The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I'm going to share something that I haven't told anyone yet. Especially the A. Being separated from him is hard. Trying to show tough love and taking care of myself is still new to me. I love my AH deeply. 18 years of being by someone's side and not being appreciated and given love that i deserve is heartbreaking. I was no walk in the park either. I had my moments, but I was there. Always there. I gave him love, held his hand, took care of him the best I could. Stood by him when he was incarcerated, when he didn't have a job. That's what a good spouse does right?
Now I'm so scared that if our relationship really does end. I mean divorce and custody. That he will quit drinking and move on to give the love and best of himself to another. To give someone else what I worked so hard to get from him for years, love and companionship that I feel I deserve to someone else. I know people move on. That's what happens. It will devastate me. I want him to be happy, but with me! Am I being selfish?? Is it normal to feel this way ? I want to be worthy of receiving the best of him not just the worst! But how long and how much should I have to sacrifice to get there? This DISEASE has taken everything out of me. I know I know I can't make him see it or change him! This has always bothered me and I never shared it with anyone.
There are two acronyms I have heard for FEAR - one of them is Future Events Aren't Real. You are imagining a future that, if you step back and look at it, you will realize is way too rose-colored. If you leave him, it will be for events that are happening now. You have had much patience over the years, and if you are at the point where you feel you must leave him, know that Future Events Aren't Real. You can't predict the future, you can only know what today is like.
And, if he does somehow get over this, you will already have moved on and it won't hurt. Or who knows, maybe you would get back together? But with what you are going through right now, I would live it one day at a time.
Also, keep going to meetings and coming back here. If you keep doing that, you will reduce your dependency on his live, and increase your use of self-love. Many people have discovered that, with enough self-love, they are able to value themselves enough to know when they are being abused, taken advantage of, etc and won't put up with it anymore. Just a couple years ago, I would let anybody do almost anything to me, I was very passive. I have come to the point now where I understand who is in charge of what in my life, and most of it is me, not others. That includes my happiness.
This is an excellent question, keep coming back and asking more!
I did worry about this for a long time too. I think it's something that keeps a lot of us stuck, we have invested so much, what if we are jumping ship right before things get good? What if I leave and he finds someone else and then he treats them well and he becomes happy and functional? What if I have to deal with the pain of letting go of him and he thrives and is happy?
I had to really dissect that fear and work out what it was. I did that as part of my step 1-3 with my first sponsor, which I can't recommend enough. It changed everything for me, dramatically.
So of course it won't be the same for you but I'll share a little bit about what I discovered about that fear, how I broke it down, it might be helpful to you, it might be completely off base for you.
I had to wonder what I was really afraid of. After almost a decade of watching his behaviour get worse and worse, why did I think he would suddenly get better if I left him? Why did I think he was going to find the woman of his dreams and become a happy family man if i was out of the picture?
I realised there were 2 things going on. 1) I actually, deep down and without knowing it, had taken on responsibility for his addiction and dysfunction. I had believed it was my fault on such a deep level for so long that I therefore assumed, if I left, he would get better. I didn't know this consciously, if you had asked me if his drinking and horrible behaviour were my fault I would have said NO WAY! but deep down I still believed it. I felt in my bones if I left, he would magically become well. Maybe I wanted him to stay as he was. Maybe I needed him to think he needed me. Yikes.
2) I could not see any real vale in myself other than, I could tolerate his nonsense. Once again I didn't know I felt this way but i really did. I couldn't see anything else worthwhile about myself other than the fact that I was his rock, I was loyal and faithful and caring and tolerant and selfless. That was all that I really felt was valuable about me. If he didn't stay sick and need me, what would I be?
These were not easy things to realise but they were the beginning for me, when I realised how little value I placed on myself and started to work on it the fear eased. Common sense started to creep in. It wasn't likely he was going to suddenly become super healthy and well adjusted and marry a supermodel. He was, is, horribly sick and insisting on staying that way and that was why I was leaving. The getting Them Sober books helped me a lot with this understanding, with getting a better perspective on why I was so confused and sick that I thought I was the one who was depending on him...that he was some kind of wonderful guy that would become amazing if I wasn't in the picture.
I don't have that fear now. It has only been 4 months since we lived together and I am not focused on him or afraid of what will happen now. I've invested a lot of time and effort into learning how to be my own best friend and it has paid off; my happiness doesn't depend on him needing me anymore.
That's jus my experience with the fear you describe anyway, I hope it helps in some way.
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
I like what MissM just said. it reminds me that, even though I'm not in the situation you are in, if I were in the situation, my deep-down reason would be fear of failure. I hate losing. I hate it so much that I will just not take something on if I don't see a relatively obvious way I can succeed. But once I have taken it on, then by golly, I'm not letting go. Well, unless I can figure out a way of getting everybody into denial that I ever took it on in the first place. Yeah, it's amazing the lengths I will go to to not fail. And many of them are passive-agressive, if I see failure coming, I will create denial that I ever took that on. Makes me shake my head to write that down.
By any reasonable means, I would never have even married my wife. We had a fair number of issues on both sides from the beginning. She didn't value me, I didn't value her, at least we didn't seem to be able to value each other in a language we understood. But by God, I wasn't going to fail at marriage. So I held on, and held on. That's the one thing I couldn't create denial I guess - hey guys, you know that whole marriage thing, yeah, I ddin'nt really mean it, it didn't really happen... NO, I couldn't get that to fly.
She wasn't alcoholic until the last few years. When she became alcoholic, I held on and held on still. She would tell me when she woke up from a drunken stupor that there was no way she would have hung around for me if our situations were reversed. But I hung on. I WASN'T GOING TO FAIL AT THIS MARRIAGE THING! There are no divorces in my family, even though I urged my mom to divorce my dad when I was a teenager, he was such an ass to her, no alcohol involved. So, am I to sit in a marriage that isn't working and deny it for years and years, as was modeled by my parents, or do something about it?
So I tell you this long rambling story to illustrate that there are many different reasons and, as Melly said, there is no substitute for doing the steps and thinking and dissecting your situation. Yours may not be fear of failure, taking responsibility for him being an A, or devalueing yourself, it could be something completely different. But once you discover what that is, you can be set free!
I catch myself all the time saying "I'm scared of this thing that is causinng me to react unreasonably because of ____________" Fill in the blank, because fear of failure isn't the only problem with me. But I recognize it, and can figure out how to work through the problem. I often can myself, sometimes need to consult with an Al Anon friend or my wife.
Many other people here have similar stories to tell from working the steps. You can too. Just keep going to meetings, and keep coming back here!
Kenny
-- Edited by KennyFenderjazz on Wednesday 8th of April 2015 02:46:01 PM
I've had many break ups of long term relationships....some due to alcoholism. I think 5 relationships all over 4 years and 1 that was 7 years since I was 16 years with maybe t months or a year single in between the relationships. So I basically consider myself a break up/move on and get over the loss expert of sorts. In most cases, the person did better after we broke up. And you know what? If it takes breaking up with me or divorce to make someone start doing good in life....move the hell on is what I have come to believe.
I have had enough relationships gone bad to know that time is precious and my happiness and serenity are everything. I am not going to hold anyone hostage again in a sad, toxic relationship because of my fears and insecurities and I am not going to make myself miserable on the hopes that another person will change and be better for me.
I agree with your assessment that you are a good spouse, but that doesn't mean your husband is good spouse material or that you have a good marriage. HENCE, trying to be a good spouse in your scenario might not pay out the way it's supposed to. I understand your loyalty and your mode of thinking. It's honorable...but it has to be reciprocated and from a person capable of doing so.
Often times with the disease of alcoholism, a person needs to be on their own for a while to grow up, be responsible, start doing basic self-care, and start acting like a grown up. This was the case when I got sober. I had to live on my own for a good 2 years to be capable of a mature relationship because I had stopped doing all housework, cleaning, taking care of my car, my health, hadn't been to the doctor in AGES. I needed a friggin mommy at that point and not a spouse. It took 2 years of being on my own again after I reduced myself to nonfunctional level from drinking to even present myself to someone else as something other than a big bag of neediness.
My point here is that sometimes you do have to let go of some things and some people so that they can grow. I don't know if that is the case here or not, but don't be scared and don't assume that it's because you were not good enough. That is not the case. This is crap that occurs unfortunately in a lot of relationships and even more so when alcoholism is brought in.
Everyone always used to tell me "nobody can truly love you until you love yourself" and I used to want to beat the hell out of them when they said that. Now I do understand it is true. You don't "need" your AH. If he does crappy or does great it's really ultimately on him and not you. He doesn't need to make or break everything even though it's been a very long relationship and you have a lot invested in it. You can do great and feel great and love yourself a lot better than anyone else and it doesn't need to be dependent on him. It's your life. When you marry someone or have a long relationship with them, your are co-mingling your journeys, but you don't literally give your life to them. That life belongs to you and it belongs to your higher power. So it is irrelevant if he does better without you. You will do better when you reclaim yourself and that is what matters more.
I think it's completely normal to feel that way because it goes back to things I have needed to work on. Honestly, my XAH is doing "better" from the outside looking in .. is he better? Umm .. noooo .. lol .. he's working he's paying court ordered support that the state takes out of his check and that's ok with me. He has a new mommy to clean up his mess and again .. I'm good .. it benefits the kids and I.
The completely normal part is this .. what's so wrong with me that he can't love me back. That's really what the itty bitty sh@tty committee was saying inside my head. Nothing changes and trust me nothing changes.
He still doesn't follow through, he still isn't doing what he needs to do with the kids, there is a list I can go with .. I get the reminder from time to time regarding how little has truly changed so while he's doing ok right now .. show me where he is at in 4 - 5 years .. how about 3 - 4 months after we go to court and the truth of what he hasn't done all comes out.
Instead of focusing on what he is doing currently I'm just keeping the focus on what I need to do for the kids and I.
Like I said as long as my support keeps coming I don't worry about it. The reality is I am working on getting better.
Hugs S )
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I remember feeling like that. It suggests that he has this big store of love and all the good things that he is intentionally holding back and someday it will all come flooding out, just when im good enough. that day never comes, ever. Untreated alcoholism means to me that some things just are not there and thats that. I used to think i had the power and someday he wojld be normal, it might when i cook the right dinner or when i say the right things at the right time. I was insane in my quest to get this man to be the man i wanted. It never happened and it took me 20 yrs to realise. He showed me who he was and what he had but i didnt believe him.
Everyone's response is giving a bit of an eye opener. I know I don't need him. I have been pretty much on my own our whole relationship. With him in and out of jail every couple of years. You all made me feel better. Because all of understood exactly how I'm feeling. At this point I need to get a sponsor. I really need to learn how to start working the steps and evaluate where this is coming from. I need find some peace of mind. I am reading and going to meetings but I honestly don't know how to work the steps. Thank you everyone. Ever time time I come to the board I feel a little better about my decisions.
It's so hard to get used to making decisions for *you*. most of us are taught not to be selfish from a young age, which is good. But sometimes we aren't taught when to say enough is enough, or made to understand who is responsible for whose serenity and peace. striking the balance between those two is hard, but doing that and making the occasional mistake is better than always having our rights and trampled.
It really is hard to accept people for what they are sometimes... I often wonder what is it in me that keeps making me see my partner better than he is, when even when things are good he still feels bad and later tells me he felt bad. I wonder why I thought those times were good, hearing him talk about it makes me feel worse about good memories even. I have that fear too, that if the relationship ends then my partner will become better and treat someone else better .. maybe but from the amount of people I've spoken to that have had this similar experience say that the person rarely changes only when they want to and if they don't care about the effect you have on their life while with you chances are they'll care little without you too. I still have a hard time believing it myself. I still have the same fears you do. I don't know. Supposedly life is alright without the people that make us feel shitty :-/ I believe people that have gone through this and are on the other end .. I wish I had your strength
If he gets better...... if he turns into this really nice guy...... if- if- if-.....
If that happens then you can start dating and see if you want to re-marry him. Until then, you take care of yourself. Live with what is happening right now.
I like what el-cee said......" It suggests that he has this big store of love and all the good things that he is intentionally holding back and someday it will all come flooding out, just when im good enough."
