Alcoholism is an incurable disease it can be arrested through abstinence but never cured.
Alanon Face to face meetings will help you get in touch with yourself again and give you tools
To live by in dealing with the disease.

My ah is dry and i still have plenty of trouble with him. Just stopping the drinking is not enough.
They need to work on themselves in aa, you alanon for yourself not him. Alanon is about you
And your recovery from living with the effects of the disease. We get as bad as they are but
In a different way.

Keep coming back! It is a program you need to learn, its about self care and self love. Handing
Your will over to a HP for love,support and guidance. It all takes time and fir you to take the focus
off The addict. He needs to deal with his own problems. You can not learn his lessons only your own.

Hugs, first off there are two separate issues going on from reading your post well there are more than that however the two that jumped out at me are the issues with the ADHD and then the drinking obviously. The only way to address the first issue is to get sober first .. I learned through my experience with my XAH that treating any kind of issues before sobriety happens is a bad bad deal .. he wound up hooked on script meds he was drinking as well to intensify the getting high feelings.

Personally, I have never been able to have a mutual relationship with an active addict of any kind. The disease is selfish, controlling, manipulating and pretty much consumes the person it has a hold of, so to me the statement of "throwing away a pretty incredible friendship .. etc" just doesn't fit in my mind. I had to stop a friendship, because I was pulled into some drama of the A's making and she was a recovering A who relapsed It had nothing to do with not loving or caring about her .. it had to do with the fact that at that moment I couldn't have her chaos in my life because she was actively drinking blaming me for her misfortune. Unfortunately, this person has not returned to the program and I continue to pray for her. It doesn't mean I don't care about her .. I can't sit by and watch someone throw away all of the hard work they have done to make a career for themselves .. it is really a sad situation.

For me that was detaching with love .. for her she was angry that I wouldn't accept responsibility for her actions and I held her accountable for behavior. She wound up calling me telling me she was having panic attacks and was scared .. well the reality was when I got there she was in the throws of a REALLY bad relapse and it was just a bad deal all the way around. I even called her sponsor because honestly I had never dealt with someone detoxing before, I betrayed her in her mind because I wasn't going to keep her secret That was what she was counting on .. I would do the codie thing and not say anything.

There is a reason that man is not allowed around his children and honestly you could be typing me as the ex-wife as I'm sure my XAH's current wife sees me the same way. Reality check .. she has NOT been through what the kids and have been through with him .. she gets the truth according to the XAH and trust me when I say it's so full of holes it's not even funny. We didn't have to go through a custody battle because honestly he would have been so buried in it .. he would have had to have supervised visits with the kids based upon two facts. There was a horrible drunk visitation that the kids called me in tears to come and get them .. the second was he was admitted to a psych ward which apparently is referred to by the new wife as "his dark period" ... LOL .. well honey good luck with that. I only laugh because how I even found out about what was going on was a God thing. She probably doesn't hate you .. she probably feels really sorry for you I certainly feel sorry for the new wife in this case. She knows her truth with him and has been through the wringer with him and I can tell you two things that any man I go out with I will be checking and watching .. how he treats his former family, does he stick to his visitation, is he kind to the ex and so on, and is he current on his child support. Two things going on right there .. if he is not doing either trust me he will do those things to you as well. So those are big gigantic red flags going on.

Detaching with love to me is allowing the consequences to fall where they will .. in my case he has a good job .. if he doesn't follow the court order I let the state deal with him. I will neither prevent a crisis or create one. He has his own karma with the kids some of the texts he sends he digs his own holes with the kids. My kids haven't seen their dad since 12/24 honestly that is on him until 4 weeks ago when he did try and it didn't workout .. calling the kids the night before visitation expecting them to hold their plans .. no .. we don't do that and there is a clause in the parenting agreement that allows our children to dictate visitation. I can't tell you how shocked law enforcement is over that one and I have been asked many questions as to what I have been able to do to protect the kids from his craziness. At least they are not forced to go if they don't feel safe. They do not feel safe emotionally or mentally.

This woman he married made the statement to me "I'm not the enemy here" and honestly I laughed .. honey you are my best financial friend because as long as he's married to you .. I get paid and that's a good thing. He will at least for now maintain a job. So no you are not my enemy you are a financial ally .. don't know how she felt about that .. LOL .. don't care either .. she can have his debt, his drinking and all of the trouble that goes with it. She is so unaware of the debt it is about stupid.

It is easy to tell someone they are cherished and loved .. how does he show you this? By starting fights, being an out of control drunk? In what way is that showing someone that they are loved? I'm not saying stay .. I'm not saying go .. I am saying if coming home to a place where I have to walk on eggshells to be sure to keep the peace .. that is not my idea of home and heaven. That is my idea of dysfunction. So maybe this is an opportunity to look at the words vs the actions. Alanon, MIP and AA (I attend opens, I'm not an alcoholic) .. these places I learned to listen with my eyes and leave my ears out of it all. Being able to take the focus on what was going to make him better, or make things easier for him, I started looking at what was in my own best interests and moving from there .. in my case mine moved on and found another enabler. It grants me peace that he will leave me alone. I'm way ok with that too. I leave him to his HP and let them sort things out .. I don't participate in fantasies. Especially when it comes to people who are already in an altered state of mind.

