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I'm confused by this term. I see a lot of people using it to describe
1. Newly sober behavior
2. Dry drunk behavior
3. Behaviors they just don't like or agree with
4. Jerky A-hole behavior
5. Erratic behavior
To me, sober people show a lot of the behaviors that are mentioned too. Alcoholics don't have the market on jerky behavior. How do you know if what you are referring to as "alcoholic behaviors" is really alcoholic behavior or just behavior you don't like or agree with. Or maybe the person is just a jerk?
To me, alcoholics are emotionally underdeveloped and that manifests in a ton of different ways....they could act domineering and controlling out of insecurity or they could be totally withdrawn and act like they don't care about anything...opposite behaviors but both rooted in the disease (just to give an example). So pinpointing "alcoholic behavior" is difficult.
Clearly, active alcoholism, drinking, lying...blaming...that stuff I do understand as alcoholic behaviors....that much I do understand.
I used to say "please excuse my husband he's a drunken asshole"
now I say "please excuse my husband he's an asshole"
and last night he said the same thing to me.... basically he's still a jerk but he's a sober jerk now... as he gets healthier he can learn that his behavior is not acceptable.
as a newly sober person he is able to finally see how certain words bother me. when he was drinking those words were used to hurt and now he can hear me say "those words are not acceptable" while drinking he did NOT care if he hurt me or used those words... NOW as a sober person he HEARS how those words bother me. and I SEE the effort to not say them. It does not mean he does not slip up and call me those names or use a particularly vile word to describe certain people. WHEN he was drinking I would not say anything as it would make him angrier. Now I can say "honey I really don't like it when you use that word" and HE HEARS ME. He still does it but he's making progress...
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-- ladybug
We come to love not by finding a perfect person, but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.
Well, often newly recovering co-alcoholics who don't know any of this yet will use this term. I think it is reasonable if that is the point where you are at, because you don't know and often don't know that you don't know. It is part of the education and recovery process I for them I believe.
BTW lol Ladybug!
Kenny
-- Edited by KennyFenderjazz on Tuesday 7th of April 2015 08:07:41 AM
I tend to mean "addict" when I say A, so "A behaviour" = addict behaviour, or behaviour that I perceive as being directly related to addiction and coping mechanisms that were developed when trying to protect and hide addiction. So it's broad I guess but no, it doesn't cover just generally being a jerk or not to my liking.
That's my interpretation.
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
I think when a person gets caught up in any addiction, their emotional growth stops. In essence, they become arrested in their development. And as a codependent, this happened to me as well. So without labeling my A's behavior, I think it is a result of immature behavior as they stopped growing, and all the junk that comes with alcohol/drugs i.e. lying, sneaking, not taking responsibility, being defensive, etc. This stuff is very complicated! Lyne
Pinkchip, when I think of "A" behavior ... there are actions that are passive/aggressive, which runs a whole gamut of manipulative game playing in order to make excuses to drink.
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"Forgiveness doesn't excuse bad behavior, but it
does prevent bad behavior from destroying your heart". ~ unknown
Good question, I know Im guilty of blaming negative behaviours on alcoholic behaviours. I am coming to learn that the disease of alcoholism is a bit different from the term 'alcoholic.' I have behaviours of my own that I put down to the disease of 'alcoholism' as I am beginning to see that this disease has been rampant throughout my whole family so I have been effected by 'alcoholism' my whole life.
Every single shortcoming I seen in my ex ah, every single one without exception I also found in myself. This has meant that I am putting two and two together and I can see that the disease of alcoholism is the cause rather than the alcoholics in my life. The disease of alcoholism, I have learned to respect in a way. Its huge, powerful and got into just about every aspect of my life from a young age so of course I found another human on the planet who made me feel comfortable with what I knew. Both he and I have this disease and together we created a big big mess. We are both apart recovering from the disease and I am grateful to Alanon that I can see that reality now, it means I have compassion for everyone affected by alcoholism rather than the 'them' and 'us' mentality I had for years.
I am glad you wrote this because I know I (ignorantly) use this term! Maybe I am still looking for reasons to explain unacceptable, or unacceptable-to-me behavior. I think there are traits that I have noticed in some of the As I know, but now I am seeing that is not necessarily alcoholic behavior...or doesn't need to be labeled that?
My SO is a stone cold teetotaller jerk and my son doesn't have any A tendencies when sober that I know of. Right now my son is back to the son I had 10 years ago.....now I pray he continues to grow and becomes the man he wants to be.
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
I think the saying goes sometimes an ass is just an ass it doesn't matter if there is alcohol involved or not.
