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Post Info TOPIC: 'Ex' lover still in the picture? Am I being unreasonable?


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'Ex' lover still in the picture? Am I being unreasonable?



Need some help sorting this out. As my ex wife and I are trying to figure out whether we can work things out, we are still living in the same house with our 2 kids. She has moved back to our bedroom a few months ago. A strange living arrangement, I know. (The buyers of our house backed out on the deal, so we stayed here.) I’m sober over 2 years and never wanted the divorce. She pushed the divorce through because while I was working on my own alcoholic/self esteem issues, I was not able to provide her with what ‘she needed’ soon enough in sobriety. I realized this as it was happening and tried to explain to her at the time that I wasn’t ready for certain things until I got my head screwed on a little straighter. I understood how messed up I was and that it would take some time. In the beginning, when I came home from the rehab, she developed this ‘friendship’ with a guy; a mutual friend of ours going through his own divorce. After a few months she was doing family stuff with this guy and our kids and his, most of it, I was excluded from. She said I made people feel uncomfortable around me. They would go over his house and spend time with the kids while I sat home alone. That did wonders for my self esteem. The two of them shared a condo for a week at the beach together with all the kids a year ago August. I was not invited and my kids were in tears when they left that I was not going. It was probably the worst week of my life, I probably would have taken my life if it weren’t for the daily support I had from my AA friends and my HP. As the divorce progressed she was spending more and more time with him, sleeping at his place without our kids. It was at this point I felt that there had been nothing I could do to save the marriage, It wouldn’t have mattered how 'perfect' I was, she would have found fault with me. The week after the divorce last August, they took the four kids on a cruise to Bermuda. By that time I had given up any hope of reconciliation and, although it hurt like hell, was doing a pretty good job accepting things and moving on.


Now she says she wants to see if it’s possible to get the old feelings for me back. She said that she realized that the relationship with the other guy would never go anywhere and she is ending it. She said she doesn’t hate me anymore, likes me as a friend, and enjoys my company now. There is just no physical attraction left on her part. She says she is not dating anyone while she is trying to work this out, but she still crosses paths with this guy; they have mutual friends she met through him who she still hangs out with, and sometimes he is at the same places. She said she saw him at McDonalds the other day and spoke to him. When asked, she told me that she still talks to him on the phone a few times a week. When I tell her how painful this still is to me she can’t understand. She said instead of me worrying about her talking to him, I should be thinking about what I did to force her into his arms. I never cheated on her, always provided for us financially, and was never violent through those bad times. I was a self-loathing active alcoholic who hated myself so much I was incapable of showing her how much I loved her. I did my best to make amends with my ninth step with her. About the other guy, she says it’s her business and that I shouldn’t tell her who her friends should be. I don’t think I am telling her that. We’re divorced, she is free to do what ever she wants. If she never wants to speak to me or see me again that is her right. If she wants to get married to this guy, I have nothing to say about it. But if she really wants to see if we can work things out with us? As far as I’m concerned, if she really cares about trying with me, he should not be in the picture at all. Regardless of her intentions or feelings for him, this is very painful to me and really makes me want to NOT want to give 100% for fear of getting hurt. She says that I hurt her for over ten years of our marriage. Does that mean that she feels she has the right to hurt me back now? I tell her that now that I’m sober, I’m not the same person and am no longer capable of that horrible past behavior. Then she says that if I can’t get over it, we shouldn’t bother trying at all. I can get over the stuff that’s in the past, but if she’s STILL communicating with him, that is NOT in the past. I told her that that’s like me taking a few sips of beer a week and telling her not to worry because it’s my business and it’s not enough to get me drunk -- it has nothing to do with her and should have no effect on how she feels about my past drinking, so get over it. How ridiculous would that be?


I’m really torn as to what to do. I’m feeling so much better about myself lately and would really like to see my family healthy and whole. I’ve told her that I’m working very hard to get myself emotionally healthy and really want to have a healthy, intimate, loving relationship in my life. I told her that I’d like to see if that relationship could be with her before I decide to try with someone else. I’m dying to get back into counseling with her, but don’t want to force the issue. I would like her to pick the therapist this time, she didn’t feel comfortable talking about certain issues to the last two I picked, and I don’t want to run into that problem again.


Things between us have been going pretty good lately. We’ve been able to talk more and I feel like she’s finally hearing some of the things I say. But I also feel like I’m in a situation where I need to perfect all the time and not bring up any thing that I feel uneasy about because she throws it back at me with either “This is why I need time away from you” or “If that’s the way you feel then we shouldn’t even bother trying” In other words, if we fail at this it will be my fault for being unreasonable.


