The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I understand when people make this statement and similar claims of how awesome their partner is followed by...."when he's sober." To me, I almost think this is a thinking trap that leads us to further disappointment. I know from when I was an active alcoholic and when engaged in a long term relationships with one....Yes, I was nicer, kinder, more intelligent, intuitive, logical and all sorts of other things when sober. HOWEVER, that SOBER me was also the one that couldn't stand to be sober, that lied about his drinking, that lived in denial, that was to immature and stubborn to take responsibility for myself and to seek help. It was "sober" me that still had all these issues and problems to work that couldn't function without wanting to drink to oblivion every single day.
So no...I was not so great, wonderful, or anyone's soul mate when I was sober (prior to actually getting sober for real). I was not a bad person and I was not the outward train wreck that I appeared to be when drunk, but I was still so broken and didn't know how to cope. This was often a set up for me to latch on to romantic partners who were more emotionally stable to not just enable me, but help me get through life. I can see the draw for them in some ways because I would pepper them with compliments at first such as "You make me feel alive, wonderful...you are the best thing ever....and I can't live without you." Okay...well I meant those things but they came from a place of MY WEAKNESS. I always attracted people to manage my life and then I would claim I couldn't live without them as if that was endearing. It got old. We would then argue and I would bite that hand that was feeding me.
So no...I was not that great back then...even sober. I was an immature little boy with lots of problems trying to have grown up relationships and taking people for a ride without being aware of it. When I look back on it, I really dislike that person even more than how I acted drunk because it was those immature, stubborn, willful, rationalizing, needy, clingy...traits that I had even when not drinking that were propelling the whole thing. I also had people tell me "You are so great when you are not drinking" and I took that to mean I had no problems or deeper issues except that the other person didn't like my drinking. No...I wasn't great when not drinking. I was really sad and broken. I wasn't able to make a real commitment to a relationship because I didn't even know who I was. I was running from myself and clinging to others to avoid dealing with my issues. The relationships were always tumultuous and drama filled. It wasn't mature, adult love.
This is just my experience and some ideas I have come up with after reading many posts here where people are really in turmoil and thinking their qualifier is only a problem when actually drunk and when they are not drunk, that person is great and their soul mate. The problems and issues we have when we are not drunk (prior to real recovery) are so severe usually that it is often what propels the drinking. I feel horrible that I ever even tried to be a romantic partner to someone when I was that weak, broken, dishonest, and manipulative....AND if anyone thought that version of me was "soul mate" material...Well....not so much.
Dear Mark, thank you for your insight into the alcoholic thinking and motivation drunk or sober. I must add that as I reflect back on my own behavior while choosing a husband, and thereafter, I too had many destructive behaviors that I masked with kindness and manipulation. I appeared to be loving, compassionate, self-sacrificing, etc. when underneath it all, my motives were self-seeking. I thank God for Al-Anon, so that I could uncover this about myself and work diligently to correct my drivers.
Today I can truly say that I am kind, compassionate, understanding, nonjudgmental and generous. I can give without expecting anything in return. The Al-Anon principles above my distorted personality really helped me to grow.
Thank you for your insights pinkchip. I find myself in that thinking trap a lot with my daughter. You are exactly right. the person sober or drunk is still broken and immature and believing that everything is good as long as they are sober does set myself up for disappointment.
Thanks for the insight. It seems that so many of your posts lead me to reflect more on myself and my motives.
I wonder: in selecting a romantic partner, was I really seeking out someone who would need me because I was afraid of being left again? Probably. So, did I really buy into the being needed part of my relationship with my AW because if I was needed, I wouldn't be left? And do I stay because a break-up of any kind can feel the same as my first loss and churn up all of those emotions again? probably. I know I didn't deal with my grief well. I know this because over a decade later, I still feel that empty, hollow pain in the pit of my stomach when I think of my first partner's death. Soooo, maybe that is where I should focus some thought and work.
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Skorpi
If you are depressed, you are living in the past. If you are anxious, you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present. - Lao Tzu
Thanks for being so generous with this share Mark.
My husband and I were together for twenty years before he started drinking and we were a good fit in many ways - not all of them healthy of course, but as you say one getting her kicks (me) from feeling good by helping and feeling needed (sorry dear husband, I knew not what I was doing) the other feeling secure and looked after. When husband started to drink excessively the balance that we had went haywire. Those needs escalated way too far - on both sides - and life became totally unmanageable and hurtful. Life is a learning curve, for sure. I'm thankful for that.
