gotten better with my boundaries and have carefully and lovingly explained that I prefer to talk to my loved ones when they are NOT under the influence. They've all heard me now, as most of my conversations with these folks happen between 7am - 3pm.
I don't judge them and their choices, just ask that they not judge mine!!
So - for me, it goes back to taking care of me, saying what I mean and meaning what I say nicely and adequate boundaries!
Good luck girl - glad you got through it and are discussing it.
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Missmeliss, I have been for the past year, saying to AH, when he is obviously drinking and very argumentative, that I will not talk with him under the circumstances and find a quite spot away from him.
__________________
"Forgiveness doesn't excuse bad behavior, but it
does prevent bad behavior from destroying your heart". ~ unknown
I tend to agree with the consensus. You've got the luxury of this all taking place over the phone. You don't have to do the same dance that you have to do when the A lives with you. And for me, even if it were a sober person, I find it hard to make plans that far out myself, so I think hotrod's got it right again too.
More to the point, it sounds like he was drunk and horny and thinking that he wouldn't be able to make this a booty call tonight, so he'd sneakily try to build in a scheduled one.
If my A could make any kind of plan at all and stick to it, I'd be in a far better place.
"Well, that's something to think about" is a good non-committal phrase. You can say it and be thinking "Yeah, and so is my laundry" at the same time!
