Thanks Betty.
I did think on this the other day, the fact that he uses me as a bank and just expects me to provide for him. As I noted in el-cees thread tonight I used to buy him anything and everything I could, I even paid all the rent and bills and fed him and bought him smokes and drinks and gifts and took him on holidays etc for 2 years while he lay on the couch playing games!!! Its disgusting to even think about but I did create this revolting situation in many ways, and I did it because I didn't believe anyone could like me unless I did everything, and I mean everything I could possibly do to make them happy all the time, I paid for his every need even though i didnt have much myself because I honestly didn't see any other reason that anyone would stick around or like me.
It's so different for me now, I value me and I know my HP values me, I don't want or need to give everything away in a desperate bid for love or approval. But that doesn't make him different and it doesn't change these really sad precedents I have set in this sad, sad relationship.
I wonder what would have happened if I hadn't gotten the smokes. I wish i hadn't, it was a bad decision but you are right, I wont beat myself up I just need to learn from it and ask HP for the strength to let go of whatever I am still hanging on to here. I am better than this and enabling him to beg in this manner is demeaning to both of us.
Ugh.

Sounds like the idea:" when life gives you lemons  make lemonaide ". Glad you can come here and connect. 

Mel, I know for me that when I was single or fresh off a break up....I did get lonely and I did have needs for adult company. Even though I don't have kids, I have had jobs dealing with kids and adolescents all day long. So anyhow, this would sometimes drive me to contact exes out of familiarity. It seemed easier. I really do not know if this is right for you but I wonder if other methods for meeting new adults to interact with might help. What about dating? You might think you are not ready, but maybe you are. Your ex keeps sliding back into that role due to the long history...even if you have better boundaries and are more healthy now. Also, this is just in my experience - If I was ever gonna be friends with an ex, typically there was about a year where we barely saw each other and were not close before becoming friends again. That time and space was needed to grow out of the dysfunctional patterns and resentments of the old relationship.

I found myself being tugged back a few times, old fond feelings and hope that maybe things would be different somehow - but they never were really different, it just took me a few times to really see that though his words said different, he would have loved (was just waiting) to pick right back up where we were if I'd let him and enough time enjoying my own space and peace made me more and more protective of it - I was NOT going back to living with someone who wanted to throw poo on any situation just to control it. I love your argument with yourself - you wanted to make soap, you didn't want to disturb him, this is YOUR house.... darn right it is!

It sounds like the guy can be likeable sometimes, and I know you have feelings for him even though he doesnt treat you good, I understand that. He thinks he still has a chance with you WITHOUT changing. Maybe it would be good for HIM if you refused to see him. He may have to stop and THINK. It sounds like a simple concept and it is, but our emotions get in the way sometimes. Thinking of you and wishing you good Ah-Ha moments everyday when needed. linsc 

Melly you are growing away from that type of person.

One day you will have had enough. It makes me smile
For you to be interacting and enjoying healthy normal
People again. There are tons of them if you are in a healthy
Environment, Like you at school. Enjoy good people!

Now when i am near negative or bad people i get all
Jittery. I can not run away fast enough They do nothing
For me in my healing journey. They try to take it away.

4myboys, sounds like it may not have "felt" good, but I'm hearing you actually "did" very good. Acting differently is hard and it's even harder if you beat yourself up while doing it. Huge progress to even be at the point where you are living separately. It's not unreasonable to take some time to just detach a bit and wait and see if him being on his own sparks any change. You need not obsess over it, and like you said, expectations are best to be low. Be kind to yourself. Nobody wants to scrap a marriage without making their best effort. Women are much more in tune with wanting their kids to have their dad around and active in their life and sacrificing to make that happen. Women are socialized to suffer sometimes for the betterment of a union. These are negative societal pressures that still exist (at least in my opinion)...So again....you are being courageous to break these patterns in spite of him not changing. Affirm yourself.

Thanks Edna :) I wish it wasn't that way, but I think we are really only like 50 or 60 years since young girls were learning how to be "happy housewives" in home ec class. *shudder* Those themes still infiltrate relationships and may keep women trapped in bad relationships. I observe many women come here and say their AH is a "great father" and "great provider" but just drinks too much and is horribly nasty to them. That's not a great provider or a great father either. A great provider would also provide stability, love, respect. A great father would model how to treat a woman.

Pink, I try m hardest every day to be positive and read the steps and go to f2fs. I think I am getting overwhelmed! I feel I am reaching for something that is out of my grasp. I dont know how to control my emotions, they are like a tornado right now spinning around and destroying everything in its path. Especially when my ah reaches out to me when he's sober! I have managed to handle the drunk husband for many years. I don't expect much from him like I said before. But is a little but of understanding from him to much to ask for from an alcoholic? How long do I have to feel guilty and wrong for wanting a better life? One day at a time, accepting,understanding and letting go????? I am having a hard time with these! I feel like I am losing my mind!

4mb, for me those things seem to have been all connected. Wanting understanding and validation from my A, and feeling guilty and wrong for wanting better. They eased through working the steps and value and validate myself. It takes time, obviously for me it's still an early work in progress!
It still astounds me when he shows me how very little concern he has for my needs, wants or well-being. This last incident left me shaking my head in amazement as he explained to me that it's very important for him to pay his brother back (he owes him a few hundred dollars and his brother has no kids and is wealthy) while he owes me thousands and is still trying to borrow from me every single week! And when I told him to borrow it from someone else he went into a detailed and so sincere explanation of how he "doesnt want to borrow money from anyone, he doesn't want to be indebted to anyone ever again" and then in the same breath ask me to lend him even more money...as if I literally do not count as a person and thus borrowing money from me isn't the same as being "indebted". Mind boggling.

