The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
My situation is I HAVE to stay strong for my 7 yr old Grandsons sake who is in foster care at present but social services are going to reassess me to look after him
So it is VITAL I stay strong with my DD who is an alcoholic
She is down right now and her sister is worried about her , it is not that I am not concerned but I cannot be ''sucked in'' ... I have done what I can and the rest is up to her
It is horrible to even have possible suicide of our loved one hanging over our heads but I have to have hope and faith she will recover at some point
My DD reached out to me yesterday in a bad way so I gave her the number for drinkline and said if it gets really bad go to A&E and ask to see a psyche doctor
She then asked if she could stay over at mine for a few days as she needs her Mum but I did not reply to that text
It is out of the question basically!
It is vital I seperate myself from her alcoholism not just for my own wellbeing but social services need to SEE this , that I will stand my ground with her and never be manipulated so it is good for me to have this incentive actually as it helps with my motivation but it is hard because it is ONGOING and in this case scenario I have to be strong all the time so I thought I would come in here for some support and encouragement as it is not easy but I HAVE to do it for MY sake and wellbeing and for the sake of my Grandson
I do not want to lose him into the care system and will do anything I can to prevent that even seperating myself from my own DD in order to suitably care for him and ensure the safety boundary is in place at all times!!
Great post nanny. You have got this. Your actions are most likely the most loving actikns for your daughter. Providing her with a soft place to sober up is helping her disease to progress, its tough for mothers. Not buying into her suicide threats is another loving act, it would most likely to cause it to continue and esculate whcih could be more dangerous for her. Shes brought out the biggie, the i need my mother card, the little girl lost act, sorry to sound sceptical but its typical manipulation. I would most likely have fallen for that one. Well done, you have done brilliantly and your love of your grandchild is helping you do the right thing despite getting it from all sides. She is a grown women, who knows what shes doing mire than she would let on. She knows where to go for help and she knows what to do. Your grandson and you are the priorities.
Thank you so much , it is VITAL that I stay strong , for myself and my Grandson
It is good with the boundaries in place , it gives us security and we all need security
To be honest social services 'expect' it from me that is why I have to have it in place pretty much permanently as there is a long road ahead with my DD and I am going to have to be an expert in boundaries when dealing with my DD with my GS in my care!
No let up but in many ways it does become easier the more you do it , like training really but I really needed to get stronger the thing now is staying strong and sticking to my guns always
There is security and liberation in it though and it has been good for me!!
I admire you nannynoo. You are clearly in the UK and I can only imagine how hard it must be managing divided loyalties. My AS has a 2 year old who lives with her (to me, messed up) Mum. Contact between them is problematic of course.
I need to know how to stay strong - to be honest, I constantly doubt I can. My AS went on antabuse in Jan and was doing ok - I already suspected he relapsed by early March and suspected he wasn't on it anymore - last thursday he was due to exchange contracts, selling the house he lives in and moving in with a friend (who I doubt really knows what's going on). On Weds he rang - very distressed, been binge drinking and was withdrawing. Nowhere near ready to move. I had to go and sort it - partly for the buyers. I felt very alone with all this given my wife (his step-mum) has had enough, his Mum keeps a distance and he's pretty friendless. He's moved in with a reportedly sensible friend but I dread what will happen if (when) the drink takes over again. He was diagnosed with bi-polar 2 in DEC and I don't think he's yet medicated right (or not managing his meds? He's dyslexic - v poor short term memory) - he's still in work by skin of teeth but on a warning and I feel hopeless that he'll not manage. He's under NHS addiction unit - and doing counselling but, personally, I think they are pretty poor - and the mental health team are woeful.
And so, I am terrified he'll be on the streets. I find it so hard to see him scared, acting 'strange', depressed and am really am not sure I could cope with things getting worse. AAnon advises various approached. I get most of them intellectually (tho some seem pretty contradictory to me) but - emotionally - I can't bear it. Like I said, I admire you.
