The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
My husband and I had a talk tonight and as usual he threw all blame to me.
He is back at his Mothers. I have tried being compassionate, I have tried to giv ehim leeway and be understanding. I have tried to not get angry when he is always over doing things at her house. I understand that she needs the help right now, but I do have an objection when he comes home and he is drunk.
The other morning he went to run a few errands and didn't get back until after 2 in the afternoon and he had been drinking. His Mom said I had to be understanding that he was out at the cemetary and it was hard for him. I did understnad to some extent, but then he took off again driving around drunk and acting like a child, he was also nasty and started with the name calling and telling me I said things I didn't say, so I just told him not to bother coming home.
Tonight he was putting everything on me. Telling me that I had turned into Felix, getting very anal and putting things away as soon as he put them down. This is a man who always insisted I didn't clean enough, and after I clean, which I admitt is very often, will find the one thing I missed to complain about. He asked me to file things better, more like his Dad used to so he could find things. Well I did, everything is in a file drawer and in folders labeled, now he complains he doesn't know which file things are in.
He asked what the mechanic said about our daughters car, I told him and he got angry. He said I ouldn't listen to him when he said what was wrong, and insisted I think he can't do anything becasue he is just a stuipid drun. I don't want him touching any of the cars when he has been drinking. He might be right with what is wrong with them, but I am not willing to risk it. Sober, I trust his skills completely, but he lies so often about his drinking that I can't always be sure, unless he hasn't left my sight if he is sober or not. So most of the time, I opt for the mechanic.
My husband feels this is a put down. I pointed out that he has been drinking again almost constantly and driving and lying about it. His answer is "says you, maybe I have maybe I haven't." Then proceeded to tell me that I think I am perfect. I told him I don't, but that he is no longer even making an effort. He said he wants to but I won't let him.
He is not working and I am taking extra hours. So he has to get the little guys ready so I can pick them up on the bus, and then stay with the baby till I get back about forty minutes later, then we do it again in the afternoon. The little ones can ride with me, but it is winter and he isn't working, so I feel he should contribute by them staying with him so they don't have to go out on the bus in the bad weather. He says he like the meetings that are at 9Am 40 minutes away from our house and babysitting keeps him from making these meetings. There are many meetings closer to home and at other times. They would not get him out of babysitting.
It is hard for me to take a program seriously when he won't get a sponsor and continues to drink. The kids and I should be put out for him, and he is not really working a program anyway.
I told him with 7 kids in this house there has to be some order. I cannot work and take care of the kids if the house is a mess, and if I keep up with it, it is easier than letting it go until I have complete chaos. He answered me by telling me again that I was anal, and that he has tried and cannot seem to make me happy.
I asked him what he does and he says everything, but will not tell me what. He is a great cook, but I have to clean up, as he goes into the bedroom as soon as he fills his plate. He throws his laundry on the floor and has papers all over the room. When he does watch the boys he lets them do as they please and I walk into a trashed house.
I like to wake to a clean house, and after everyone else goes to bed, I make sure the dishwasher is filled and running and the sink is empty, and then I go room to room checking to see that the toys are put away, the rooms are straightened and wiped down and I kiss and tuck the blankets around each child as I pass through. Then I feed the dogs, cats, and rabbit and let the dogs out for the last time. He sees this as anal, I see it as necessary. He doesn't do it, he takes his dinner to our room and doesn't come back out, but he does yell, "Did someone take out the garbage? Did someone feed the animals?"
I know I can be anal. I cannot walk through a room without straightening up. On Sunday nights I put all the little guys clothes for the whole week in bins labeled with the day, so I do not have to worry about them in the morning. I have a child size caot rack that I put in the living room every night with the little guys jackets and back packs, packed and hung on it, and their mittens and hats in their sleeves and boots at the base of the coat rack. I put out the cereal bowls, cereal, spoons and cups for juice, on the table the night before. I also set up the coffee pot, a cup and travel mug for me and a cup of water in the microwave for my husbands tea, and lay out my clothes for morning. In the morning I pour my coffee and then I bring my husband a cup of tea while I get dressed.I then go and get my bus. My daughters help the little guys get dressed, and my older daughter drives her and my younger daughter to school. My husband has to make sure the little guys eat, and help get their coats on and bring them out to the bus when I beep.
This is a routine that works for me, it lets me get everyone out ontime, and I don't have to be overwhelmed in the morning. I do it for my peace of mind and so I am not over stressed. He is welcomed to help, but never does. He says he is a perfectionist, but that just means he is quick to say he could do better, we never see the proof.
