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Ok, so my A just hit a recovery button on me, and I don't have a sponser so I'd like to take a check here.
Cliff notes story on the background. NJ's new 'digital' license requires documentation for all name changes. Her naturalization papers were lost from storage at her sisters years ago. Now she needs this to document a name change and it's $200 of $250 to submit the application.
She asked for help in November, I said not with Christmas. She got a job and said she was working to contribute to Christmas, which she did. This coincidenatally occured when I would not give any money for alcohol anymore. She borrowed $60 to buy me a $360 birthday present (which I didn't want right now cause we are not well off and I caved on the loan too). She has since told he she'd split some costs and didn't but hey I put myself in that position.
Well now she is trying to get the money out of me. Guilt and manipulation runs rampant. It's my fault she doesn't have a license, I don't have an iota of love for her cause I won't give her the money. etc.
I've calmly explained that she has made her own economic decisions w/ her own money. As a matter of fact, after asking me for $250 and not getting it, she came home with cigarettes and booze about $80. She spent around $80 on Valentines Day on me.
Well here was the buzzword. "You're trying to control me by preventing me from getting my license" I honestly don't feel like I've been controlling her. She has made decisions on how to spend her money. I've told told her from get go that I didn't know if I'd have anything for it for awhile. It should be no surprise.
Am I controlling? Especially if I don't feel as if I have been? I feel like this is the natural consequences of her actions. I ask because I never thought I was before but recovery has taught me that I was sometimes. So I figure I'll get some feedback from you guys.
Bob
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You are a perfect child of God and God and I love you just the way you are! (added by me...in that special alanon way)
All I can offer is my own esh. The stuff with money, the merging, the demands, the manipulation, the buying gifts while at the same time demanding funds is and was all part of my enmeshment. The more I can separate out the stuff and resist the demands the better off I am. I don't think it resolves overnight. The A will make any issue he has mine. Any issue I have is mine alone.
:idea Motives , look at your motives for not helping her. Are you trying to teach her a lesson?make her pay for past mistakes? Or are you simply trying to allow her to grow up and handle her own stuff ? And how much of an incovience is her prestent state to you too.
I learned along time ago that when I try to teach somone a lesson. I am usually the one who learns the lesson.
I too have issues with money, my A makes more but spends it badly in my opinion. Which of course is my opinion and only my opinion. It is extremely hard to have him hand me his check so that I can take care of the bills, givng him what is left yet hold onto enough so that when he whines of spending it all (on who knows what since he can't remember) and the fact that I still have some there is something to give him again without taking it from mine. It's messed up. I have had to make the same type of speech many times about financial choices, and sometimes had to bend my own rules for various reasons. It's a very hard area to find comfortable solutions that do not cause resentments. I hope you are able to come to a peaceful one.
By the way circumatances with my vision make it unsafe for me to have a driver's license but that does not control me in any way. I can always get to where I need or want to go eventually
Unanswered A: She is an A...... sooooooo...... YES!
You've done nothing wrong at all Bob. She's blaming you for her situation, that she has put herself in. I don't see where it is ANY of your responsibility to pay for her papers. Remember the egg joke - there really is NO chance of ever making an active alcoholic happy.
Take care
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I liked what abbyal wrote about motives, good stuff... but for me, I also look at what my responsiblity is in the situation. I, personally, do not see it your fault that her papers are lost and she now has to pay this money to get it back, especially since she is working now. I see her buying expensive gifts for you as a way to gain your respect and love, but obviously she is not taking care of herself financially. I struggle with that myself...but I don't blame others for it. IT's my own doing and I need to take care of it. When I'm not sure what to do in a situation like that, I pray for clarity and try not to make a decision until my head's a bit clearer.
bob, i would take this as "emotional blackmail" the old "ur trying to control/manipulate me by____________________"
she made her own decisions--- all i see that U did was allow her to suffer her consequences of her actions...
NON recovery alkies and druggies are REAL good at this shit-- my daughter is a "champion" of this, but since recovery?? i don't buy into it-- now she is blackmailing me by not calling me-- i am working the program, and letting go--letting god--- anything outside of the circle i drew around my OWN feet is "none of my business"
hang in there "bumpster" U did NOTHING wrong, but take care of U and allow her to make her OWN life song-----good job!!! hugs/ rosie
Ah so familiar. The thing I have found with a's is that they have a tendencey to revert to a childlike state and want to be taken care of. When you don't, then they get mad. But she is an adult and needs to take care of herself financially. My a hasn't had a job in 2 years, but is furious that his parents will not pay $350 for him to turn his cell phone back on. To the rest of us, this doesn't make sense. It is her choice how to spend her money, and if that ends up with her not being able to drive, well then, that was her choice. Right now, she thinks she can just f**k up at will and you will be there to cover her. This is not letting her grow up. As hard as it sounds, the other thing is, by not ensuring that she does it herself, her role as an incompetant is reinforced. She has no ability to resolve it herself and it will forever be a failure in her book. But if she has to postpone it for a few weeks to save the money, then she can feel better about herself for being independant. Until then, there is always the bus.