I only get like this because I've had enough of the stress and stress is not good FOR ME and therefore my GS
To be honest even if I did not have my GS as an incentive I would still have to take care of me
I learnt this the hard way and am STILL learning believe me as it could get worse before it gets better for my DD and she is heading towards 'worse' already including being homeless and possibly placed in a grotty hostel which I don't know what would do to her head , so am praying it doesn't get that bad for her sake and she says she does not want to go residential rehab
I suffered with burnout 9 months ago which is why my GS was taken in the first place - I ended up practically living with my DD as social services said I had to be there if she was drinking so I was , but she was drinking most of the time so I had to stay there which was HELL ON EARTH believe me , still hate thinking about it but it was a nightmare and it would NOT be my choice to live with an alcoholic!!! My health was suffering and it took a while to recover from the burn out and now I am struggling to get my GS even though they offered him to me right at the beginning but I had nothing left to give after taking care of both my DD and GS for 5 months ( and guess which one was waaaaaaay more difficult to take care of?! lol ) so it would not have been wise to start day 1 off being totally exhausted and suffering from burn out and I just could not do it , hence he went into care
I am well now but want to KEEP IT THAT WAY , hence protecting myself from stress as much as I can which is vital to all of us xx
Nannynoo are you going to face to face meetings.
They will help you learn new tools in loving detachment
And good healthy boundaries among other things.
Also you will break the isolation the disease causes.
That is the real beginning of the recovery journey
Walking thru the doors of alanon meetings. You listen,
Learn and absorb. This is where the actual changes
In us happens.
There is so much to learn and face. We need to change
Us inside, the addict needs to help themselves. You can
Not do that for them.
Alanon is about self care, self love and self acceptance.
It is a me program about healing us because we get as
Sick as the addict but in a different way.
You learn how to take care of yourself in spite of the
Addict in your life. Your HP first then you and others
Afterward.
Not been to a meeting yet yet def taking care of me as I HAVE to and want to and need to
It is at the point where family members ring me now panicking about my DD and I have to tell them not to be sucked in and to take care of themselves
I am getting more and more used to it the more I do it
If I ever feel the need to attend a meeting I will for sure
Managing things for now thankfully with the help of this forum etc and simply dealing with things
It is how it is and I can't change it , just have to deal with it as it comes along , but always protect myself from becoming 'involved' it feels better that way as in I stay sane and well
I don't want to be pressured to go to meetings but I do still like to share on here as it really helps to share with people who are understanding because they have been there / are there themselves and can relate
Mirandac I do believe changes have well and truly happened in me WITHOUT walking through the doors of an Alanon meeting as I have picked up and learnt so much about detachment over time
I think I do have tools in loving detachment and good healthy boundaries
My recovery began a long time ago and I find it unfair to say recovery ONLY begins if / once you ''walk through those doors'' , yes am still learning but am definitely still changing even without having attended a meeting
As for 'where the actual change in us happens' mine started a while ago , not saying meeting would not help , just saying I am in fact doing very well even though have not attended one and my recovery started a good while ago even without a meeting
I find it patronising ie you are not doing it right until you attend a meeting
As mentioned for support and encouragement is why I posted here , nothing wrong with encouraging someone to attend a meeting , just the wording implies it is the ONLY way / we will fail without it and the others on here's encouragement was a ''well done'' which was ACTUALLY what I needed!!
I think that because this forum has alanon in the title i take it for granted that most people will attend meetings either here online or actual face to face meetings. I not only assume it but somewhere in me rightly or wrongly i expect it otherwise it becomes unbalanced for me, it rattles my sense of fairness. It could just be me but sometimes i feel like im giving the feedback and support but folks are unable to give back much because they just dont know alanon, they dont do it. I was given the tools freely and i do try to give them freely mostly but there is also a little part of me or big part that thinks it should keep gojng full circle, the esh, like a revolving door, lol. I want to keep getting what i give. I do believe there are other ways to get freedom, you have clearly reached your limit and have been making the changes. Where alanon comes in is the spiritual aspect of it, that has helped me heal parts i never knew existed. I love it, its the best thing that ever happened to me, so telling people to go to meetings is a loving act for me, im saying, its amazing, go, go. Most people dont believe me and we never see them again here on the forum. Oh well, i do hope you stick around for yourself but for me too, fairs fair.
-- Edited by el-cee on Tuesday 7th of April 2015 05:17:44 AM
Well done Nannynoo, I like the clarity of your actions and can relate to how tough it is to stand firmly.