He says I am impossible to make happy, that my standards are impossible and I am anal and bitchy. Also that I think I am perfect. I know I'm not perfect, I'm far from it, but in the yar he was gone, we found a way to make things work, a way I don't need to feel sick to my stomach and stressed out all the time. We follow a routine and keep things neat and organized. I would love to depend on him, but while he is drinking I can't and won't, not for anything important.
I am willing for the boys to ride with me, but I am not willing to take them out in the cold so he can pretend to go to a meeting and go hang out in his mothers garage.
Am I being too unbending? Am I too anal and am I asking too much? Am I putting him down by not havving him owrk on our cars while drinking?
Of course your not to anal, you seem to be doing everything you should be doing. I'll never understand why they have to blame the ones who care for them most and want the best for their behaviors. That all seems to just be a sickness in itself. I can't believe he won't help support his family, what is that all about? Is he maybe like my AH where maybe (I think) he may have just been overwhelmed being in a family situation and decided he doesn't want that anymore or what?
I can never believe that all our lives have come to this, dealing with someone's addictions. You almost wonder why alcohol just can't become illegal.
What does it take for them to just end the blame game?
Do you love your AH anymore? What do you want (besides him to stop drinking?) It's hard for us to know when we have so much to take care of and worry about, we don't seem to have time for ourselves.
I just want to give you a big hug, and tell you it's all gonna be ok. I don't think you are asking too much, in fact, you are doing everything with keeping your household running and kids well taken care of. I can relate to the cleanliness part, b/c although I'm not the neatest person in the world, I do like to have a clean space, helps me think better.
You're story sounds simliar to one my sister told me about her and her husband. He would complain that she didn't do his laundry the "right" way. well, she stopped doing his laundry, and it piled up and piled up..lol. she had to let it go and let him take care of his own mess.
Anyway, I hope you're taking some time for yourself in that busy day of yours to just relax and unwind, if anyone deserves a day at the spa, it's you!
hi (((Jeannie))) I always like to read what's happening in your house. Are you trying to avoid his criticism? In our house, I used to listen to the criticism and shape my behavior to avoid it. If my a said I spend too much time with friends, I'd see them at lunch while I was working or call them when he wasn't around. Then he complained I looked to him for too much. (well he was right, but the point is still good) If he complained I talked to his dad too much, I would hand the phone to him right away. Now he says I'm too quick to get off the phone. I had to quit listening to the attempt to get the spotlight off his behavior. Now I'm practicing a deaf ear when I suspect a red herring. It's rarely about me anyway.
I encourage you to trust your instincts. you're doing a great job - and the junior coat tree sounds like a wonderful system. I surely hope you feel good about yourself when you finally go to sleep each night. take care --- Jill
Jeannie, I think you know the answer to your own question.... NO, you are not being too anal, on anything.... You are living with an active alcoholic, and both you and your A, are trying to make "sense out of nonsense". His mother sounds like a classic enabler, and many of his tactics appear to be right out of the "book"....
Just my opinion
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Hugs to you. I also don't know how you do it. 7 kids is overwhelming. The bin thing is a great idea (how many bins??).
Yes, you are trying to control something that can't be controlled. It's okay to call someone on lies. He wants to go to a 9am meeting but will go to his mom's and drink instead. It would be great if he went to the meeting. The more meetings the better for him, as many as he can get to. But it doesn't sound like he's sober. I'm wondering why he's in your house. Does he love the children?
Jeannie with the amount of children in your house you need to be organized. You are not being anal you are just creating order. Remember not to get caught up again in the triangle between him and his mother. She will always protect him and as loving and kind as you have been to her with her recent loss it does not mean she will not manuipulate the situation to her advantage. Go back to your basics, boundaries. Did the house run a lot smoother before he moved back in? If so what were the reasons why. Stay strong dont accept anything less this time around. Put your needs first. Luv Leo xxx
Oh, Jeannie, I wish I was as organized as you are and with 7 kids. Don't know how you do it all. No, you are not being anal, you are organized and keeping pease with your children by showing and teaching them to be organized.\
I cannot manage even my and my hubs stuff. I want so bad to be organzied but I'm not.
He is just calling you names to drag you down, that;s what alcohol does. Do not listen to him. You are doing well, you are taking care of the kids. That's all you can do is care for them and you.
He has to do his part. IMHO, if he really was getting help, he would go to which ever meeting he could, AFTER the children were taken care of, instead of being selfish. It's the alcohol.
Don't get me wrong, I am not blaming my Mother In Law, in fact I was just wondering if because it was his first visit out to the cemetary, I was being too unbending. I guess I already know that nothing is an excuse for bad behavior. She has alwasy been an enabler and I expect no less now. I don't even think she is doing that right now, she has barely gotten off the couch since my FIL passed away and does not really care about much, she is depressed and not feeling well. I don't think she either realizes or cares what my husband is doing right now. She just wants to be left alone.