In the past I have used the term alcoholic behavior because I haven't understood how to describe it any other way. Or dry drunk behavior because I am referring strictly to the A in my life not all A's in general.
There certainly doesn't need to be alcohol or addiction for people to be hurting in general and not have coping skills in dealing with real world situations Pain is pain and it just manifests itself differently.
What I see in my daughter and I am just as guilty of it is this need to label others and herself. It's so much easier to slap a label on to another person or myself because it's a neat package. It helps me rationalize my behavior the behavior of someone else and I don't have to deal with my own character defects in whatever given situation.
Something that we are constantly having a discussion over is why do you feel the need to slap a label on to everything it's not always that simple and I think that is just true for people in general.
Working on keeping the focus on the person I am dealing with however really trying to focus on my own behavior so I don't wind up being a sober jerk in any given situation. Being human I think it just part of the process. It's not an easy task to accomplish and I am desperately trying to stay away from labels .. sometimes it's the quick and easy way to deal with the A in my life. It just is what it is and it's easier to refer to it as alcoholic behavior especially in dealing with someone who doesn't believe that there is an issue since it's not an issue to them.
Hugs great topic though, definitely food for thought!
S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
When I refer to alcoholic behavior, I mean the behavior that one of my qualifiers exhibits when that person is under the influence of alcohol that that qualifier does not exhibit while not under the influence of alcohol.
I think I use it to justify the "disease aspect" of alcoholism. When actually he is a jerk because that is how he grew up in his alcoholic household..... to be controlling and argumentative and judging and competitive. He had an alcoholic father, grandfathers and 5 brothers. I used to say it was because of growing up in a house full of boys, but it was really the alcoholism.
Al-Anon, in its typical thoughtfulness and insight, refers to "the family disease," which to my mind describes everything shared in this thread.
It's also my opinion that this "family disease" is the real problem and that alcoholism, addictions, codependency, and all their traveling companions are manifestations of this disease and not the disease itself. Rather, the real disease is the family dysfunction that has been passed from one generation to the next, expressing itself in childhood wounds that occurred so early in development that few have conscious awareness or memories of how or when they happened. Each of us develops maladaptive thinking and behaviors to cope with and survive those wounds. We often carry those survival tools, which we needed then but only cause trouble today, into adulthood, where they influence our relationships with others (and not in a productive or life-giving way).
Some turn to substance abuse. Others turn to denial and superficiality. Some of us become codependent and unconsciously seek out those who we can caretake, fix, or rescue. Or maybe some of us find the other side of the codependency coin and look for someone to define the identity we never formed ourselves.
Part of what makes this "family disease" cunning, baffling, powerful, and self-perpetuating is that all who suffer from it tend to seek each other out. We mistakenly try to fix what's broken by finding someone who pushes all the right (maybe "wrong" is the better word for it) buttons, but instead of fixing anything, these relationships tend to exacerbate the disease.
That's why I am so grateful for the program. Al-Anon offers an opportunity at a different way to heal my wounds, by putting the focus on myself, by offering new ways of seeing and thinking about things, by encouraging me to rely on a Higher Power and not just my own mixed-up efforts, and by introducing me to a fellowship who models healthy behavior as described in the Steps and Traditions.
Thank you 1911, you put that in a way i can relate to and understand. Its taken me a while but this explains why its not just the alcoholic within families that is sick. In some ways i was sicker and i look back and i can see the sickness was way before my marriage, i see it in my family of origin and it must have went back further than that. The alcohol part is almost like the medicine for the underlying disease rather than the cause of the disease. Great topic.
Well said 1911, it is what i am battling with right
Now in my life with my dry ah and his mother. Its a
Battle i can not win because they keep feeding off each
other and my MIL keeps sweeping the family disease
That came thru her and her father under the rug.
There is no accountablity from either of them except
they are both very sick and neither looks like they will
change Anytime soon. Enabling, codie,enmeshed and
Dysfunctional relationship. I get madder at my MIL
than i do about my dry ah AA gf.
My ah knew who to turn to when he became displeased
With me and needed support against his wife. My life
Will be so much better when i can cross those two off
My list. It feels like evilness but in reality it is the family
Disease of alcoholism at work with all its hidden nastiness
And need to be kept secret. My MIL states my ah is not
An alcoholic because he no longer drinks. She really
Believes that and he attends AA. My MIL defines the
Family reality to this day.
I hope i did not hijack the thread. Just needing to vent
My frustrations that have no easy or good answers. I
Am honest about my family i do not see why my ah
Never could be honest even now with him going to AA .
He actually started acting much worse emotionally and
verbally. All thanks to the family disease.