I do not have the option of attending face to face meetings and like you I appreciate these boards - it is good to know that I am not alone and to be able to learn from others and share my experience with others as well. I have learnt from your post and I thank you for that.
Second thoughts, if you cant get to meetings, even if you wont go, hanging around, taking part is still okay with me.lol. i can relate to having a child hitting self destruct button. I am familiar with the pain.
the perfectionism and inner spoilt child comes out in me sometimes where im like, i want everyone to do it my way!!!!!!! Lol.
I just want to share that my experience is that with YEARS of therapy, and a degree in psych and a mother, aunt and cousin who were or are all social workers I KNEW the words. I understood it all. NONE of it worked for me till I kept going to meetings and finding a sponsor.
Learning that Al-anon is NOT about fixing the addict/alcoholic OR teaching me to cope but rather FIXING ME was hard. Accepting that I am broken and contributing to my AH dysfunction (although not the cause) was a big thing. Meetings really help.
But then I'm an addictive personality like my AH so swapping one bad addiction (people) for another (meetings and steps) is perfectly acceptable.
I guess we all want everyone to drink the kool-aid and be like us.
It's not the ONLY way... of course not just like AA is not the only way for addicts/alcoholics to get sober.. .there is OG and RR too... But an RR person will trash AA and an AA person will not approve of RR... it's human nature.
I think that the meetings help. I think that a lot of folks who are not entwined with addicts/alcoholics could also benefit from meetings.
I have two meetings that I go to each week... that's MY TIME to visit with my friends/sponsors and touch base with folks who GET ME.
this forum helps but it's that HUG at the meeting after the meeting that keeps me coming back.
__________________
-- ladybug
We come to love not by finding a perfect person, but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.
Well said Ladybug. It seems to be a common experience for alanoners and alcoholics alike. The professionals, therapists, top people in their fields couldnt help yet this program, bringing people together is the very thing that works. I do believe its a doing program and the meetings are a huge part of it for me. They keep me accountable and I need that or I would sit back and just 'think' rather than do. I love the hugs too, the human contact helps me feel wanted and helps build my self esteem. This forum comes a close second to that and the meetings here are so valuable. It is a doing program though, if you want the change and progress to continue and then reep the rewards.
I can tell you that the first couple of times I heard about detachment was through a Christian group called Overcomers. Wife had had a small accident in a parking lot, was brought to hospital and discovered to have alcohol in the old veins. She was recommended by one of the nurses to go to this Ovecomers class at a church a few miles away, she had gotten sober through that program. We got there and met the nurse there, and there were separate programs for men and women.
In the men's part, there were all As, some were on evening release from jail. It was like an open AA meeting, and was a big help to me. Also they gave me literature, which was the first place I learned about detachment. After I read that, I detached, and wife got fer first DUI, the first of her actual consequences for her drinking, rather than me shielding her from it.
i didn't go back, so didn't get much support, so went back to my old ways. Al Anon, which I joined later, was where I kept coming back to and got the support I needed.
My days and evenings are now taken up supporting my son in Boy Scouts, which is where I believe I should be, rather than worrying my fool head about my wife. It's hard to find a time to get to a meeting, and my home group is on Friday nights, which is now the worse, usually there is an activity. So this board is where I get a lot of my Al Anon support at this point in my life.
nannynoo, we are a passionate bunch, since Al Anon has literally saved many of our lives, but we also are a loving bunch. Just keep coming back and we will all grow together in the best way we know how - by sharing our ESH and sticking to Al Anon principles. It seems like you understand the principles well, so keep sharing and learning, and you will continue to see growth.
