Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

met someone, another alcoholic!!!!!

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh I can believe it! I have found myself attracted to plenty of the same "type"; we don't just get addicted to them for their bad qualities, there are also attractive traits too especially in early relationships!
Hugs to you anyway, your heart must hurt a bit over this.
But you knew it wasn't right for you and took steps to protect your serenity and that's pretty awesome, yay you!!

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

(((LC))) I agree alcoholics are funny, exciting and unpredictable Glad you saw heard the" message "and took the actions to protect yourself. Good job Your tools are working !!!

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

When I started dating again, I safe guarded by being clear...no alcoholics or heavy drinkers...period. I supposed it helped that I was totally sober then. I have had sex with drunk people and such (prior to meeting current spouse) but those were all 1 nighters basically. For a relationship, if it centers around drinking, places that serve alcohol, sex...not a good start. A good person to date has diverse interests, hobbies, a social support network of their own...

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Congratulations on your program at work....I am sorry for the disappointment but applaud you for the boundaries you've put in place to love and protect yourself.

I am very grateful that I am not back in the dating world currently. I am still with my AH and while it is not an optimal relationship, it is at least predictable.

I have decided my picker is broken and before I even consider myself ready to try again, I've got a ton of work to do on me.

Thanks for sharing your experience - even if it's not the desired outcome.

Work in progress - right?

(((Hugs)))

mjferg · Senior Member

I haven't started dating yet,I always wonder when I will know it's the right time or is there a right time.I am afraid of dating right now,it's too soon for me.I still think about my ex a good bit and I know I have to be completely over him first.I think about men my age and I try to picture myself with a man who is responsible, and well opposite, of what I have had and I just can't imagine it yet.

SpookyMulder · Veteran Member

el-cee, I saw your post on my co-morbidity thread and I agree that pinkchip summarized it all there very, very well. What you just did is the same thing I want to be sure I can do. To avoid repeating those mistakes I know I need to look in the face the reasons I am attracting certain people (or being attracted only to them). I think the fact you were able to cut the cord after three weeks is in fact remarkable -- I would think it would be much harder than doing it sooner, actually, so you really pulled through for yourself.

Mary, I decided to put an ad out, specifically because I am not interested in a romance right now. I wanted to do something I had never done: set out to meet new people with similar interests without any pressure for there to be "something" other than what it was. Went out with a really nice woman for dinner yesterday (who was gay, BTW) -- she has a lot in common with me and I was interested in meeting her because of the community service work she does. To be honest, it was not a comfortable feeling, but I did it. And more importantly for me, she started talking about how her "dad smokes pot a lot but isn't an addict" and a few other things and my mind immediately put up a boundary. So that's progress. I told her at the end of dinner I would love to stay in touch if her community groups ever need help, etc. It seems like "setting out to date" won't ever work for me, but I do hope by making myself meet new people involved in things that are important to me I may eventually find someone in the future, if that is meant to be. One day at a time....who knows what is in store.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

El-Cee your post brings up so many memories from the past recovery journey those I had using just my own instincts and those I had using the power of our program. One of the things that kept in line with my recovery was "To Thine own self be true" which encouraged me thru the use of fear that I could not and would not allow myself to repeat that past mistake called alcoholism. Knowing the disease if fatal I could not attempt it not with another alcoholic or ex-spouse of an alcoholic. I also held on to the philosophy that "if nothing changes...nothing changes" and I was so done with our disease. I listened to relapsers tell their "new or most recent" stories and learned that we are as much the "risk taker" in alcoholism as the alcoholic is and I was done with that risk taking behavior though I continue to have the compulsion for it. If the fire is on the burner is not. I am not needy anymore to risk my peace of mind and serenity for another chance at getting lucky...As I have been taught to think before making choices I haven't had to blame luck for what happens with me. The Higher Power, steps, traditions, slogans, literature, fellowship and more keep be back from trusting luck. I am responsible. I have no more room for another alcoholic in my life today especially one who attends AA and drinks on top of it. What would your sponsees learn from this? is one question I would have to ask myself and another would be Does my program actually work and is this it? I found out that there was a difference between "my" program and "the" program. Today I live "the" program. (((((hugs))))) smile

tiredtonite · Veteran Member

Next! TT

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks everyone. I needed this tonight. We had made plans for tonight before he told me and im sitting alone so so tempted to go and see him with a whole to hell with it attitude. My mind is also saying, well, theres a lot worse than alcoholism and at least i know what to expect. Wow, just when you think youve got it sorted and straightened out eh? W does he need to be an alcoholic. He could have been so many other things . lol i live on the west coast of scotland, i dont know if i will find a non alcoholic. Lol. Tt, i love that. Next.x

