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The weekend is coming up, which means I will be going to my boyfriends'. He had recently quit drinking at the insistance of his father, whom he lives with. His father goes away sometimes on weekends and I stay at my bf's. Now that his father is away, I know he will want to get a bottle of wine at least one night. He usually semi-asks. He says, "I really want wine. Do you want some? Would you mind?" I don't know how to answer this. I mean, I really enjoy wine, but I am fine with or without it. I am sure he would get it anyway even if I don't have any, cause I have tried that. Is saying, "I wish you wouldn't" interfering? I don't know which is more enabling, to say "do whatever you want" or "please don't". I hate the fact that when it's there, I want to drink it too, because I enjoy it. But I enjoy a glass or two. He could go through two bottles himself. I used to drink more so there was less for him to drink, but we all know that doesn't work. Anyone have any experience or advice?
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**Everyone is doing the best they can from day to day**
In Courage to Change on enabling it says "Am I doing what is best for me? Do I resent what I am doing? If so , is it really a loving choice?" "I must learn to give those I love the right to make their own mistakes and recognise them as theirs alone." "When I change my behavior, the behavior of those around me may also change, but there is no guarantee that it will change to my liking." "Today I am learning to make choices because they are good for me, not because of the effects they MIGHT have on others."
When I don't know what to do I read the literature and try to make the best choice for me.
All of this gets so touchy. Answers that really aren't answers. Doing, "what's right for me," but keeping in mind he has the right to make his mistakes. Slogan after slogan which add up to letting him have his way, lest, God forbid, we "say it mean," while we attempt to live with addiction in a serene way. Phooooey!
I say if you do not wish for him to drink in your presence, by all means, say so! If he needs to drink, he can do it while you are not there. Stick to your guns my dear. He may have the right to drink, but you also have the right to keep it away from you. It's a two-way street. I believe that AlAnon tenets have their good points, and the slogan which means something to me is, "Take what you like and leave the rest."
With best wishes and great caring, Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I noticed a post from you regarding this a day or so ago and wanted to respond,but couldn't find the words. I still can't, but still felt I was wanting to respond.
I never had any literature or Alanon here(I live in Turkey) so had nobody to bring this subject up with.Like you,I truly didn't know how to handle this.
Sadly I don't have any more idea now than I did then.My A used to go out and bring beer for himself and wine for me,whether I wanted it or not.I guessed after a time that he felt less guilt if he showed that he was thinking of me,whilst satisfying his own need for the stuff. Like you,I could take it or leave it.After a time I found that if I didn't drink it,he would finish all his beer then start on the wine.I soon began to drink the wine purely to prevent him from drinking so much. This inevitably led to him running out sooner than he anticipated and picking up the phone to order more to be delivered,leaving me to pay for it!! And I would drink more than I wanted in the vain hope that it would be less for him.I didn't enjoy the headaches !!! Yes...I had now been sucked into the insanity of it all. It wasn't long before I had to go to the shop and tell them that if he oredered alcohol,not to bring it because I wouldn't be paying for it. That went down really well and when they continued to send it up,I used to get to the door first and send them away.Next up was fighting with me on the doorstop for humiliating him by refusing to pay for it,and grabbing his coat to go out and search for someone else who would give it on credit!!He always managed to get it,and we always ended up in an argument because I always refused to pay for it. That led to constant phone calls and creditors banging on the door to demand their money,leaving me to deal with it while he was passed out somewhere.It was downward spiral because he always outsmarted me,and I was worn to a frazzle and constantly worrying about it.
The romantic meals out we used to enjoy were,by now,a distant memory because I couldn't relax enough to enjoy a meal out,knowing that he would be ordering as much booze as he could to pass out,and causing complete mayhem in any restaurant. I truly didn't ever want to go out anymore,I couldn't handle the outcome.
After his first time with AA he stopped ordering drink to be delivered to the house,but every market I went to for groceries were demanding payment for alcohol he had obtained on credit. How mad is this??? I ended up visiting EVERY market he could get drink from and point blank telling them if he came in with money in his pocket,they were at liberty to serve him....but if he asked for credit...I REFUSE to be held responsible.And I never paid anyone who demanded money from me to settle his debit.
If we went out anywhere,I always ordered cola for myself and he would get angry and reorder alcohol for me....I can't tell you how many times I left it on the table untouched.Or how many times I just got up and left.Of course,nothing worked.I would then get a row when he got home drunk and I had humiliated him by leaving alone!!
I used to really enjoy going out for a nice meal and a good bottle of wine.By now I hated it!!! But even saying that,I can't tell you how many times I have longed for the joy of a nice meal out with a bottle of nice wine. I found that if he did ask "shall I buy a bottle or two?" whatever response I gave was the wrong one!!! Believe me I tried "as you wish" "I'm not really interested to drink" " I'd rather you didn't" you name it,I tried it. I learned that whatever I said,he was going to do it anyway.I just didn't drink at all!!!
paintthinner.. Diva is correct in saying our slogans are sometimes a bit vague, but they do leave the choices to us and what works for us. You perhaps should decide what your boundaries are and stay firm in them. If you don't want to be around when he drinks, don't. When he says "do you mind"? Be honest. "I" would say, Yes, I really do mind. I don't enjoy you when you drink. Then, if he chose to drink, I'd leave and say "See ya next time". Not mean, not giving him an ultimatum, just simply protecting yourself.