Kenny
-- Edited by KennyFenderjazz on Tuesday 7th of April 2015 09:45:00 AM
I suppose what I am saying is I like coming on here but don't want to ''feel forced'' to go to a meeting
The detachment thing took me a while to grasp , but even with slip ups I kept going and have to protect myself / my well being
On the drink driving thing I actually reported my DD to the police when was aware she had been drinking and turned up at my old house and the police told me to tell social services which of course I did
I also have not told my DD where I live
I have lived here for nearly 6 months and NEVER given in when my DD tries to manipulate me into telling her where I live or asks to come round coz she needs me
It is tough but I have to say no and I do not want her turning up drunk and distressing my GS here if he is placed with me
I also took weeks of abuse from my DD re the reporting her for drink driving but I had a duty to the public , let alone her , but she does not see it that way and of course I get abuse and blame when I tell social services she is still drinking , have not let up or given in , have stood my ground and found my strength through my HP , HE IS NOT ONLY IN MEETINGS BUT HERE WITH US EVERY MOMENT OF EVERY DAY , yes we need to be with people too and I do attend a coffee morning at a local church and some of the members who I am close to know my situation
Not many parents or people report their loved ones to the police if they get in the car and drink or not notify their own DD where they live but I had to do it and take the backlash which came through it , let alone 'siding' with social services 'against' my own DD but I had to do that for my GS's sake and still do
I love to have a choice but also need to know attending meetings is not compulsory and that our HP is with us at all times and that healing CAN and DOES come in those 'alone' moments too , they certainly have for me , have not fully explained EVERYTHING I have been through but I know my HP has given me the strength to go through it and it wasn't conditional or dependent on me attending meetings he did it from the inside out on a daily basis anyway and still is - I do call him God by the way as my HP is God
''A'' way is not the ONLY way and people do find healing without attending meetings but I do 100% agree with detachment as it has worked for me and I have to continue in it as I have a long road ahead and I believe I will succeed even if I never attending a meeting xx
I don't like the implications that I will fail if I don't attend meetings and personally do not believe it is accurate
Am doing REALLY well and KNOW I will continue to , with support , but like I said that support does not HAVE to come from a meeting , some people cannot get to meetings but still do really well , am not knocking the principles , they are what people have learnt from hard hard graft with an alcoholic and they have found what truly works and keeps them well , sane and empowered!! x
Sorry, i cant agree with you on this one. When i think of my journey in alanon the meetings have been the main part of the progress i have made. The human contact, all of it. The chair in every meeting with my name on it tells me i belong. Leave me to my own devices with books and the internet and i would still be sinking. I dont or didnt have the self discipline to learn this alone sitting my house. I had to take physical action, walk in the doors, see the faces, watch others tell their story, get the hugs, the connection. I got a face to face family, mainly women, older than me and they mothered me for a while and i needed that. I also needed to be accountable to my meeting, so i turn up every week, take my turn of setting the room up, being the greeter, making the tea, being the chairperson and sharing my progress each week, showing these people i was doing my bit. Taking part made me feel part of society again. I had isolated myself.
Everyone is different, some people may be able to learn it alone or without the face to face, some people can get a degree through distance learning so i know it must be possible, it isnt for me. Some people have health issues that stop them getting to meetings and this forum is a lifeline, the meetings here are great and there is the whole routine that face to face meetings have and its the next best thing.
I always suggest face to face meetings for every single new member, get them out, out of their own head, out into a place of hope. The whole experience is worth its weight in gold and unless you know it then im not sure you can compare it or evaluate it. Thanks for the topic, it has been good for me to think more deeply about what meetings mean to me.
You don't have to agree with me el-cee , what works for you certainly works for you and what works for me certainly works for me
If someone cannot get to a meeting it does not mean that person will neccessarily fail , we are all different , have different support networks and needs etc , one persons experience / need is not the same as the others , you share what works for you and I share what works for me , am definitely not telling people not to go to meetings but if they don't I am not going to tell them they will fail as that also rules out their HP who has a plan for every individual
People made it ( somehow ) before AA and Alanon was founded , probably through very good family and community / church support and prayers etc
I am not saying my way is for everyone , same as I hope you are not saying your way is for everyone either , there is A way though and we need to search our souls for what that is for US and also make the most of the resources which we feel ( hopefully ) will be helpful to us
I don't want to be shunned from the forum just because I don't attend meetings as that would be discriminatory and LOVE is for everyone surely whether they choose to attend a meeting or not , as is acceptance and understanding that others may choose a different way which is no less of a good path to recovery and progress etc otherwise how on earth would I have made such very good progress in this year and that progress won't just suddenly stop if I choose never to attend a meeting , a ''success rate'' isn't dependent on one particular method or 'conditions' which are WRITTEN IN STONE ie ''thou SHALT attend Al-anon'' or I will shun you and curse you and make sure you do not succeed in life , that is not a loving God or HP , we just have to do what works for us in our soul and truly seek the right path for us in life as an individual! x
Am not anti AA or Alanon and the methods / teachings of either but we have to remember that there is a choice and alcoholics DO recover without AA sometimes through counselling & medication etc and there are other methods out there which work for some people , others not and AA works for some people , others not , but am hoping if someone who was not attending AA reached out on the AA forum for support and encouragement that they would still get it without being hounded or pressurised to go to a meeting , you can gently encourage them to go and leave it at that but to bang on about it like their ONLY chance of healing and recovery is through attending AA is actually innaccurate as there are other methods with high success rates
I love the message on here and it works for me but to HAVE to attend a meeting ''in order for it to work'' is too conditional for me
I think I might have to leave this forum as am finding it too conditional , thank you , but am sure you wish me all the best in life and to do what works for me just the same as I wish you all the best in life and to do what works for you xxx
Hi Nanny.