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

I couldn't help thinking about this for ages after reading it el-cee, thinking through how I would be in the same scenario.
I think, what I would do is tell myself it's fine and I can handle it because I see myself as a bit of an island at the moment, so I could just have fun, keep it casual and not be invested in it, so I couldn't get hurt. What's the harm in seeing someone unpredictable (and unreliable) and fun if I am not going to let myself care too much? And then not see what was happening and end up in all kinds of hurt saying "I didn't see it coming, how did that happen?"

I think you're really walking the walk here and good on you. It's inspiring.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks mel. I dont feel very inspirational right now. I feel like a drinker tempted by a big bottle and thinkjng of lots of reasons why its a good idea. when i really think about my motives right now and why i feel like i do. I can see that its been a while since anyone looked at me that way, wanting me or spoke to me the way he did. Im 44 and ive got fear. Im scared my looks are going fast and i wont be attractive for much longer and i want sex back in my life but time is slipping away. Im desperate to live fully but its turned into a fear if you know what i mean. I want it now, today. its back to the fear and immaturity i think. Im like a spoilt child. Another thing, since i seem to be just going for it here, is sex with someone whose been drinkjng is easier. Im less self conscious. its familiar too.

I know i have done the right thing by endi g it before it really begun but im so agitated right now. Im back at step 1, im powerless and my life has become unmanageable. Im going to phone my sponsor tomorrow. I feel as if i want an alanoner to say, go for it, you know how to do it this time.lolx

SpookyMulder · Veteran Member

Wow. I'm 51 and feel exactly the fear you are describing. People don't see me as "51" -- whatever that means -- in reality it's just a number. Think about Ellen DeGeneres, right? That is one of the things I remind myself about when I start to fear time is slipping away. My ex was significantly younger (although people thought we were lots closer, because she looked older and I looked younger) and when I learned of the affair I immediately thought "I have been left for someone younger and prettier." That wasn't the case. That fear is just pummeled into women from the time they are small and we go through life feeling like we have an expiration date. That seems like the kind of BS that plays right into co-dependence and enabling. Right?

BTW, I love Scotland. I camped on Skye and watched otters playing in the surf. Beautiful. I can understand your wondering if there are any non-alcoholics there, though. LOL I know there are. And you deserve one. ((())))

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

OK, I'll play Devil's advocate.
I think you should go for it el-cee, you know how to handle it this time...

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

Seriously though, you don't owe it to anyone or any program to make one decision or another, you just owe it to you to do what feels right and caring for yourself.

And there's no way you are losing your looks, good grief you posted a picture of yourself and your daughter a while ago and I actually couldn't figure out which was which. I'm not trying to be cute, I actually couldn't decide and asked my daughter to look and she wasn't sure either; both ladies looked like they were very young.

I do think if you weren't so hard on yourself it might not matter that this guy is very "into you". You aren't immature, or like a spoilt child. You're a mature, grounded, funny, intelligent and gorgeous woman. You deserve to be happy and have good experiences and I know you have the skills and the judgement to make that happen

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks for saying that Mel. That has cheered me up. Goodnight mip friends,so glad your in my life.x

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

The disease provides so many reasons to go back to it. "You'll never find a chance this good again" (actually, you can find someone as good and reliable and healthy as a sober alcoholic on practically any street corner), "The sex is easier when there's drinking" (until you can't have sex because he's been peeing in the bed and puking on your floor and then doesn't come home all night anyway), "I'll never attract anyone" (we never attract anyone when we're busy being focused on trying to make an unavailable man love us), "The bird in the hand..." (but being with an alcoholic is like being with no one, only a no one who leeches off us and makes us feel terrible about ourselves).

All my experience has convinced me that there is one most crucial difference between those who end up with good healthy partners and those who end up with disastrous chaotic alcoholic partners. The one difference is this: the healthy people turn down the disastrous chaotic alcoholic partners. That's it. That's all you need to do.