Melly, there always is the possibility of recovery. Several members here are managing to keep their relationships together miraculously while spouses are in early recovery and that amazes me. Sometimes, the connection is really strong and both people can get healthy together. It does work and can work for couples too I know. I think my experience may be tainted because none of my partners when drinking were people with whom I shared kids with and it was not so difficult to break up (even though I lived with them). It wasn't like they were the other parent to my kids and a family was being busted up. I didn't have to consider how they were as a father/mother and the needs of other people. I also never had kids so there wasn't an issue of how my own addiction affected my kids.
It's a sad and tragic disease. I know that if it was someone I was married to for over a decade and they were the parent of my children and I relied on their income....AND all these other factors, things would be SOOOO freaking difficult. For this reason, I know I can't just say "Leave that loser! What is wrong with you!? That alcoholic is a broken person that you will never be happy with!!" It is not that simple. Furthermore, I found recovery...so can others. I've also been around alanon enough to know that everyone has their own journey and their own ESH after working the program. People will find their way whether with the qualifier or not.
Also, I was with my ex-A for 7 years. We went through a lot together. I don't consider the whole relationship a waste. We were a match for a period of time and there were times that it was not so toxic as other times. Ultumately though, it was a sick relationship even though the love was real.
Thanks everyone for your insights and sharing your honest experience about dealing with partners both dry and drunk, and what it is to be that dry partner as well. I'm in the midst of my Fourth Step, and this pattern of falling into a lull of complacency during dry periods of the alcoholics in my life is part of it. I appreciate hearing the reminder of how pervasive the disease is in both me and the alcoholics around me.
Thanks Mark.
I have to say that in my case, the hubby wasn't drinking when we got married. He drank around his family but they had to buy. I never saw him drunk back then. We were poor married college kids and did not buy booze. After he graduated and started to have spare cash he started with beer and then escalated to whiskey. We had a few years with no booze in the house. I had no idea how great it was.... or how bad it would get. I never, though, blamed the booze. I blamed the job pressures. I watched the emotional age go down to about 15. I saw the spiritual side disappear. I still blamed the job. I learned about alcoholism from AlAnon. Then all that I saw made sense.
I'm sure the love can be real and deep, but also based on my experience and knowledge, romantic love with an alcoholic/addict almost always gets muddled up with neediness, enabling, and it turns into a parent/child dynamic too. That doesn't make the love fake or a fantasy though.
Great post pinkchip. Interesting subject, love. I doubt it can have much meaning where there is active addiction. Its a word, easy to say and mostly said when the addicted person wants to get their way in order for the disease to continue. I know its not conference approved but the big book talks about the addicted persons motives and its all about them. When i think of love and how i love today. I can love others for who they are right now much easier, im not looking at their faults and deciding if they are worthy or not. The drinkers in my life didnt love me, they couldnt see me to love me, they werent interested enough or capable of being interested enough. They would say they do but if love is acceptance of the person then i never loved them either.
The idea of soul mates and the person being wonderful when sober is denial and its the disease of alcoholism i believe. Having this belief ensures survival of the disease.
Yeah he's so great when he's sober.... But eventually there's so little sobriety anyway that the great sober guy is pretty much gone altogether. This disease is so dreadfully progressive.
Mark, I tend to agree with you. My XAH didn't drink for the first 15 years of our marriage yet we were completely dysfunctional. Did we love each other? Of course we did. But, the relationship was wrought with self esteem issues (on both sides), passive aggressive behavior(on his side), denial (on both sides), communication issues, and the list goes on. When he picked up the drinking again, it was so clear to me that it was our toxic dysfunction that was just as much the problem as it was the drinking. I don't think my XAH was ever actually sober. He was physically sober from alcohol for a long time but he was not emotionally, mentally, or spiritually sober through it all. Just my 2 cents!
Love this topic, by the way. I think it's really important for us to evaluate these things periodically through our recovery.
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
Thank you for your insight here. I find myself falling back to thoughts about how different life felt when my ex A was dry (has not really gotten sober) and even falling into something else with an A in recovery while turning a blind eye to all the isms that were still vying for first place. What you wrote about attracting people to manage your life really struck me. I have been considering, with the help of my sponsor, the types of relationships I have had including my long marriage and how it is that I took on the role of manager.
I really got a lot out of this. "that sober me who couldn't stand to be sober"....says it all. It also makes me feel a detached compassion, cuts through the anger because its just true. An alcoholic can't handle sobriety. Which makes recovery such an amazing thing. It also is a valuable path to qtip. An alcoholic cant stand sobriety....plus Jerry f's compulsion of the mind and allergy of the body