Am I being unreasonable wanting her to cut all ties to the other guy if she really wants to try?



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~*Service Worker*~

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Wow, Lou I feel your pain. It appears to me that there are some definate control issues going on here.

I have a hard time w/ the opposite sex friend issue but on the other end. I am accused of screwing: coworkers, her twin sister, my cousin, parents of my kids friends. Sometimes I felt like I should, I'm not getting any and I'm being accused, might as well have some fun for my aggrivation. LOL I had a good friend from HS send me a picture of her son. His middle name was Robert. OMG, the kid had to be mine she thought, why would she name it that. Hello? Earth to wife, kids grand dad is named Robert.

I've cut that relationship at time. I've renewed that relationship at times. Now there is nothing sexual in that relationship at all. We did go out in HS but it was HS, and we remained friends through many relationships after. I will say this though. I can sometimes get emotional needs met there that I can't from my A. I can talk about anything, gain support and not be judged, not have everything thrown in my face like would happen with my A.

Now juxtaposition this with my A's position w/ her situation. When we were first dating, I went on a weekend with my friends to Syracuse. One night while up there, my wife called me up. Something is obviously wrong. She finally tells me, I went to her cousin G's house (who she formally dated and lived with) to get my car fixed and he raped me. Will you call the cops? No. What were you doing there if he has beat and raped you in the past? Nothing I wanted my car fixed. Didn't you think that if he did those things might happen again if you were alone w/ him? Why would you go there? I personally didn't believe she was raped.

Fastforward 4 or 5 years later. Now her twin sister is dating this guy. She wants me to welcome this guy into my house because it would be important to her sister? Hugh? I thought this guy raped you? And now you would be willing to welcome into your house? And you expect me to do the same? Oh did I mention that my A's best friend got mad at her and told me that my first child wasn't mine, it was his? I think otherwise but there is another child that never came to term. Her sister recently told me that her sister wasn't sure who the father was.

So......I'm on both ends of the spectrum. I've expected to be able to have a platonic relationship. I've been expected to accept a supposedly platonic relationship that had sexual activity in the past. It sux.

I dont' know why but it doesn't sound like your acting unreasonable or thinking unreasonably. It sounds like she uses your disease that you've worked very hard at to hold you over a barrel.

Lou, it sounds like it's time to take care of you. You have to make decisions that are in your best interest. Right now, every thing depends on your wife. Everytime you decide to set sail, you hold up the departure to see if she is coming for the ride.

{{{{{{{{Unlce Lou}}}}}}}}}}}

Bob



-- Edited by bobump at 16:42, 2006-01-30

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You are a perfect child of God and God and I love you just the way you are!  (added by me...in that special alanon way)



~*Service Worker*~

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(((Lou)))

Whatta clusterf***!!!

Here's my take.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand your feelings toward this guy and the situation. It appears to me that one one hand she is still playing the martyr ie: You pushed her in to this guys arms. NOT!! I've never been pushed anywhere I didn't want to go. On the other hand she's using her 10 yrs of suffering as an excuse to do so.
It's not ok for her to see, mingle and call this guy if in fact she wants to work on the marriage.
IMO, a line needs to be drawn (boundaries). either "we" work on the marriage and quit dancing around or we just quit.
She has an edge. she can use your past behavior as an an excuse, and she can say "we aren't married".
My guess is that she is comfortable right where she is, doing what she wants to do, not having to find a place to live, having you home if she needs you...
If I recall a few months ago when the house sold..that's when she said she wanted to work on the marriage. Maybe she's afraid to face herself, give up her easy lifestyle.. whatever.
But in my opinion it's time for her to either sh*t or get off the pot, she's had plenty of time to either commit to the marriage or move on. It seems she's enjoying having everything. You, the other guy, a place to live, someone at home (you) to pick up the pcs., deal w/the kids It's not a bad gig!
You've done and continue to do your part...what's hers? When does it begin? When does it end?

My thoughts, my opinion...

Love
Christy

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~*Service Worker*~

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Uncle Lou.....NO U R NOT being unreasonable.  I would want all ties to the ex-lover broken before I would be able to move forward.  I am still friends with an ex.  However we speak only about once a month and we have been friends for much longer than we were a couple.  I think you sound like you know exactly what you want and need.  To me your wife sounds like she is not "into" your relationship enough to do what it takes to fix it. I agree with you that you both need to be in counseling as a couple.  I also agree with bobump...she is not getting on board your marital boat.  Question is do u want to sail away?


 


Keep working it...u r worth it!