Take good care of yourself.

almostThere · Senior Member

Way to be strong el. I'm going to put this down as one to keep in mind later down the road. I've always been a bad boy and have attracted/been attracted to bad girls. I have no idea what dating might be like for me in the future, but it will have to be something completely different. I must admit, trying to imagine a healthy person that has the "edge" that has always attracted me is difficult. Maybe someone who's been in recovery a looooong time? Sounds odd to aspire to but I can't imagine being attracted to someone who never had a wild streak. I have an acerbic wit and dark humor and I feel like I need someone that's a little jaded. Maybe after a few years in the program I won't feel that way.

Saucy · Veteran Member

I am drawn to bad boys, myself. Not all of them are necessarily substance abusers. Some of them are just a***es. In fact, if they are not an a*****e, I am not interested.

Haha. But Yay for me, there is an AlAnon meeting in one hour. I better go down there and try to figure this out, or at least sit with some other people who can laugh with me about it.

-- Edited by hotrod on Saturday 6th of June 2015 11:43:20 PM

almostThere · Senior Member

HA! Good thing you're a full continent away Saucy because I was working on step 4 earlier and yep! I qualify!

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

Lol, my friend and I used to say I had a checklist.
Does he own a motorbike?
Check.
Does he have tattooes?
Check.
Does he abuse drugs and alcohol?
Check.
Has he been in jail?
Check.
OK, he fits with your MO, go for it...

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

And for me:

Will he make you miserable desperately trying to get his attention and love?

Check!

Then the next umpteen years of my life would be spent alternately trying to win him over and to get the courage to leave him ...

LinSC · Senior Member

You said "no" to the disease, you're worth more than going down that path again. linsc

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you again. Ive woke up this morning and the compulsion is gone. This program is amazing. Last night i had typed him out a text ready to send, then i come here, share with you guys email my higher power and the next thing is its gone, the desire to get back on that merrygoround, wow, no way.I spent 20 years goj g round and round. Lol.

Also, to fit back into the role of enabler, because thats what i would be, would strip me of my self esteem and i would feel guilty. it would be a disaster so no, on to the next one.

So ive got another date today.lol. ive been chatting with thjs guy for weeks now and last night i asked him out after i asked him, do you have any addictions? He said no and hes so normal, hes older than me, 52, but sounds grounded and healthy. I thought it best to get straight back on the horse.so to speak.lol. thanks again for your support, it pulled me through a strange night. Thanks.x

-- Edited by el-cee on Sunday 7th of June 2015 01:39:01 AM

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Another thought ive had is, this experience has been interesting for me to see that the disease is only in remission one day at a time and im blessed to even have that. The pull and power of the disease that ive felt the last couple of days makes me more respectful of it. I dont want to take my recovery for granted or to think ive got it sorted. I am a risk taker and most likely always will be so the 'exciting people' are always gojng to be attractive to me. Weirdly, my ex who has been sober for over 2 years is the last person on earth i would be with. Maybe in my mind he is the alcoholic i cant have, now i need to widen that to all alcoholics are out of bounds for me. I get sick.x

SpookyMulder · Veteran Member

el-cee, I can sure relate to your feelings of compulsion on this. Although it is a different situation, I have been feeling so much like my ex is a drug. Two times now I have had occasion to actually need to mail something to her and both times wrote letters to put in with the necessary item, sealing the envelope, going back, unsealing it, re-writing the letter -- both times I did this I went back and opened the envelope to put a slightly different version of the letter inside. I realized I was trying to figure out a way to say just the right thing to get her to connect with me, but the other really clear thing I felt (which is the "same as you" part) is that I had to fight the compulsion to contact her with all my might. Both times I ended up having the strength to throw away both letters and just send the necessary document. I can easily see it happening again, though.

Another interesting thing has been brought up that I relate to, but I am thinking (today, that might change as I get healthier and see my motives better) that it would be nearly impossible for me to click with someone healthy because they wouldn't understand what my life has been like (childhood, etc.) But then, I know there are people out there who are healthy who have gone through God-awful things, so I may be just making excuses.