These are all things I'm working out through the self work I do through Alanon. I don't worry about what other people think .. everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions .. my focus is what is in my best interest that is not fear based about money, relationships and so on. Again those are MY answers meant for me. When I ask for advice I'm giving away my own power in terms of if it doesn't workout then I get to say it's blah blah's fault for telling me wrong.

The 12 steps are about learning to deal with me .. the 12 traditions are about me dealing with others and I am grateful for the program in that regard. I did not play well with others at all when I first got here and I'm still learning that's the beauty .. I don't have to have all the answers today .. it's a one day at a time program.

I do know what is and is not ok for me just for today.

Hugs and best of luck :)

For me, a boundary isn't something I expect someone else to not do, its what "I" will do when faced with "this" {behavior}. I have to be ready to take the steps outlined in the boundary. It is up to me to identify beforehand what I consider unacceptable behavior and have a plan in place for what I will do in the face of it.

one thing alanon has taught me through the years is that there is no one right or wrong good or bad there is experience only that sometimes gives others strength & hope .. in alanon, there are no professionals but since we can only know what we experience as human beings, there are lots of experts for having lived with alcoholism first hand ..

In my experience only, alanon is a spiritual program .. (not religious) .. like with alcoholism and layers of onions .. there are many layers of both alcoholism & recovery .. I wouldn't be quick today to diagnose me or anyone else .. alcoholism many times can be perceived as something else but everything you are describing ? in my esh only, these are absolutely some of the very common problems of living with the disease of alcoholism .. not just the 'drinking disease but the 'thinking disease as well .. had been through similar for 13 years .. I'm glad you are going to alanon .. the fellowship is a We program and going consistently sharing with others will bring the solutions that are right for you .. have found the answer seems to be the same for all of us .. (meetings, sharing, literature, sponsor) .. solutions different for each of us ..

when it comes to the overly controlling borderline x wife .. (I type this with no judgments on your situation, you the husband Or the wife) .. there is a saying in alanon .. if you want to know who the alcoholic is, check out the spouse .. we usually end up crazier than them; sicker .. we end up with more problems because we are the ones who are angrier, more obsessive, more desperate to fix and escape the insanity .. while they ? are self medicating .. numbing .. I can't speak for another except to say this is a Family disease and comes out More when the family comes Together .. this Includes spouses and their Xs .. Step 1 .. we Admitted we are powerless over alcohol and that our lives (feelings, thinking, relationships, resentments) have become Unmanageable .. the Emotional chaos .. there's a possibility that what you are seeing is the Unhealed resentments of having lived with the alcoholic . (your alcoholic now) ..

I wish you the best of luck with the program .. the Love of the fellowship is the healer .. Serenity your way !

A word of hope with detachment with Love .. Love is an action (sometimes the love is for us ! .. being gentle with ourselves .. listening to us .. allowing ourselves to have Flexible boundaries that are not like walls which are stiff and rigid) .. doing what we need to keep Us emotionally and mentally safe ..

Thanks everyone! I truly appreciate finally not feeling so alone. You all have great advice, because you have lived through it. 

I literally had no roadmap other than what I was reading online with Al-Anon, and yes, I did make my first meeting on Monday, and even shared. I felt a little awkward being there, I think it has more to do with being public about this, no one has known about this for 2-1/2 years, it has been my deep dark secret. So I am sure that will go away the more I attend the meetings. But everything they were saying makes sense, and I felt very welcomed, so I will definitely be going back.

Question for those who attend Al-Anon: are all the meetings essentially the same format? Readings, then share? Are their meetings where there is back and forth feedback? I understand the power of sharing your story, but I would like feedback as to how I am dealing with things too. 

Truth brings up a good point about violence when drinking. I somehow feel he is using that to intimidate me when he is drinking and I am withdrawing. Because I tend to try and calm him down, as my name is on the lease and I am responsible for damages, also he is so loud that I feel like our apartment neighbors will call the police as it does sound like he is beating me. But I am now at the point where I don't even care, maybe having the police here will be a wakeup call. I was worried because a disturbance call will be a part of his permanent record and could come up in his divorce. But, honestly, maybe it should. I don't fear he will hurt me, as his target is typically not me, but he did say, "Don't fu%&*ing cross me, you cross me, and you are dead to me." So that was a little alarming, as he has not said things like that to me before. 

Mirandac thanks for your insights into Al-Anon, I totally agree, I don't feel well and need my own recovery, and I need to understand alcoholism is incurable, that is a tough pill to swallow as it has many implications for my life. 