 


Julia 



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Veteran Member

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First of all..I wish to apoligize to some of you that have private messaged me over the past few months..regarding articles I used to post on the board...


Even tho..I am a member of Alanon..My main program is on the AA board...and its been a long time since Ive been in here..


Ile try to drop in more often...


Hey Lou? Sounds like a chess game..and youre the pawn..


And yup..control all the way...


Take care of number one buddy...


I know what Ide be doing..but I cant give advice..Its your call..and all the best with it..


 


 



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~*Service Worker*~

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omg (((((( Lou ))))))


I have very very strong fidelity issues.  The very idea that she is blaming you for being w/ this man is unacceptable & ridiculous.  Personally, I don't know if I could get over it.


In my own esh w/ men I have never been able to be 'friends' w/ a man after the sex was over, only once.  Every other time, it would come down to them saying they couldn't bear seeing me & not touching me


I dunno, this sounds like major red flags.  My step-dad has cheatted on my beloved mother for 15 of their 26 yrs of marriage.  I have recently done some research on the subject...  they say men have habits, go to the same hotels, walk on the same side of the street, same restaurants, et cetera.  Women are more difficult to catch in the act cuz they change the details & scenarios everytime. 


A marraige is a commitment to each other...  I know it IS possible for men & women to be platonic friends. But the fact that she is "dissing" him but yet talking to him several times a week, she is talking out of both sides of her mouth ~ saying he'd be an inadequate husband but also keeping him on the side?  I'd call it B/S. 


It def sounds like she is either trying to punish you somehow, hold u hostage or simply control, manipulate you over this.  If there is no attraction, what's the point?    This seems questionable at best.


I have never been cheatted on & I have never cheatted.  I have no clue as to how I'd react.  In the past if I even suspected such a thing, I would have dumped the guy ~ u know all those diseases out there & that's just dating...  in a marriage, where's her commitment?  True you ought to have separate interests & lives/friends but if it must be w/ this man who she's had sex with... dunno, would having him become a friend of both of yours work if you could trust them & if it is truly platonic & they have 'grown passed' each other?  imho, sounds like she wants the comfort of you & company of this guy...  besides the way u put it, she 'likes u again now'  I dunno... sounds off/disrespectful. 


You sound like you have grown a lot & deserve better...  besides if she can't even discuss issues, how's any therapy going to go?


((((((((((((( Lou )))))))))))))   Be careful & talk to HP over it...  what does your intuition tell you?  When I was in love w/ an addict, both my heart & mind was blind to his ill treatment of me but my soul knew!  I just allowed my heart & mind to dialogue & stuff my soul deep in the corner & this was just verbal abuse, nothing like these issues.  Take care of yourself.


love, -Kitty


 


 



-- Edited by kitty at 16:51, 2006-01-30

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~*Service Worker*~

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I'm wondering what YOU are getting out of all this. What is it that you are really after - a loving honest relationship with THIS woman, or just a relationship, and since she's right there, and it would be easier on the kids, and....

She doesn't seem to be interested in working on the relationship, and you seem to be awfully bitter and unhappy about a lot of her behaviour. You can't really have a marriage all by yourself, you know. It's not fair to either of you, or to your kids, for this to just go on - and it could, it could go on for years if you'll let it.

I know we are not supposed to give advice, but oh Lou, get some distance, kick her out of your bed, stop worrying about what she wants and spend a little time finding out what YOU want! You may find that you really love HER - as she is, boyfriends and all, or you may find that you want to just move on with your life. You can't find anything, though, when the two of you are so wrapped in each other's lives.

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(((((Uncle Lou))))))))


One time, months ago I posted and you responded with a something I should have been asking myself.  I think it was something close to ....what are you doing for you? 


I can't give you advice, but I can tell you when my life decisions were held in limbo because I was "waiting" for the other person to make up their mind about how "we" should handle things, I was miserable.  I started to understand a few months ago that no amount of talking, explaining, waiting, setting boundaries is going to make my Husband change. 


However when I started LIVING my life, which was different, because what I had been doing for years which "reacting"  or acting a certain way because I wanted to keep my family together, things started turning around.  One of the most important things I have come to accept is that I can do everything the right way, I can set good boundaries, communicate in a respectful way, explain my needs and wants, but it does not guarantee that my A will respond or do what I want.  (that was a hard one for me) so I have to make sure when setting the boundary that I follow through with my plan. 


I honestly do not believe you are asking too much.  I am sure if the shoe was on the other foot, she would think about things differently.  Hang in there.