Debb · ~*Service Worker*~

I can understand how you would be attracted to this individual el-cee and I am giving you a huge pat on the back for seeing it and dealing with it. Everyday is such a learning experience!!!

tiredtonite · Veteran Member

Are you obsessing about this guy thinking about him day and night almost salivating until you see him again? We use to kid about this sort of thing in chat at MIP.

We called it a chili pepper attraction - the heat creates pain, burn, but you tell yourself you can meet the challenge and try more. Hot peppers can get a person really sick.

But how else can we learn our boundaries unless we risk to have experiences? It great that you're not afraid to have experiences and decide what's best for you.

Lots of peppers out there!

A sweet red pepper can be spiced up a day at a time el cee biggrin

hugs! TT

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Was a bit but not anymore.Lol. went on a date today and met a really calm, hard working man that has a full life of his own. Imagine that!!!! Lol. We're going on a second date next week. love the chilli metaphor, well put.x

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

El-Cee -

Congrats. on today's date!!! How super freakin cool is that?

Of course, with a chuck I am going to add that my brain would probably (at first glance) see the calm, hard working man with a full life as unexciting and boring!!! I'd have to stop and pray to realize 'normal' when I see it.....

Oh - this program is amazing!!!

Enjoy these moments and can't wait for the next installment of 'As the Dating World Turns'.....

Take care!

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Yeah, Im with you. A really nice man who knows how to treat a lady,who knew these folks existed? Its all so normal and feels a bit boring. It seems I like danger, still attracted to crazy. However, I like what TT shared, a nice sweet chilli can be spiced up but how the hell do you cool a red hot chilli pepper? Ive never been able to and I tried for 20 years. So, Im going with calm, safe, normal man for the time being and I will see how it goes. Il keep you updated.x

Mirandac · ~*Service Worker*~

Love the shares

((((((( elcee))))))

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Good work LC The program works when we work it. I do not want to sound like a stick in the mud but when i re- entered the dating game, I was so afraid of STDS that I announced that the date would include going for coffee, a movie or dinner- nothing else. The man I am with now agreed . We saw each other under these conditions for a year before we moved on to SEX. It worked well

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks Hotrod, I am responsible but I feel like Ive been without intimacy for years. Your probably right.

-- Edited by el-cee on Sunday 7th of June 2015 04:37:00 PM

SpookyMulder · Veteran Member

Nice, Hotrod! I would love to see "old-fashioned courting" make a comeback! Things can move way too fast in this day and age. And I'm not sure if this is sexist -- I don't mean it to be -- but I have known very, very few women who could take intimacy lightly. Something in our brain chemistry just changes afterward! LOL Good to go slow and know someone a while -- you can't hide crazy/drunk for long.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

I agree also with slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww and steady winning the race. Of course, I don't think about these things that often as I'm still married to my AH.

tiredtonite · Veteran Member

The man I am with and I took it slower too. We both had the benefit of 12 step recovery so that was a plus. He was newly recovering in AA and they usually recommend that newcomers don't get involved in a relationship for awhile.

It takes time to know a person. I don't think it's difficult to have sex with someone. It's a lot more difficult to allow yourself the emotional vulnerability it takes to make an emotional connection with another person. We were both interested an emotional connection with one another. We both had the benefit of experiencing good marriages for many years where our spouses were our best friends. Like my exah, my recovering abf's disease progressed rapidly only in the last few years of his marriage. Before that he'd been highly functional and available for the most part.

We spoke openly about having loved our spouses and having been loved by them. We both had moved on from the past but the open discussion helped us over time to recognize possibilities in one another. We were willing to let things evolve naturally from a romantic friendship to more. I was ten years in Alanon and he was three months in AA when we met. It wasn't his first time in AA but he didn't recite from the big book or boast that it was going to be his last time relapsing.

The first time we met one another we ended up in a department store. I needed to use the restroom. When I returned, his back was to me and he was looking into a glass case filled with dishes. I asked him if he was shopping for china for us already. He got the joke about program people and instant relationships. We both laughed so hard. He still tells people that story.

