The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I'm a civilian married to a 30-year Al Anon member who has me going (whom I let guilt me into going) to Chapter 9 meetings, as 12-step for couples. (Both of us agree that our marriage is fantastic.) During the share time I was silent for several weeks, began trying to speak and was immediately hit with severe, debilitating anxiety over doing so. My preferred course of action would be to continue attending, but not feel coerced or so anxious. My wife is not being helpful on either of these counts.
I was speaking with another civilian in the meeting who has been attending for a few years who described her actions as classically "al-anon-ic" behavior, namely, insisting that she was going to fix me her way. I have a well developed therapeutic and religious model for self improvement which conflicts with her 12 step model. I'm very happy with my world view. She has made clear that she regards my therapist as insufficiently challenging. We had discussed my not speaking, and I thought that was what she was suggesting, until she made the comment yesterday, "I don't think your not speaking is a long-term solution." This brought back all my fears from the very beginning that she wanted to fix me and was demanding my full participation in the program.
My fellow civilian further described the al-anon-ic as needing to fix people today to compensate for their failure to control the alcoholic in their lives. This is a totally new concept for me. All comments will be appreciated.
I don't understand why both of you agree that your marriage is fantastic and you're going to 12 step groups for couples? As a recovering person, I can only answer your question in this way: If I agreed to do something I really didn't want to do, I would spend my entire time balking at whatever was going on in the program no matter how good others thought it might be for me. I would enjoy watching everybody getting all upset because I wasn't going along with the program and I'd feel a bit superior to the others and might analyze them, too. I'm a firstborn who used to love it as a very young kid (5 to 7) when somebody who was compulsive or anxious wanted me to do something or told me not to do something. I'd giggle to myself when I observed their reactions but they'd never see that on my face. I didn't want to do what they wanted me to do and I didn't want to avoid doing what I wanted to do. When I got older, I started seeing the benefit to just saying "no." IF someone presses or pressures me for the reason and I don't like it or don't like being pushed, I'll say simply: "Because I don't want to." I don't like other people deciding what would be good for me and I really don't like letting them push me either. I'll simply grow more resistant and if pushed enough, I'll end the relationship.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 2nd of January 2015 04:29:22 PM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 2nd of January 2015 06:21:21 PM
Yes, I understand what your peer meant by "alanonic" behavior but it would be easier to label it what it really is which is controlling. It is also enmeshed because she is not letting you have your own interests and your own practices apart from her and she's not respecting your "separateness." If she is going to keep taking your inventory, it's also going to lead to hers being taken and that probably would not turn out well. So...If you want to do 12 steps, I'd find a group of your own that is appropriate. I have never seen dual recovery or couples 12 step work out. Literally never. 12 steps is something deeply personal and it's an individual journey. Just saying "12 steps for couples" is an oxymoron to me.
(((drywit)) If your partner has been attending alanon for 30 years her "alanonic" behavior should have been addressed long ago. I attended one Chapter 9 meeting and resolved never to return . It appeared to be looking for everyone to walk together as "clones" having the same thoughts and beliefs It did not feel like alanon to me.
If you are unable to share at this meeting there is nothing wrong with you!!! I attended alanon meetings for over a year without sharing, and it was OK. I suggest that you look into alanon beginner meetings to learn the basic principles and slogans of the program before you embark on Chapter 9. Please ake what you like an leave the rest.
PS I believe that alanonic behavior is : tryjng to control everyone, believing that we are always right, focusing on others without looking at ourselves. Gossiping, Blaming, judging and criticizing everyone to name just a few.
I'm not familiar with the term "Al-anon-ic" behavior, thanks for posting about it, I'm getting a little education from it.
I'm a little confused that your wife could coerce you into anything. What leverage does she have? If this is something you don't want to do, whether it is go to the meeting itself or just not talk until you are ready, that is entirely up to you, unless you are giving away power to your wife.
If she has been going to Al Anon for 30 years, I would think she would know some of the slogans. "Let go and let God" might be a good one here. Also, the notion of keeping one's side of the street clean, because you can't clean up the other side of the street.
In fact, I would say the best thing you could do is go to Al Anon meetings WITHOUT your wife for awhile. You could then take your time and compare to the religious model you have and make up your mind what you are interested in. You could also learn a few things about how we can only control ourselves and not others. And that it is important to exercise that control to help us with the "courage to change".
I'm also confused that you say "both of you agree your marriage is fantastic". Are you letting her tell you that the marriage is fantastic, and nodding your head in agreement with her? I hear huge amounts of resentment in your post, so how is it that you think the marriage is fantastic? For many years, I nodded my head in agreement with my wife that our marriage was crap, even though I didn't really agree with it. I was "coerced" into things I didn't really understand or want to do to try to make our marriage better. Once she got involved heavily in AA and I in Al Anon, we determined that she was running the show and I was letting her - I was too timid and low in confidence to voice my opinion, and she was too bold and low in confidence NOT to voice her opinion. Now if my wife wants me to do something I don't want to do, I recognize that doing that will cause resentment, and we talk together about how to address it. Sometimes she drops it, sometimes I agree to try, but we come out of it with agreement as to the strategy we will be taking. That is working much better for both of us.
Keep coming back here for experience strength, and hope, and/or go to an Al Anon meeting that has never seen your wife.