As to why he was in the house. Before his Dad got hurt, my husband was in an IOP program. We had a lot of problems at that time. The people at the program told me themselves that he did not have to work if he didn't want to and that the children where my responsibility, he could only worry about himself. He was not working and was making no effort to do so, and was not collecting unemployment. Much as his Father and I disagreed on many things his Father was helping pay the bills here. As much as I was taking extra hours, I could not make enough to do it. November and December are slow months for school bus drivers with all the holidays.
The one thing his Father and I agreed on is that he must go to work to help support his children. He also had asked me to write the unemployment appeal, that my husband could not write it as effectively as I could and the money was needed. Him and I bargained, he helped me with the bills and I took care of the appeal which was won.
We had so many arguments during this time and what he was taking from the rehab, seemed to put the kids and I in worse shape. It was alwasy him and his parents against the kids and I. I did not know his Dad would die, when he got hurt I believed there would be a long recovery. The kids and I talked about it with my parents and decided to ask him to come home, that we would work out our problems as a family, his Mother had enough to deal with to get his father well. His dad was paying the copays for the rehab, and that stopped when he died. I do not make enough to cover an extra $160 a week in copays. My husband stopped going to the rehab.
He had a few slips but was doing okay for a while. Once the rehab stopped, he did look for work, and talked of getting another job. He was chipping in around here and was kind to me and loving to the kids. We did not tiptoe around him at all and did chip in with the help he gave his mother. Since he was here, she never asked for the unemployment money. We made updates and repairs on the house without her telling us not to. She has been very wrapped up in her own grief and not contributing to any trouble here. I doubt she is even aware he is drinking in her garage, she does not even go out the front door.
She even offered to pay for him to go to school for welding. He told her he would discuss it with me and I ended up finding out about it, when she asked me why I didn't agree with it. He never mentioned it and told her I didn't want him to go.
While I have been guilty in the past of name calling etc. Since he ahs been home, I have curbed my tounge. I know beyond a doubt that I have not called him anything or put him down in any way. A few weeks ago everything cahnged. he began to drink more and lie about it. He bagan disappearing over to his mothers constantly. He got nasty and belligerant and began calling me names and insisting he was drinking becasue of the things I said. I told him I said nothing and he would twist it, insisting I did. Then he would say "Oh you have never called me that?" I said we are not talking of the past, we are talking of now, then he would say okay well you where thinking it. I told him he does not know what I am thinking, and he said he knows. Any excuse, it didn't matter what I said or did, he was going to say I did something anyway.
He is angry at his Mother as well, insisting that she doesn't take his input only his brothers even though he is there more often. His brother has been helping his Mother sort through finances. His brother is sober and responsible and works. My husband wants to be counted and wants respect, but does nothing to earn it.
I do not beleive that any of this is my fault. But I do know that he has a hard time fitting back in here. The kids and I have a trust and a way of working together that he is not a part of. Their friends are alwasy here and they are good kids and we talk often. They come to me for advice anad are quick to offer help taking out the garbage or whatever needs doing. This gets him annoyed, he has tried to make a minimal effort and the kids or their friends don't buy it. The guys where sitting at the kitchen table one day and he started a conversation teasing about the size of private parts. The boys all looked uncomfortable and left the room. My son later said they felt he was being an idiot. My husband was insisting it was a guy thing, and he was being one of the guys, and I said he is not one of the guys he is a parent and the kids thought it innapropriate especially with me in the room. He didn't get it.
He also had a habit of walking around the house in the evening with a towel around his waist. This made the girls uncomfortable and their friends commented on it, doesn't your dad have any clothes? When he came home he refrained form doing this, and started wearing pajama pants or shorts around the house. The past few weeks the towel has been back with him saying "This is my house and I will wear what I want, if they don't like it they can leave."
My Dad said that it is possible that he had a lot of guilt issues after his dad dies, and was trying to do the right things and live up to his fathers image. He said being unable to do that right away, he stopped and is back to doing whatever he wants. Even doing things that would anger his Dad, almost as a punishment for leaving.
He is being kind but feels that my husband is too messed up for anyone to help including himslef. He says Jeannie he is a lazy man, that has alwasy depended on his father. he says that at least while his father was alive he tried to reach at least a minimum standard, lije a child not wanting to completely dissapoint him. He says with him gone, teh guilt of bleeding the man dry and alwasy letting him down, on top of the laziness and immaturity are sucking him in.
He can't seek approval from his Mother as she is in her own world, she alwasy condoned what he did, but now does not really care. It seems as if she exists waitng to join his Dad.