We're together five years. The chemistry is there. It's been there from the start but I think time and experience made the difference for us going forward with one another. We'd both agreed - no pressure. I've had those instant relationships and obviously they didn't work out. As much as I told myself I was up for them, when the rejection came my ego was badly bruised and my heart hurt. I don't know maybe because I've been good with who I am for some time now and enjoying my life before bf came into the picture, I wasn't really looking for anything from him except a chance to know another person. I guess we're going to be together for as long as hp wants us to. TT

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

Interesting topic because I have been dating the same man, El Cee, for 8 weeks now and I keep looking for the excitement, the drama, the crazy sex, the intensity that I had with the alcoholic. And, then I wonder why it feels so bland to me. We just got back from a 3 day trip to San Francisco visiting with his friends who are quite wealthy. I went sailing in San Fran Bay, got to ride in a convertible Aston Martin all weekend long, etc and yet, I kept feeling that I needed something more, more excitement, LOL. What I realized was this: I am dating a NORMAL man who has a normal sex drive, who is not needy or self seeking or narcissistic or an alcoholic or crazy or abusive or has a low self image.

Dating has shown me just how dysfunctional my life before this man really was. I crave the crazy and the drama and he gives me none of that. I am learning to be content with who I am and with how we are. We get along splendidly, we had a beautiful weekend together, and we enjoyed all of it with each other. No fights, no arguments, nobody's feelings got hurt, and no one took anything too personally. Hmmm, what a revelation for me, LOL.

I think that, like TT mentioned above, taking things slow and letting a relationship unfold as it needs to be is important. This man and I have taken things slowly. We don't push the 'relationship' status on each other and we just enjoy the day and what it is as it is. No pressure. We have chemistry, but it's just different than being with an alcoholic and it's hard for me to get used to a NEW type of healthy relating. TT mentioned the 'just a chance to know another person' and that was how I came into my relationship where I am today. One day a time, getting to know someone, getting excited about our next time together, and letting go of fear and expectations. It's truly been a learning experience for me. I'm enjoying the ride, quite frankly, and I love where I am at today with program and with my growth and my new man.

Hugs to you, El Cee, and good for you for getting back out there dating. I know it's a tough step to take and it takes some commitment and self awareness to be ready for it!

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

One of the greatest lessons I received in Al-Anon was about self love...loving myself as I would wish others would love me and when that lesson was learned my demands on intimacy from others tempered way down and at the same time my HP faced me with a lesson that came unexpectedly from a conversation with a mutual friend of my alcoholic/addict and myself. My friend told me about a broken relationship a coworker was having and that the coworker's husband was calling her at work wanting to come back home. She told me she over hear the coworker tell her husband, "I love you" ...."I like having your here" ..."and I don't need you". That so confused me and ran so very opposite of my own perception that I got angry at it and left her house in a huff. I got about 4 blocks from her house and couldn't drive any more because the idea of loving without needing stopped my thinking. I sat at the shoulder of the street with the engine off and processed what I had heard without resistance and then it came to me. Needing my partner and loving my partner are very separate behaviors. I may feel the "need" for sex and if she isn't in the same mood what might I do. If I love her I accept and let go and keep the relationship intact. Sex unplanned for me has almost always be very nice. The spontaneity of it brings us both together with the same intention...loving her and myself at the same time. Thanks for letting me share. ((((hugs)))) smile

-- Edited by Jerry F on Monday 8th of June 2015 11:57:20 AM

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

I found a great man whom is not an A, I did kiss a couple frogs before finding him, but the wait was well worth it! He is exciting and has the bad boy vibe, but is a strong, funny, sassy, active man, he is a great dad to his girls and a great example to my girls. He is strong and says it like it is, but can be gentle and loving too. He is a great communicator and knows how to treat a woman and after over a year together I feel so stable and loved like never before. Everything is great with this man and trust me I screened him for all the old traits I was attracting. After a few years in al-anon I am finally at that point of not settling for less than I deserve and met my match. He is hard working, family oriented, hilarious, tough when he needs to be and gentle when he needs to be. I thank al-anon for helping me stick to my guns on not accepting the old unacceptable behaviors and I got just what I always dreamed of.
So next sounds right to me! You deserve the best and sometimes patience is what is about and that isn't always easy and I gave in too for a time, until I got tired of the head and heart fighting and the red flags couldn't be ignored any longer. Sending you love and support on your journey!

-- Edited by Breakingfree on Monday 8th of June 2015 07:11:27 PM

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene