The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
my ah has been sober for over two years. I moved out and he got sober and started the program. 90 meetings in 90 days... But no sponsor and no steps. Once again we are in marriage counseling and I try to see hope. So I open up about fears and hurts in an effort to resolve and try to help us get closer. Yesterday he finally understood one.... But threw out a dagger on another topic. So I tried today to talk about it gently so to keep from harbouring resentment. He ran over me with words. I think he was even recording me on his iPhone tho he denies it. I just finally said never mind... Got frustrated but tried not to lash out. He called me ignorant and names of some of my relatives who are challenging.
Is is there anyone here who has their so call their behavior ignorant and justify it by saying they aren't calling you ignorant but your behavior? Thinks I shouldn't be offended. We have had this discussion before and I have told him that it is not ok. Still he insists. Says it's my anger issue. Is it just me or does this seem insane?
This appears to be standard A behavior. A's deflect and project. You will be labelled as everything they are. Part of the sickness is when you start reflecting those behaviors and exhibiting those traits. al-anon will help you undo that damage but I'm a newbie so I'm just beginning to learn how to do it. The people in this community will do their best to show you the way through actual empathy and understanding. You are not alone. Good luck to you! Glad you are here!
I've been called everything in the book and also been told I am crazy, angry, selfish, etc. You name it...that's me according to my 3 A(s).
I've learned to detach and remind myself that it's the disease talking, not my loved ones.
I tend to have little/no expectations and take care of me. The more strength I gain in working this program, the more confidence I have. As I become healthier, they tend to avoid me as they prefer me 'sick'.
When a conversation doesn't go well, I figure that's a sign that it's not the right time. I have learned that just because I am ready to talk about a situation, issue, opportunity, etc. that doesn't mean they are ready/prepared. So - I tend to save it for another day...or find an Alanon friend or sponsor to talk with.
Alcoholics, active or not, often process slower as they are searching for the 'right' answer. Sad, but true. I have come to assume that most questions I ask will be answered as they think I want to hear, only to discover later that is not at all what they feel or really think.
Glad you are here and asking questions. Almost anytime my A(s) accuse me of being the problem, I have to talk with my sponsor to assess my part in the situation and work on me if needed!
Make it a great evening!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thank you. Mine talks 10000 mph and interrupts ... And I get frustrated/hurt/angry because I feel my concerns are minimized or dismissed. I have avoided conversations for so long and resentments happen, so I try to start talking through to avoid all of this, ask him to stop when I am feeling ready to blow and still he pushes... Thank goodness we still live in separate homes.
(((Koko))) - hugs to you....I feel your pain. I still live with my AH and have my safe place + my dog to walk. I will do what I need to to vacate a drama-filled event.
Just today, my A son moved out (evicted for violating rules regarding using), so I had two at a time for a long while.
I have come to expect drama over important topics, and have come to handle my disappointments and resentments with my sponsor. My vision/projection of what our home should look like was Norman Rockwell. We're more like the Ozzie Osbourne version of 'crazy'!!
My other A son doesn't live here any more - and at one time, had 3 of them. At times, it seems they like to argue for sport....with each other, pushing buttons, etc.
It does get better if I use the tools here. It's no longer fun for them or even engaging if we don't dance.
Hang in there and enjoy the peace of separation. I keep reminding myself often that it will all be OK so long as I work this program and work to be the best person I can be!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
It is difficult for me to thrive in a relationship in which my feelings are not validated.
My AH does not "name call", but it still hurts when I feel like I am not being heard, or being told I am wrong for feeling angry, hurt, disappointed, or afraid.
I would agree this is usually anyway standard behavior .. finally grew to understand the idea behind the projecting .. Most A's are generally in ''denial .. stands for Don't Even No I Am Lying with alcoholism being a thinking disease; not just drinking .. and also being powerful baffling cunning (manipulative) & confusing .. It took me forever to get this piece .. I used to wonder how he could look himself in the mirror with some of the choices he's made or not made (mine was a closet addict though too; very hidden) .. used to wonder if he had a conscience .. well today I see ''his coping & survival skill was to blame me; call names; or just plain push my buttons so I would react .. through the spiritual piece of the program I learned ''when I React .. I (instead of him) look like the angry controlling confused shameful blaming one while he then turns into the kind laid back reasonable one .. most people judge the surface .. yep on the surface that is exactly how it looked .. he was able to feed his denial then by telling himself "he was the ''good (as in kind & together person) while I was the 'bad (crazy confused and controlling) one .. Sigh ..
today I get that any time I try to begin to 'reason with him .. have a calm deep conversation .. I am the one who goes insane .. I don't get sucked in anymore .. sharing with him isn't gonna lead me to sanity .. or serenity or even clarity; it's going to ''confuse me because I share with his disease .. not him .. so sharing with others in recovery ? meetings alanon sites ? yah there's a much better chance of being led toward serenity & sanity .. clearer thinking and better feeling ..
I was insane before alanon, living with alcoholism makes us insane. So, to answer your question, if you are not attending alanon meetings then the chances are yes your insane. Sorry, kt can come as a shock, i never had a clue how insane i was.
Thanks for sharing, everyone! I think I really needed to read this.
I have been struggling with my wife telling me that I am being passive-aggressive when I express any kind of disagreement with anything she wants. (She wants pizza, I want to eat the CSA food we just picked up. I am being passive-aggressive. She wants me to stop at the gas station so she can buy alcohol. I don't stop. I am being passive-aggressive.)
I got to the point this morning (was in the middle of letting the dogs out, 3 out, 2 to go, when I noticed my wife was awake and had opened the bedroom door that she asked me weeks ago to close whenever I am up and she is still sleeping. I asked her if she wanted me to turn off the radio so she could go back to sleep. She said that, I probably wanted her to go back to sleep so I could have some time away from her.) that I actually looked up the definition of passive-aggressive in the DSM IV. (I know there is a DSM V, but we have IV at home.) And, I felt as though I had been hit over the head. I realized for the first time ever that I am not being passive-aggressive (at least in accordance with the DSM definition or the one in my lovely friend Wikipedia), but my wife certainly is!
Some of my AlAnon friends have warned me to watch out for gaslighting, and I thought I had been generally aware of it, but wow. I am really in shock. A good kind of shock. Now, when my wife tells me that I am being passive-aggressive, I will just translate that to "You are being such a pluming wrench!" and move on with my day.
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Skorpi
If you are depressed, you are living in the past. If you are anxious, you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present. - Lao Tzu
I started getting the passive aggressive and very
Controlling behaviors. The gaslighting and crazy
Making. It all made me feel insane even though i
Knew i was okay and had not changed. You do
Question yourself. What did i do to set him off?
What really helped me with these things was going
To a therapist. First one was a marriage therapist she met
Him seperate from and me. She said get out, you will
Not have more than a marriage of convience with
Him. He would not admit to anything he was doing.
He did not like getting called on his behaviors.
Second one was a drug and alcohol therapist, ah never saw
Her but i did. They validated your reality and set you
Straight about the truths. She too told me to get
Out.
I still stayed and kept trying and beating my Head
against the proverbial brick wall.
The DSM!! Ha! My AW is a PSYCH PROFESSIONAL with years of experience! So she knows the DSM inside and out.
Before I had any idea how incredibly powerful this disease is or had begun to truly understand it, I would point out that she had all the hallmarks of addiction. Every single one!
I don't know how many times I've yelled "and you KNOW this!", only for her to scowl at me in silence or start calling me names. Denial overpowers all.
As time went on, I started seeing that I progressively had more of them too, even though I don't drink!
Never thought I'd be sitting in a meeting when she had the problem. Thank god I am. Just beginning to work on restoring my health and sanity.
I was working as a substance abuse therapist at the height of my alcoholism. I knew the DSM backwards and forwards and still do. It only gave me ammunition to shift focus off myself and it actually hurt me because I thought I should know better than to have the problems I did and I had a giant chip on my shoulder and no humility. Eventually, I basically had to admit that everyone else knew how to live better than I did because they didn't have to drink daily and were not constantly miserable.
Amazing. Thanks for sharing pinkchip. Yes, I've found that as a tactic it only backfired. She knew the DSM and could twist it to convince herself that I was crazy, a determination that she then shared with her family and friends to build her army of enablers. She gets the "poor baby's" and I get the blame for the chaos in our household. Trying to learn how to let go. I'm not even "almostThere" on that one, but I've gassed up the vehicle and am headed in the right direction. Made my first right turn Friday night and numerous tiny corrections since I started to try and keep myself on the road. Al-Anon is the map.
When I was a newly recovering Alanon and before getting into Alanon, I had some of the behaviors you describe. I got defensive when other people offered constructive criticism and dismissed any iota of truth there might be in what they were saying to me. I'm glad I've stuck around and worked a program of recovery because even though some of the truths I learned about myself were unpleasant, coming out of denial and focusing on myself and working on these shortcomings has helped me get rid of some of them and improve on others. In Alanon we say "What other people think of me, is none of my business." In a way, I think it is my business if they are pointing out something about me that I don't like hearing. The Alanon program helped me with my self esteem. My self worth isn't wrapped up in what other people think of me but I have more of an open mind to listen to what they are saying about me and not dismiss it because of who is saying it to me. I can make a decision as to whether I feel there's any validity to what the person has said about me. I can talk to my sponsor about it if I feel a need. Labelling the person who said it as an unreliable source for pointing anything out about me, just gives me an excuse not to work on things in myself that really might need improving. I guess a good comparison would be when I attend an Alanon meeting, I may not like everyone there but it doesn't mean that things that they share can't be helpful to my recovery. Thanks for sharing. (((hugs)) TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
What a great topic and discussion! I have been through this with my ex AW and was ASTOUNDED when she would say things about me that were so clearly more applicable to her. But, while I was in it, I thought, "Well, we are always the last to know about our own defects, maybe I am projecting or in denial about my flaws." So I would think about it, ask trusted friends who would tell me the truth if I had a flaw to work on, and I would pray and meditate for the strength to see and cope with the things I needed to work on. In Al-Anon, I have become aware that I do have issues to work on, and I am working on them. It is tough to face things about yourself that are unpleasant or you don't like. But I am learning the big difference between loving, experienced people telling me to examine myself in a particular area and an alcoholic (active or dry) staabbing me in the heart with whatever they know will do the most damage -- the whole time projecting and gaslighting. Please know you are supported here!!! Hugs!!!!
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Peace comes from within. Do not seek it from without. Buddha
