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Okay so here it goes ... I think I am finally ready to share the voice in my head and it feels like my last internal struggle with my ex-A. I am sharing this hoping to get some feedback so I can move through this because I don't know what is mine and what was his. I still feel emotionally enmeshed on this and would like to finally unravel it. Please, I just need some positive encouragement and support to move through this. I don't need you are "judging" AA. This has been my fear the whole time so I have kept it in. Wow I just asked for what I needed!!!!
I know I was struggling to protect myself. Every time I struggled to protect myself...I would hear his voice in my head saying "you are just jealous" .... I was very afraid then that if I protected myself that I would get viewed as jealous, bitter, etc. My next thought would be that if I protected myself that his AA group would "help" him to character assassinate me. This fear was not really unfounded as they did that in court. I did not get external affidavits until he did that and I got them to protect myself.
Anyway ... This is my struggle was I really jealous? Or was this projection? Was it mine or his? I still feel strange that I don't know this. What was my part? What was his?
I also have to add that those affidavits when I think of them still hurt because they were saying what a model recovery person he was while he was having an affair and posting pictures of himself "high".
I'm sure someone else will have better answers because i'm just starting. My first thought is that everything you mentioned is in the past. It's all cloudy, confused and obfuscated and separating truth from fiction sounds impossible. Start fresh. How do you think about, feel about and treat others and yourself starting today. That's you. Follow the principles, evaluate daily, and I bet soon you'll like what that voice has to say. And you'll like you. That confidence will allow you to ignore what others say about your character.
I get that I felt jealous... I don't think you can avoid that feeling when you think you are in a monogamous relationship and find out you are not. However, I am not sure why I kept getting the implicit message that because I felt jealous that I no longer had a right to safety.
I understand that a lot of people feel resentment when the addict goes and get helps. I felt relieved and happy. Today it feels like he was using that as an excuse to justify his affair and because these people did not know me or what was going on in our home they assumed we were fighting about his attending AA. Then I got this huge backlash.
I think I might have just got to the lesson of "keep the focus on yourself" .... I am thinking now that they were focusing on me (your resentful because he is getting help) and me on them (confused as to why anyone would be resentful of that) Neither of which is the program.
One thing is for sure - you didn't take him by the hand and lead him to his affair. What part of his affair was yours? NONE. It was his choice. He took every action.
You are/were jealous? ok. Who wouldn't be? Hurt is probably more appropriate. Try to make "x" "X". Over. Done with. Easier said than done, and I hope someone here can point you to some tools to help. Sending hope and love.
Resentment is just one big ball. Breaking it down doesn't help me change it. It's a noun. The result of a verb "I resent". Only you can stop resenting. I'm telling myself this as much as you.
I think my hurt from the other members of AA was I guess I had an expectation that they "might" see through that. However, they did not. Their affidavits basically implied that I was jealous of his recovery (made no sense to me because that was not a threat). If he was emotionally healthy, I assumed the bond would get better.
Well I am finally talking it out and I might actually get to the actual resentment not the projected resentment. I think I might have just got there. I had an expectation that someone with 20+ years in recovery would "see" the manipulation and not blame me. However, that is not how it went down. I might have just got acceptance.
For me, I think it was our illness that bonded us. If we both get healthy I doubt we'd be left with much in common. That's the ugly truth of my situation.
Emotional health is a long journey and requires constant maintenance. I'm at the same time encouraged and discouraged by the number of people who have been working the program longer than I have that are still struggling.
The people from AA who spoke up for him, only heard one side of the story.
They are there for one another to support one another. So that is what they did. They listened to one side of the story and supported the person that relayed the story.
I understand how hurtful it is for people to be against me, that do not even know me. I met my AH's ex wife one time, and she absolutely hates my guts. I was hurt because I did not understand why. She hated me before she met me, and we have only exchanged 10 words with one another. (I like my ex-husband's new wife, and I hoped things could be the same).
So, I wanted to figure it out, and understand why. Because I wanted to change it. It was important for me to be liked.
I am a double-winner, so I will share what I can to see if it helps.
First, one thing I always remind folks who have an issue/judgement/concern/resentment over AA, AA people, etc. - we are in the rooms because we are sick. The 12 Step Programs are NOT the place to find mentally healthy people.
So, if I understand your post, it sounds as if your AH had members who were willing to support him and say that he was 'all that and a slice of bread'....As both sides of this program are based on honesty, my gut tells me that he might have been a model meeting attendee and even a model member. Keep in mind, their views/observations would be on meeting attendance & other events - so very, very limited. My summary for this - perhaps they were giving an honest perception based on their exposure. Only God, he and they know if he discussed you, what he said about you and how it was magnified, embellished, etc. You may never, ever know this and to me - you can't 'own' this at all. They did what they did, he did what he did and the courts/judge made a decision. Your only part if it is all over is to accept the judge's ruling and have a great life (recover, find peace & serenity). If it's still in process, then your part is to honestly protect yourself in a manner you can accept and live with...it would stink to get 3/4 way down the processing road and discover your resentment is at 'you'.....I've been there and done that - not for this type of thing but for other things...
As far as self-protection vs. jealous vs. mine - ask yourself (or your sponsor) these questions, removing the players....I.E.
1. If anyone else was making these claims, would I have done the same thing?
2. Was my motive purely about the current events or rooted in past events?
3. Was my reaction/action reasonable and necessary?
4. Do I feel as if I owe an amends?
5. Do I feel as if I am owed an amends?
6. Based on what I know now, would I have done things differently?
Your answers might help you determine what is yours and what is not yours.
I tend to project my values on life events and then wonder what's wrong with this picture...For instance, my AH had affairs with his first wife. I came into this marriage knowing that and believing that it wouldn't happen to me. We met/married in the program - I stayed sober, ha did/has not. I would NEVER have an affair, as I was raised to believe this is a huge sin and not appropriate at all - no matter what. I can almost guarantee that he was raised the same way, yet adopted a different value set along his lifetime.
Changes are good that he's been unfaithful. I won't ask as I am certain the answer would be told to me based on what he thinks I want to hear. The easier answer - he would lie unless he were caught red-handed. So, I don't ask. Because I've never asked, I've never had to deal with the reality, the disappointment, the emotions, the rejections, the rage - all that is non-constructive and certainly far from serene. This disease broke our marriage well before the sinning began. I made many mistakes, and try to own them as I see/realize them. But, I did not make him drink, I did not make him stray and I did not judge his actions nor facilitate a 'fix' or a 'punishment'.
So - if possible, take the various issues (you only mention affairs, there may be other elements that need to be looked at) and chunk them down using the questions and assessing what you did do, what you did not do and that may help you find your part - if any.
When others hurt us, we have every right to our emotions. They are real and they are raw often. It's our thinking that gets us in trouble. You have a right to be hurt, angry, disappointed, feel rejected, etc. You don't have a right to slash tires because his actions made you hurt, angry, etc. My suggestion here is try to separate the emotion from the thinking, as this can also help determine what is yours and what is not.
I don't know if this helps you or not. For me, in either of the two programs, when I have unfinished business, I just keep breaking it down in the hopes of making it more manageable. I've tried to leave items that were past in the past and not process and it has caused me repeat offenses. This is always done best with a trusted sponsor as they can see things that we can't always see - blocked by either the emotion or the thoughts.
I will say that I am a firm believer in nothing happens by accident, and also that even with our defects, most of us tend to do the best we can with what we have at the time. I have forgiven often just because that's the final answer and I suspect the 'offender' was driven by the disease...
While it would be nice to be 100% mentally healthy all the time, that's just not my reality. My goal is happy, healthy and whole - as defined by me and no other.
Make it a great day!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I just want to be clear. This is not about me being liked. I am trying to figure out "my emotions" versus projected emotions. I was fearful to share this because when I do it triggers a lot of judgement. I was so emotionally entangled at the end that I could not figure out what was mine and what was projected. I think this is my last step to separate myself from him and become interdependent again.
Thank you those questions are helpful. I actually think my resentment might be with me because I chose not to protect myself and let my emotional boundaries down.