Of course you won't be shunned from the forum, and of course it isn't compulsory to go to meetings!
One of the things I loved most about al-anon was the fact that there are no rules or expectations, I loved the "take what you like and leave the rest" philosophy.
To be honest I've never seen this become an issue on the board before, it's your choice what you do.
Conversely I do see what elcee means about it being a "pay it forward" program, it is and it's important for people to be working the program in some way to be discussing it here, not saying you aren't, not at all, I'm just saying I think I see where she is going with that train of thought. But your al-anon program is for you and by you and you can work it any way you want, that's half the beauty of it!
Anyway your presence and input are valued here!
(((Nanny)))
__________________
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Nanny, you are taking your own meaning from what i or anyone else have said. Noone would shun you, were good people here, most of us are healthy, we like the opportunity to think differently, were the opposite of conditioning dont you know!!!!! The day i got to alanon my conditioning, my preprogrammed misery ended. Its amazing, a miracle for me. Im free from that programming and im filling up on the good stuff, the programming that actually frees me.
In fact its the opposite for me, im interested in your viewpoint, ive been here 2 yrs and ive never heard your viewpoint before, its interesting to me. So i would hope you would keep coming back but people arent going to agree with you all the time. Seeing things differently is not being shunned or cursed nanny, not sure how those words came from this thread. Theres no ill will here. My new programming wont allow it. If you choose to leave then fair enough, its your choice but you have not been shunned or cursed, in fact personally i have given you just about the best ive got in terms of my esh.
Nanny I called the cops when my husband went out driving when he was drunk on Xmas eve. He was home before they found him. I would do it again. They went looking for him. I'm sorry your police don't care enough to look for a drunk driver.
I hope that you continue to progress with your plan of action and that you continue to use the forum to the best of your ability.
I don't think that your distaste of meetings should exclude you from getting healthy. But I don't really get why you are so adamant that you won't go to meetings. They may not help but they can't hurt.
__________________
-- ladybug
We come to love not by finding a perfect person, but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.
I moderated the AA board for quite some time. All newcomers are encouraged to go to meetings....even more so than here. Of course you won't necessarily "fail" without face to face meetings. BUT, they would maximize your chances of success. If you wanted to get better through alanon, those meetings would be part of the way....along with a sponsor and step work. If you believe in alanon, then you believe in alanon literature, meetings, alanon sponsors, alanon step work. That is Alanon. Period.
Of course folks come here and do not go to face to face meetings and this site helps them and that is great. However, it's not a good message to think half-assed alanon is going to get you maximum alanon recovery. It wont. You might get maximum "other" recovery some other way, but this is alanon as it says in the title so... Nobody would "hound you" to go to meetings and Miranda didn't do that before you took all her comments personally and fired off on her. She shared the beauty of what face to face alanon has done for her and then got crapped on for it.
Anyhow. They way I see it. This is an alanon forum. It is a nobrainer that people are going to encourage you to go to alanon meetings. You won't get hounded if you don't, but don't expect anyone to cosign that an ideal alanon program includes zero meetings.
People are generally scared, afraid, and isolated when they come here and this is often a Segway to meetings for many.....If they hear that meetings aren't really important, they wont go and it is more likely that they will stay isolated and in pain.