SerenityRUS thank you for taking the time for a detailed response. You bring up some good points, dealing with ADHD should be after he is sober. He does take Adderall and actually does not abuse it, infact he takes 1/2 the dose morning and night than what is prescribed. Also when you said that you don't have a mutual relationship with any addict, than resonated with me. I do feel like our relationship is a pretty lopsided, as I am the more of the support person, and it is rather exhausting. When he is sober, which can be as long as a 2 day stretch, he is very sweet, funny and we get along great. Regarding the ex-wife, there is a long history, beyond him, of people totally not getting along with her, she has even kept his kids from his extended family, makes excuses, etc, they haven't seen them in over a year and are looking into grandparent rights, etc. So it is likely I am not too delusional on that, but I do hear what you are saying and I have put myself in her shoes and she probably does not like me or trusts me with her children because how could anyone in their right mind love such a dysfunctional person, her ex-husband. She has told her 7 year old daughter not to sit with me, talk to me, etc. In the divorce proceedings, she called me an addict, but of course could not prove it, so it went nowhere. So she is fairly dysfunctional in her own right. He was overpaying child support by $2K/month for about 3 years, when they were separated, and not legally separated, he was never mandated to pay any child support by any court, he felt intense guilt from her that he could not keep her and the kids in her Lincoln Navigator and expensive home in Santa Barbara, CA, she was not working at the time either and he was living with his parents and sold his car. She has major entitlement issues and is classic borderline (I could go on and on as to why-several very obvious signs, even her attorney gave up on her). She has issues, I have issues, and he has issues, that are more obvious. We are all screwed up, lol.

likemyheart Thank you, thank you for clarifying boundaries, as I was pretty certain, he would not uphold any boundary agreement we would come up when drunk. That makes much more sense.However, last night, I was enforcing my boundaries and was going to go leave to a movie, then he became very apologetic and started crying and telling me he was sorry and I kept telling him I was going to the movie and I had told him I needed my "me" time, but he kept telling me how much he loved me, etc, etc, and to stay and sit next to him, etc, etc. I ended up not going to the movie, but instead basically counseling him, and thinking we had a breakthrough, as he was finally admitting how badly he wanted to get sober and help others. But now tonight, he is gone, likely to the bar, was supposed to be home over 2 hours ago, and he is driving my car, our only car. I am feeling like a total fool. He seriously manipulated me, I don't even know who he is anymore, I cannot trust any part of him, he is more consumed by his addiction than I thought. Big wake up calls are starting to happen, thanks to finally seeking support for myself and learning more about an alcoholic's mind. I would usually freak out and text him and have a great deal of anxiety right about now, not doing that anymore, and instead I come here for support and clarity since it is 24/7. 

Mattie Your words are very sobering but needed. I was under the mindset that things will get better once he ...... and there is always a list of things. But I realized his drinking is not situational, it is a disease, there are no excuses, or even reasons. It took me a long time to realize this, but one day I asked him, because we had been having a great productive week, and I asked, why did you break down and drink this time as I couldn't figure out a reason for him, nor could he, and when he said he drank when he is super excited also, that was my first red flag / wake up call. That did not make any sense to me. 

It's been 2-1/2 years, the odds of relapse is very high, and that is just not tolerable to me anymore, I am thinking about my exit plan more and more. He wants to marry me, and I wanted to marry him, but told him he needs to be sober at least 6 months before I will move back to CA with him or get married. But now I am thinking it should be at least a year. He was gone for 3 weeks once, and I can honestly say, it was a relief, and I had not missed him as much as I thought I would. I finally had myself back, that was another wake up call of the stress he causes me. 

Thanks for your sobering words, means a lot to me. 

MeTwo2 As I do understand that his ex-wife is not well could be partially a result of him, she also very negatively impacted his life, it was a two way very toxic relationship. "Thinking disease", so true! Also, I am having a difficult time separating his disease from what i initially thought was a horrible character flaw. I am still working on that one. When you referred to them getting to numb and pass out, while we are left picking up the pieces, leading a more complicated and painful life, and dealing with life in a more responsible way, seriously bothers me. I am not sure I will ever be see him separate from his disease, but I am trying. It has become such a large part of him, the real person is slowly leaving more and more, and that is not the person I want to date and live with. 

pinkchip and you share sobering words as well, and I have a feeling your words are spot on in referring to the sweet and endearing personality. It is a bit of a roller coaster seeing a raging mean person turn into a super sweet and caring individual. I am feeling more and more manipulated and being taken advantage of. I tend to be an overly caring sweet person, and he knows this. I am a little concerned about his aggressive behavior, it makes me incredibly nervous, I end up shaking and my heart races and all I want to do is run away. I have had abusive, both physical and emotional, boyfriends before, no surprise there, lol, and so I seem to have more of a severe reaction to his violence, or maybe it's normal, not sure. But that too, I believe, is a way for him to manipulate me. 

Well better go, he just got home, it's 3 hours later than expected. This should be fun....

 

 

I hear you..sounds exhausting...sending you support...