Truth - I am glad they can help a bit with processing. I recently completed a 12 Step study with a group of women - we took a look at each step every week/two. We spent a ton of time discussing how to look at situations that 'linger' - whether in the form of a resentment, sadness, anxiety, etc. These were some of the questions we kept asking to try and get to facts/details that made it easier to 'see'.....I ended up with myself and my HP on my 4th Step very much because of what you said (me) and because I can (HP)!!!
Best of efforts to you with processing this last element and may you come out on the other side FREE!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I got to break this one down and process now because I am emotionally able to do so if I bury it it will come up. I did not ask about the affair. He came and told me. However, when I look back he was getting more abusive and more abusive. I just want to deal with this so I am making the proper decisions to protect my son going forward. The latest is that I am trying to break his bond with his son because I am jealous. I am starting to see that he might now know that I won't protect myself (out of fear) when he says these things. Your first question...just struck a cord because if it was someone else I would not even struggle with the decision. I would just protect myself.
When there are children involved, it does seem to complicate things a bit more...
My experience in dealing with A(s) is no matter what I am saying they often hear what they want to hear. I am a double winner, and it took me YEARS to learn to listen and hear what was being said, not what I thought they said.
It's possible that no matter what your intent is, he's going to assume/accuse it's based on jealousy. At this point, I would seek counsel from a sponsor or even a professional. Not so much for you or even for him to hear you but for your child. At the end of the day, you want your child to be in a happy, healthy environment. This applies to both homes and other places he visits. If there is any risk to that, it's time to seek a professional.
I've never been through this, but have watched folks in recovery be able to successfully co-parent even when they had difficulty being in the same room. It's because they put the child(ren) first.
I don't know if I am helping or not - just kind of thinking outloud Truth....
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I have sought professional help. I went to domestic shelter for myself so that the physical abuse stopped at the exchanges. I have now stopped communicating directly with him. I have other people do that for me so I can keep my emotional boundaries intact and not feel enmeshed.
My son has started to tell me things and if it was any other person ... I would not let him go see them. However, we have this court order.
I have spoken to the DV professional and I have to wait until my son is five until he can go to the support groups there. That is in December.
There is no way him and I could be together in a room because he gets violent and then denies it happens.
I am so sorry about this. My mind goes back to the questions.....and remove the AXH, but input your son.
If you are like me/most, you will move heaven and earth to protect your child from harm. If what your son is sharing with you raises any concern of harm, and it were anybody else, what would you do? I don't know the exact answer, but I can share that in my home, we've had Child Protective Services involved, my son went into state custody for a while, and we ended up with some in-home family therapy provided by our county....I felt so bad for this poor counselor as we were all very sick at the time!!!
My best suggestion - try to set aside your experience with your XAH and seek to ensure safety for your child. Operate with facts & information and seek support through any/all means available. When my first son was in crisis (did not know it was drug induced), I contacted every resource I could find - professional, legal, state, county, local, city, preachers, etc. I was a bit crazy at the time, but thought he was mentally ill and did not want to leave any stone unturned.
I learned a ton about resources that I didn't even know existed and had to be willing to be humble, open and honest. It didn't work as my son was actually using drugs (that was making him crazy acting...suicidal....homicidal) but it did open the door to discovering his substance dependency. Long, hard road we traveled....
I certainly would never expect you to be alone with him in a room if there has been DV. Again, so sorry for you....perhaps you can ask for supervised visitation so your son is also not alone with him? The DV folks should have some suggestions based on his current age - maybe ask to talk to a supervisor?
Again - just brainstorming outloud.....
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I have been there as well. At this time, I just have to keep a record of it as the court needs evidence. It is getting better every day but like I said I would not send him if it was anyone else.
I was reading somewhere, that when someone withholds information from you it automatically creates a power imbalance. If I ask he will not tell me, where he is taking my son or who he is around.
Truth - I think it creates a 'perceived' power imbalance. If I were in your shoes, and asked pointed questions that were not answered, I would also log that into your documentation.
My best suggestion for you is to document, document, document. Every exchange, every hand-off, every unanswered question, etc. If you do find the need to go to court, a well-written factual log will be very valuable for your case. I had a friend who went through a similar situation, and she would sit down each night, and put on her 'business' hat and document the days events (he was actively drinking and a mess). She stated facts as if she were an observer without any documentation of the 'I think' or 'He seemed'....just as if you were reading a dull, dry court document...
It was the tool that got her full custody and he was held to supervised visitation for a long while. He did end up getting sober and has since become a better person to the boys and to her. If you need to journal for you, keep it for you and your sponsor. Try to keep your log as if you are an observer only...The court wants facts if asked. Of course, I am only offering you some suggestions...
As far as the imbalance of power, I am not one to give up my personal power easily. Before recovery, I used to think knowledge was power. As I've grown in recovery, I've decided that ignorance is truly bliss. I don't ask my As about drinking, meetings, recovery, finances, etc. In my world, they will tell me what they think I want to hear instead of the truth. At this point in our path(s), there is no desire on their part for a healthy 'real' relationship, so me asking conversational or 'family' questions appears to them as 'nosiness'.
As part of my program work with my sponsor, she suggested I stopped asking questions and enjoy what is volunteered. She said this would also help me learn to listen better. It's been a very pleasant experience. And, getting easier. When my sober son told me he wasn't going to meetings any more, I said, well - that's your choice honey. At least if you ever have a burning desire, you know where to go. He literally almost fell off his chair as I am a huge fan of meetings and never miss them. I also in the past would have asked if anything had happened, if he was still sober, if it felt OK......an overboard response/reaction.
Instead of asking my program friends how is it going or are you ok? I've changed it up to....You look great today or If you need to talk, you can call me anytime. I am always making changes that make sense and I seem to grow each time I do!
I'll keep you and your son in my prayers!!! It can't be a pleasant situation, and hopefully will all pass soon. I admire your program and process though and I have faith that you'll get to the other side as long as you keep on keeping on!! ((Hugs))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thank you for your suggestions ... I will keep doing the journal. You are right he does perceive it as "nosiness" .... However the visits are affecting my son. He reverts back to childlike behavior, starts popping in his pants and the last one came home and started getting violent with me. It took him two weeks to get out of this behavior. He finally started to talk about what happened. He said he fell off his dad's motorcycle, and gave me a list of instructions including that he is not to tell me anything. I want to process that last bit in the past so I know that I am making decisions based on the now...so I am satisfied that it is not based on a resentment.
I don't really now why I am judging myself so harshly ....He knows I don't overreact ...I have to laugh because the last time my EX-A relapsed...he came to tell me first. I know exactly why he did because he knew I wouldn't fly off the handle. He would not tell his family, his friends or his sponsor. I almost said the exact same thing you did that it was his choice, however I did set a boundary that if they asked ... I wasn't keeping it a secret.
Truth...Since getting to know you, I know you are not anti-AA. You are a good person. I see you letting your ex rent space in your head that is hurting you. When you hear a voice in your head that is unkind or belongs to him, maybe answer back "Be quiet! That is not true."
Be gentle with you - I think you're energy is focused in the right place - protecting your son. I would be concerned (very much so) if after a visit my child was 'going backwards'. Keep processing and have faith in yourself - you have a valid and legitimate concern IMO!!!
(((Truth))) - love your nickname BTW!!!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
You will do it when alone lol. Seriously, my therapist told me to do that to stop my obsessive thinking. I was to literally say "Enough! Get off my back!" to myself.
I have been labeled so many things by my As that I kind of have this shell around me for protection....I used to try and analyze what was said, does it apply, etc. and while I do still analyze and look for my part, much of what I hear is the disease.
My experience is when my A(s) don't get their way or what they want when they want it, all kinds of 'stuff' is directed at me - as I am the closest one in the way. It can be as simple as my son oversleeping for his job (when he lived here) and blaming me for not waking him up or my AH is mad at me because it's raining and he can't golf.
The insanity becomes more and more obvious to me the longer I work on me and my serenity/peace of mind/clarity of thought.
I am grateful my boys are grown - my world would be much different if I had to manage my expectations like you have to....(((hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