It took me a while to sort out if I was trying to control a situation, but then I thought B.S.!! Why am I sitting here with him why he gets sloshed when I hate it ? Why hurt myself? Why be miserable?
You have to decide what is best for you, I just am giving you my experience with the disease and letting you know that you do have options.
Take care Christy
-- Edited by Christy at 12:55, 2006-02-24
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
I find that I am sometimes resentful of my husband. I don't hardly ever drink myself, but would like to have a drink occassionally when we are out for dinner, but feel I can't. I can't drink at all because if I order a drink it's as if he sees it as permission to drink himself. Then I got to thinking...why am I resentful of this? I don't normally drink anyway so why would it upset me not to? I guess once in a while it's nice to have a drink or two and relax. I realized that I was using alcohol to relax or cope just as he uses his drug of choice. THey are two separate things since I am able to moderate and have a drink once or twice a year and he can't stop at that. But the reason behind the drinking is the smae isn't it?
"Today I am learning to make choices because they are good for me, not because of the effects they MIGHT have on others."
I don't find this vague, or an "answer that isn't really an answer" at all, myself. Some of us can't stand to be in the same room with our A's when they are drinking, even if they are behaving fine, otherwise. If that is you, then tell him the truth - you don't want to be with him if there is drinking going on. Others don't really mind, as long as there is no bad behaviour accompanying the drinking - I was like this, when my husband was active. Although he was a daily and steady drinker, he was often capable of pacing himself throughout the evening, and not getting drunk. I never cared that he was drinking, I just wanted him to treat me well. For me, it was not whether or not he took a drink, but how he acted when drunk, that made the difference. If that is you, then tell him the truth - you wouldn't mind a glass of wine, but if he starts to act like a jerk, you're outta there.
My husband has been sober three years now. We don't keep alcohol in the house, because that to me seems to be pushing it, like keeping a freezer full of ice cream when someone in the houes is on a diet. However, if I want a drink when we are out, I order one. When my sister comes for the weekend, she likes a beer, and so brings a six pack or a case with her. It sits in our fridge, and my husband is fine with it. It is not his business, nor under his control, what other people do or do not drink. It is his business what HE drinks. The same goes for you. If you want a drink, have one. If you can't stand to be in the same room with your A if there is alcohol around, tell him so. In this aspect, I agree with Diva - tell the truth and shame the Devil. Stop trying to manipulate him and the situation, just let yourself feel what you really DO feel, and then say it, out loud. There is no such thing as giving him permission to drink. He is an adult - he does not need your permission. In alanon, it is necessary to face facts - if he is active, he will drink, whether you do or not. If he is in recovery, he needs to find a way to deal with the reality that most people in the world drink, and get over himself. Most recovering A's have an answer to the question "Does it bother you if I have a drink?" They say "It would bother me if *I* had a drink, you do what you want."
Don't think it really matters if you drink or not. He will find a way if he wants with or without you. Understand about liking a couple of glasses of wine. The thing is with an A they can never get enough, and eventually life is hell.
Use to drink with my A many years ago. After kids I didn't want to party anymore and A never quit. That is when I realized what a problem he had.
Just do what is best for you because you can't do anything for them. The A will drink in front of you or behind u if he wants to drink.
For me on a hot summer day,,after gardenwork and yard work, I would sit and enjoy a beer. However, I did find out quickly that for my A it just opened the door to get drunk. Where as for me one or even 2 would be enough, for him he would get the taste of it then continue, and even leave seeking to drink with others who would company him. There is a saying for alcoholics,,,,,,,,,,,,One is too many , and a hundred isnt enough. Once again this points to the choice is yours, you do whatever you feel is right. gardenal
"Today I am learning to make choices because they are good for me, not because of the effects they MIGHT have on others."
Well you know I think it took me a long long long time to see with the A it was always about the alcohol. I used to wonder why he wanted to be at his family's for Christmas. One year I booked a hotel and was really excited to be away for Christmas (it was a fantasy of mine). Come Christmas morning he wakes up early and stipulates that we have to get back to his mother's. I put this all down to his abandoning me but it really was about his need to use. I think it took me years to see this. This past Christmas as normal he got loaded. I cooked myself a nice turkey dinner but I have to say being around someone who was loaded was no fun. So that is the last time i do that. So whatever happens it seems to me that I am affected by the A's need to be loaded as long as I make a choice about that.
I can make choices that are about me rather than about him because after all the A has proved to me over and over and over again that come the choice between me and alcohol and/or drugs. The alcohol wins hands down.