That's exactly what I thought. I wondered when that big store of love and all the good things would come out. We have been married 44 years and it hasn't come out yet. He has been sober from alcohol for 15 years, had cancer 8 yrs ago and quite liked the pain pills, but got off them too with the help of AA. And the "good things" still haven't spilled out of him. It was all my illusion of what I thought he was. He was on the receiving end of someone who idolized him for years and years. He came to take it as his due. And I got sadder and sadder until I couldn't find my happiness at all, even though now I look back after 15 years in AlAnon and see that I had plenty of things to be happy about..... he wasn't one of them, but other things, like my kids, were fantastic.
So what was MY part in it? I let it happen........ I didn't take care of myself. AlAnon can change that in your life. Take care of yourself.
I'm sad and empathize for anyone who feels this way. No one should have to. I'm also glad that there are people out there who understand. When I start thinking about giving in and going back, I stop and think real hard on what that would mean. I'd be giving up on myself, giving up on the kids having a healthy normal loving environment. There are a list of things I would be giving up. I can't do it anymore because the only person I have been doing it for is him.. It hurts and I always have second thoughts. Then I look at the bank account or he calls me in one of his moments and I remember again why I'm doing this. I want to be happy I believe I deserve to be happy. I just need to learn how to do that again. It is hard to leave the only life I've ever known.
I kept getting stronger the more i worked my program
And reaching out for support from good loving people.
It is a process that takes time to get there.
Finding my HP was a big for me and then letting
Go of self will set me free. Neither was quick or easy
But trusting God to take care of me was empowering.
I still need to do my part and do the next best thing.
It has been tough but Iam used to tough. I have cried and cried but I have also jumped into all anon lots . Of meetings phone calls when I was lonely all anon has, helped so so much. He came here drunk the other day as I get better he gets worse I pray for him but I am finding the girl I lost I have one life I am starting to live again thanks to and all anon.
I've been following this thread, not wanting to admit out loud that this is EXACTLY how I feel! Thank you everyone who replied to this thread, I'm learning so much!
"It has been tough but I am used to tough." Tracy, that's a wonderful phrase. Here's to tackling the good tough things instead of trying to endure the bad tough things.
I was married to the A for many years, 25 to be exact...hoping and praying that he would become sober... I had those same feelings you have. That I had invested the time and why should anyone else reap the rewards... (and just what are the rewards)
The thing is we cannot project what we think will happen, because nothing we think will happen, happens.
I ended up separating from him as I had reached my limit, and 8 years later , he died from his alcoholism. Just a year and a half ago.
We must do what's best for our lives and try to live thru this day, be in the moment. We must respect ourselves and our lives and not live for another person , especially when that other person is a broken, addicted person. We cannot do this without help and I'm glad you are here and in Alanon , where we find solutions, not just go day by day hoping it will get better. There disease is a life long process. You want to be with him every step of the way, that is your decision. But life is precious to live it with someone, addicted or not, that does not appreciate you. You shouldn't have to sacrifice any of yourself. Know yourself, respect yourself, appreciate yourself, be grateful for your life.
Wishing you the best, keep on using the tools of Alanon for your life. Hugs, Bettina
-- Edited by Beatrice on Sunday 12th of April 2015 05:25:52 PM
-- Edited by Beatrice on Sunday 12th of April 2015 05:26:34 PM
I used to feel this same exact way and like MissMeliss, I found it was a lack of seeing my own value. The chance that an A is going to make such a remarkable changes are very low. Unfortunately our A's would have to work so hard on their program and want to do the work and it is a ton, just like us working our program it takes diligence. Working my program has taught me how to make the changes within myself and to start to love myself and see my own worth. I left my exAH awhile back, but still hope he does start to work his own program someday soon. It's been enough time I have healed and I am doing great and I wish A.A. and Al-anon for everyone. Sending you love and support on your journey!
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
Even though I have not personally met or know any of you. I feel so much love and support from everyone. I am starting to see little changes in myself. I don't wait for his calls or even answer the phone when he does call. If I want to go for a walk or a hike I go. As a matter of fact if I want to do anything I do it. The kids are with me all the time now so I don't have to worry about him drinking and driving with the kids or them even seeing him drunk. I have been able to physically and mentally take care of myself. It really hasn't been that long since our separation but these are all changes I have been waiting for for so long! I finally had the strength to get up and walk away. I was walking slowly hoping he could give me a reason to stay, I know now there is nothing there for me. So this is me finally understanding what it means to LET GO!!!!!
and all anon.