My dad feels that the only lifeline the kids and I had however small it was, is gone, and he feels I should seek legal help immidiatly. He thinks things are going to get much worse, with him gone this time then they have ever been.
Sorry I rambled on so long, I was just explaining things.
Jeannie, I have come to believe that your mom-in-law is your worst enemy. She is also the worst enemy of your A husband. The woman has a way of making you doubt your self worth, and if there ever was anything counterproductive, that's it!! Stick to your beliefs; they are sound and true. Please do not let her opinion cause you to deviate from your path. You are doing a bang-up job with your kids and handling your affairs. I know it cannot be easy. But allowing mom-in-law the privilege of crowding your mind with negative thoughts serves only to satisfactorily perpetuate her manipulation with her not-too-smart ideas.
I send you best wishes and love. Diva
__________________
"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Oh Jeannie, you are doing a wonderful job!! Don't you ever doubt it!!! You have great kids who trust and respect you, and a lot of friends here that do too!
My personal belief, as I have said many times, through my own experiences, is that, deep down inside, he knows you are doing a beyond wonderful job, and sub-consiously (sp?) , he feels you are doing so much better than he is, so runs you down to make himself look better. He is living in a dream world, as many A's do.
You are a remarkable person, and don't you forget it!! Take care of you and those great children! Lots of Love and TLC to you.
Being an organized person myself, I understand where you are coming from - I can't stand to get up to a messy house, and to have disorganization and chaos in the mornings.
I also agree with the others - your husband is doing the standard A thing of always raising the bar, and changing the rules - he asks for something, and then when you do it, he complains about some aspect of it, or becasue you are not doing something else. Only way of dealing with this is to not base your actions on what he asks for, but on what your own best judgement shows you to be best - what is best for you and the kids, and what is most reasonable.
I wonder, though, if there is maybe some martyrdom built into what you do - if in some way you are trying to send a "See how good I am, see how lazy you are" message. If I were you, I would spend a week or so really examining my motives for every action - do I do this particular thing because it works well for my family, or do I do it because it makes me feel like I am in control, or like I am indispensible, or.... I know that I have a tendency to do things the hard way - it makes me feel better about myself. it props of my image of myself as 'wonderful'. I suspect that you might do a little of that too, and it wouldn't hurt to take an honest look. I hope you understand that I am not saying this in any 'blaming' way, but because I recognize myself so much in what you say, and have found that there is some unhealthiness in my own actions. I have found that most of my oraganizing ways are good and healthy, but they had some nasty spots, which I am doing my best to dig out. You may find the same.
my A has similar issues with his mother. The father died and they all had to rally round to help him through the hospice. The A's mother insisted that he come over to help. When he was sick last year and could not get out of bed she did zero but be in denial. They have a complicated, totally enmeshed relationship. His brother who lives with the mother is always loaded and that is his entire life getting loaded and feeling trapped.
I have spent a lot of time resenting and even hating his mother. I have spent a lot of time really wondering what kind of a mother lets her child be sick and offer nothing. At the same time it does not do me much good to wonder what that woman is made of. She is older now and has had her issues. She will have to retire soon she is in her 70's and I sure as hell will not be doing anything to assist her if she is ever sick. I am through being the martyr. She has a million and one friends so she claims so I will not be there because she was not there when I was stuck with the A in bed with no money and no food. That kind of bitter resentment is very hard to neutralize and I think it is at the bedrock of many of our issues with the A's their entire family is so enmeshed and so difficult to deal with.
I know looking ahead with the A the picture is not pretty, an aging mother who thinks nothing of foisting her entitlement on him. She once insisted we take 3 weeks off to go and see some land she bought. She has insisted before that he build her a house there which is 6 hours away from where he lives. A brother whose substance abuse has already cost him his spleen who continues to use actively and lie about it. He has lived with the A in the past and caused lots of drama and resentment. They were once very close. They merge together when it comes to doing substances and he goes there to buy them.
The A's own health is not good and he bitterly resents that he has anything wrong with him. I think he believes he was superman.
I have my own health issues which the A is not sympathetic to. When I had status asthmaticus which meant I was literally not able to breathe he told me he bitterly resented waiting in the waiting room that he was bored there and going home. When I was in the hospital he did not even bother to call to see how I was. I was up all night on breathing treatments. He speaks to people he meets once better than he spoke to me that night. He felt I was depriving hm of something by being sick. I already dealt with that kind of bitter resentment with my family of origin why would I go through it again?
I think it is tremendously difficult to detach when someone who you live with and depend on to a certain extent is doing incredibly destructive stuff and is involved in a family which is enmeshed. At the same time given the toxicity of resentments and the frustration that goes along with dealing with a situation like that what else is there to do? Maresie.