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**Everyone is doing the best they can from day to day**
Did she look into getting a waiver from immigration for the fee to replace her papers? My son lost his certificate of citizenship and was able to get a waiver of the fee for lack of income.
There is a form that she would need to fill out.
Hope this helps. Oh, by the way it took immigration 6 months to replace son's paperwork so expect a long wait.
What I have always understood from you sharing about this is you are doing it as a natural consequence and not as a way to control. You seem to be doing the best you can and what seems right with your program. Personally, I never got any indication you were trying to teach her anything but only you can answer that one. Keep us posted on how this goes and what you end up figuring out about yourself. Wishing you all the best! cdb xoxoxoxoxoxo
My sweet friend... it is hard esp when the feeling is new, the tough love, the change in focus onto one's self, sounds to me like u are sinply trying to allow her to exp some of her own consequences.
I was skimmin the pamphlet Al-Anon is for Men ~ it saying things like: if u were a better provider, lover, parent, loved me more et cetera - hell - may I add, given me more space, less space, had blue eyes, had a flatter stomach, et cetera it is always something!
You are setting boundaries & sticking to them & from I know of u persoanlly are raising ur 3 kids on your own. Stick to ur guns, my brother. I'm still here, u have my #, if u need ur (old) temp sponsor, just give a holla, u know I love you!
-Kitty of Light
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
NO-I don't see u as being controlling. It's a clear attempt on your part to allow her the dignity of facing up to her own lack of financial control.
I have had SO many issues with my A regarding finances. He hasn't worked in 3 yrs yet has enjoyed a pretty good lifestyle by Turkish standards. He seems to think as he is the man of the house he has license to make financial decisions that affect me and no consequences for him.It's a fine line isn't it between allowing them to make their own mistakes...and watching them suffer the consequences of their bad decisions. Last year my A needed dental treatment and since it was something that a) would help boost his confidence and b) improve his chances of finding a job in the field he wanted.....I agreed to pay for it. He never kept the appointments and continued to complain about the state of his teeth. Used the excuse he was scared of the dentist and that's why he didn't go. In the end I agreed to go with him.After the first visit he refused to go back. I paid the bill and told him that his dental situation now was of his own choosing since I had done my best to alleviate his discomfort. I refused to give him any attention when he kept wailing how much his teeth were hurting,since in my view,it was self inflicted.Time moved on,we split up and he left me with an enormous bill for replacing half the house contents he sold when I had to go back to the uk.We got back together and he started complaining about his teeth again.I wasn't now in any financial position to help out and told him so. One night he was in agony and begged me to take him to the dentist. I did as he was obviously on discomfort.He had to go back a second time and said he was ok to go on his own this time.He was sober and attempting to take back some control in how he dealt with things and I was glad he was trying to overcome his fears and felt he could do this one on his own.When he got back,the tooth had been extracted and next day told me he had another appointment.He went again...returned and told me he was really excited to be getting his whole mouth done and sorted at last. I asked what he meant and he told me that the dentist was starting all the work he needed to put things right. My immediate thought was "hang on a second....who is paying for all this??" So i asked him if he had discussed this with the dentist and he replied"No-I thought you could do that!!" I had agreed to a dentist trip to sort out the immediate problem he was having now-NOT for him to assume he was getting the full works as we had discussed last year. Haven't resolved this one since I threw him out a few days ago!!!!
Likewise,my A saw nothing strange in taking money to pay a bill to save me from queing in the bank...and spending it on a bunch of flowers for me,then blowing the rest on beer!!! Then expecting me to be grateful for the flowers and to cough up again for the bill he hadn't paid? I soon (though not soon enough..LOL) learned that all the bills were paid by me and the rest I set up standing orders for. Accused me of being controlling and not trusting him!! Well,I guess I was being controlling.....but I saw it as controlling my own finances..not controlling him. He didn't see the analogy.And yup!!! I didn't trust him!
it is always something!
I soon (though not soon enough..LOL) learned that all the bills were paid by me and the rest I set up standing orders for. Accused me of being controlling and not trusting him!! Well,I guess I was being controlling.....but I saw it as controlling my own finances..not controlling him. He didn't see the analogy.And yup!!! I didn't trust him!