When he is nice now I can see how much of an effort it is, it's as if he is wearing a facade and it is exhausting for him; when he can finally get drunk ad abusive it seems to me that is his "relief", his reward for being nice to me for a few days is to then have impunity to get drunk and be horrible to me. I don't any longer see a "nice guy who has all of his efforts undone by that evil drink". I see someone who is addicted not just to the substance but the freedom it gives him to go on a rampage. That may not be true of other people but it is what I see in my A and in my biological father who is dreadfully similar. I think he's addicted to being the monster and alcohol gives him the perfect excuse. So when he is being super nice and treating me like a princess (which he does sometimes now that I have stopped living with him) I think he's just storing up points towards his next vile bender. That's not to say I think he likes who he is, I can't begi to know hw he feels about it. But I do see that he's as addicted to his drunk behaviour as he is to the drink.

So for me, spending time with him when he is being nice and 'reaching out" is more dangerous than being around him when he is being vile. It messes with my head and I don't think there is a genuine desire on his behalf to make things better. I have the sense that he is just "prepping me" for his next bender, and keeping me on the hook as his provider.
In our current situation I rent a house and am responsible for a child. He lives with his brother and has no real expenses and yet still tries to borrow from me, wants to come over and eats my food, and has just told me (not asked, but told me) that he thinks he is going to get all of his stuff out of storage and put it in my garage. He also expects not to have to pay for the privelige but he will reward me by "having more money so he won't have to borrow from me as much". Goodness. How could I refuse such a great offer? I do not believe he heard my no, and I don't know how I will respond when he inevitably turns up here with is brother and a houseload of his old junk expecting to fill my garage with it. It's not going to be pretty. I suppose I can begin by telling his brother not to hire a trailer or come here with A's stuff because I will not store it. He also keeps trying to sell me on the idea by telling me I can use some of the junk...like an old freezer that was full of rotting food when he put it into storage 6 years ago, "it will just need a wipe out". A bookshelf he thinks I can use in my bedroom. Always trying to inch his way in, insert himself into my home and life. NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!

Lets not even mention ta last time he stayed over, I woke up to him trying to very quietly get it on with me in my sleep (since I have no interest in being intimate and haven't for a long time). I have told him absolutely and without any doubt that it horrifies and disgusts me when he does that and he may not violate me when I am sleeping. He used to when we drank together and he found it acceptable to do this when I had passed out. Out came the whiney little boy "well what a I supposed to do, you won't let me touch you". It's just all about what he can take, no matter how good his "nice guy" act is. He has no actual regard for me as a human being. He seems to consider himself entitled to my entire being; nothing is off limits.

It's amazing to me, what i used to tolerate in the name of feeling "wanted". It horrifies me more and more each time I see him and am reminded. Sorry if this is a bit of a rant, I am still very angry about what happened last time. When I woke up to find him undressing me I ordered him to get his things and get out, that i would never trust him enough to sleep in the same place as him again. Then I went through a couple of days of being miserable, second guessing myself, feeling guilty for being angry with him, feeling guilty for "denying him". I used to go through that on a weekly basis when we lived together; I would snap and get angry and then be filed with guilt and fear. It's terrible, traumatic even. I can't allow myself to believe the nice guy act again, it's just (for me) a big fat load of denial. I suppose part of me wanted to believe that by moving out alone it might inspire some kind of change in him, maybe I was still clinging to a little hope that involved action by him. I wasn't aware of it but I think it was still there. Well he has visited me in my new home twice now and all I see is that he is worse than ever and I can't stand to be around it. Or maybe he's not worse and i just can't tolerate it any more. I don't know but I don't enjoy his visits and I need to get real about breaking contact now. It's not good for anyone.

-- Edited by missmeliss on Sunday 5th of April 2015 02:35:05 PM

-- Edited by missmeliss on Sunday 5th of April 2015 02:59:43 PM

First let me say happy Easter! I do know the feeling. When I dropped off our son with ah on Saturday we sat outside and talked. He told me how much he loved me and missed me and he doesn't want a divorce and why am I pushing him away. He always ask me if I love him!! That we should be working through this together. I'm his wife and we shouldn't be separated! This is driving me insane! I do love him. I want the best for him. But when I ask him to give my time and let me work on myself. He gets mad. I told him I can't take the drinking anymore. I have had enough. He needs to some changing too. I'm terrified of living with him again because deep down I know things will not change. He already told me he's not gonna quit but he will try to cut down???? I don't believe him! He hasn't shown any improvement at all.
Anyhow that was Saturday. Today I told him I wanted to talk to him about some things and I would come over after work. So I called him when I got off he didn't answer. We played phone tag for a bit. He was just acting weird. So I checked the bank account and saw the all the liquor store transactions for today!!!! Figures.. So I changed my plans. I can't deal with drunk ah. He knows this. Of course here comes the carp. "There you go picking your family over me. I'm done with you. Give me a divorce. I don't want anything to do with you"!!!! I didn't answer his calls or texts. So of course he gets nastier. Send ing texts messages real nasty ones. Accusing me of being with another man and just mean!
All I ask is he give me space so I can heal and take care of myself. I didn't ask for a divorce. And it bothers me that has no concern of my well being. I am a wreck and I need help and i am getting it. Trying my hardest to take care if myself. Hoping that this will change my view of him. So I am not angry and bitter or sad. I want to be able to use the tools in alanon to have a better life. Not just for him but for me and my children. I am seeing his true colors. His selfishness and how he worries about him and not what he's done. How he wants me to just accept and deal with all the crap! I can't do it anymore. I block his number and try to not have contact with him. It is hard because of the kids and we do have finances together.
I don't mind the rants. They are not rants at all. They make me feel much better because I can relate. Knowing I am not alone is helping me with this journey. All the experiences of others and their actions help me handle my situations in a different way than I am used to.