If she is going to keep taking your inventory, it's also going to lead to hers being taken and that probably would not turn out well. So...If you want to do 12 steps, I'd find a group of your own that is appropriate. I have never seen dual recovery or couples 12 step work out. Literally never. 12 steps is something deeply personal and it's an individual journey. Just saying "12 steps for couples" is an oxymoron to me.
I agree....I never did this but if it was presented to me, I would NOT do the "couple" thingy....recovery is so personal as pinkchip says, and also there are things you can open up to a sponsor that would not be appropriate opening up to the spouse.......we are separate entities from even our most intimate of relationships...to me my first healthy taste of an intimate/healthy relationship was with my sponsor....and i had a verbal sponsor and online sponsors, all of whom i could share with but if i were "sharing" recovery with a sig other??? nope that would not work....i would not be able to open up........find your own group, your own sponsor, work your steps with just you and sponsor......let spouse work their program.....this is a private, spiritual issue (alanon, et al) and i just don't see it working if couples do it together.............sending you support........
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Nope that sounds totally uncool to me. To each their own, re spiritual health. I do admit that I would love my loved ones to have my understandings but I accept that we all must walk our own paths which is actually part of the beauty of alanon. Its a gentle strength...not like the zealous religious background I sort of come from. So. In support to you drywit44 I think you have a right to say no. Without feeling bad about it. All the best.
"CHAPTER 9 COUPLES IN RECOVERY ANONYMOUS is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength, and hope as couples that they may solve their common problems and help bring harmony to relationships in recovery from addiction and substance abuse.
Our group name comes from chapter nine of the A.A. Big Book, which suggests that couples meet upon the common ground of tolerance, understanding, and love. Ours is a Twelve Step program that partners work together. This is not group therapy, nor is it a place for crosstalk or taking a partners inventory. We provide a supportive atmosphere for sharing, listening, and identifying with others who are dealing with relationship problems similar to our own.
Our meetings are led by a chair couple, partners in Twelve Step recovery. Couples, as well as individuals in relationships, are welcome. The only requirements for membership are that the partners are in a committed relationship and that at least one partner is in another Twelve Step fellowship. "
*BACK TO MY TAKE: So....even if I didn't believe the whole thing was ridiculous, your wife is not abiding by the basic tenets of the program when she takes your inventory. This is the entire problem with the model...It may work if BOTH partners were in recovery for a long time, but when only ONE is in program and has a long time in, she/he will treat the other one like a newcomer (which you are in this situation) and he/she will automatically be in a sticky situation in terms of acting like your sponsor and 13th stepping you at the same time. I could only see this working for 2 people that already had well established programs and practices for respecting each other's programs.
Thanks to everyone for their input, especially that which proved challenging. Just some follow up notes: (1) I really do think my marriage is wonderful. I truly believe that my wife is a wonderful woman (notwithstanding her objectionable behavior) and has proven to be the biggest blessing that my HP has ever brought into my life. And I tell her this regularly. And that she is beautiful. Funny how she becomes more beautiful the more I tell her. (2) Her expressed desire for our going to Chapter 9 meetings is to obtain positive role models for behavior that each of us can use, as neither of our families of origin are helpful on that score. Trouble is, I don't hear people talking about what goes well, I have never heard a man say "Let me tell you how much I love my wife. Let me describe some of the ways that I show her that I love her." (3) Her other expressed purpose is for us to explore the social opportunities the meetings offer. It seems that half of the friends she introduces me to are people that she met in program over 30 years. So it seems natural to me that she wants something similar here. Trouble is, I have a mild social phobia, so telling me that I have to be social just kills me.
I've been in Al-Anon since 2/8/79 and from your post alone I would back away from any "FEAR" triggers. If it scares me...I ain't gonna go there just like I was taught when I was a kid. I assume you are adult male and can make up your own mind based upon the outcomes you desire. That's good enough for me. I had to learn that in (gulp) Al-Anon and today I am me and free to be me. I don't need you to be an Al-Anon member of my type or description to feel okay, or verified in my own recovery. We all have "our own"' programs and we work that...we ought not try to work someone else's or make judgments even on them. Al-Anon is about "As we understand it" ...often as individuals also. Your post makes me a bit anxious (my reaction) and I wanted to say...walk away from it...or...let them go. Just for me only. Keep coming back and listening. ((((hugs))))
My husband and I have been happily in program together for several years. It is deep honest sharing and takes our relationship to new levels the more we show each other our true selves. The foundation of the 12 step group allows unconditional lovery tolerance and acceptance like we had never been brave enough to experience before. First for our own self... then naturally as a couple we continue the practice.
Alanon in behavior is just normal human behavior amplified or done out of fear. Like all our character flaws or otherwise known as survival skills... we learn to see them as a way of surviving our fears... thank them and finally learn to let them go. Set them down with dignity or integrate them into our lives in a healthier more balanced way. Replacing fears with faith takes practice and support. As you likely know from your own life experience. .. a 12 step group is one of many wonderful opportunities for just these things. A practice playground for healing the soul and inner self.
Sounds like you are off to a bravery start... the courage is inspiring. I believe in you and all of us... because I believe in myself and a hp. I did come to believe. .. using the 12 steps. Best wishes.