Hugs Mary


 



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Mary


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oh Lou, she has an "ex" and an "extra" and from reading, I'm not even sure which one is you. It can't feel good. Can you forgive yourself for behavior before sobriety? Do you have an experience of being let off the hook? Then start from there in your approach to her - when she brings up your old behavior, you're so right to focus on now. How is it working for you now? Children also do well when both parents are happy. I wish you the best.  -- Jill



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Lou,

I cant add much of anything that already hasnt been said. Would just like to tell you I feel your pain. I know how hard it is to make the right decision, for fear it is the wrong one. But I so agree with the idea she is using you as a safety zone. Where is your safety zone?

Figure out what is acceptable to you Lou. If you arent happy with her communicating with this guy set the boundary then stick to it. No control on your part of her...just trying to protect yourself. If she doesnt want to abid by the boundary...she is free to move on.......

I hate to see you continuing to have to feel this pain...Lou.

Yours in Recovery,
David

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So glad to see ya back. I was thinking about you a couple days ago then forgot to
write you!!

Sometimes I want to shake you!! (c: NOONE can push a person into someone elses
arms, anymore than a person can make someone drink. She chose to be with
this man and his children. It is my belief and my feelings that when you are in love
with someone, you do not sleep with someone else, period.

I would not even talk about working on a marriage or getting back together if
my loved one was communicating with another woman. no way.

Uncle Lou it is ok to have a backbone. It is ok to say, this is NOT going to work unles
you are willing to give your all to our relationship. I won't be with you if you
are with him, period.

My A and I have been to h and back so many times. But there is NOTHING he can do
to make me be with anyone else, nothing.

No one can make the feelings come back, but that person. For me, I got to know my A again and
prayed to feel love for him again. I read, "Quiet your mind and let your body
take over." It worked too.

gads Lou, don't you want to be loved for yourself??? Trying to be perfect is
no way to live. Walking on eggshells is awful.

Lou may i say, it sounds like you are not ready for a relationship anyway. It
sounds like you may not be far enough in your program. We know your being an
addict is not your fault! You can be sorry your disease makes you so sick, but
you need to forgive yourself.

I know from my experience when we are working on things, no one says well
this won't work cuz of this, or i might as well leave if you feel that.

Both people need to be accepted as is. There is nothing more beautiful that that.
Lou don't you want to be loved for who you are??? What would make you think
you had to be perfect and what in the world is perfect?

If my A ever talked to me like she talks to you ,i would say well either ya love
me how i am or go away!! i will compromise certain things that is for sure. But
will not put up with anyone tearing me down.

I would not put up with someone who saw someone else.

I know you are sick of me saying it, but if it were me, I would not live in
the same house with her when things are not settled.

You deserve so much more, even if that is being without her, and getting
to know yourself better. love,debilyn












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Lou:  What concerns me is that your ex-wife is not showing any humility whatsoever.  I kinda disagree with some of the other posts, in that athough it is true no one can make you do something (i.e., no one can make a person drink, no one can make a person have an affair), people and cirumstances can play a part in a person delving into these things.  When a husband or wife leaves their spouses emotionally and often physically isolated, as in the case of an alcoholic, it does leave the spouse open to pitfalls -- kinda like throwing the sheep to the wolves.  That is why it is so important to be as a healthy of a person as you can be, so that you don't play a part in creating a dangerous environment.  No man is an island.  In the same sense, your wife, after having an affair and ending it, should have had an epiphany that even with you sober, she is behaving in ways that are destructive to you (i.e., still seeing her ex. creates mistrust and hosility).  In other words, who can really cast stones?  For her to completely vindicate herself with, "You drove me to it," doesn't include her own part in it, then or now.  If she is stuck in this type of thinking and lack of humility, then I don't see how you two can come together.  There is always hope, and I believe people are capable of change if they surrender themselves to their HP.  In times of great decision making, things have always worked out best with me if I just totally turn it over to HP, keep still and quiet, and listen.  If you voice your boundaries and your wishes to establish an intimate, renewed husband/wife relationship and she is stating that she must keep up a relationship with her ex  . . . then I would listen to what this is saying.  We all have to decide at some point what we are willing to live with.  Thanks for your sharing this with us . . . I hope the best for you.

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Krista Evans


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Lou: this sounds like a lot of punishment for you. What part do you think your wife shows in this on again off again thing.  I can understand her in some ways not being able to see that there is a time apart usually from people one has been sexual with. There is a difference between being sexual and friendship.


I think that this is a boundary issue. What are the other boundary issues in your relationship. Do you consider counselling.  Would that help. If she does want to work on the relationship would she be willing to do that. What about recovering couples anonymous.


I can also understand the impromptu living situations the being with someone who is not there.  My boyfriend had a very involved (non sexual) relationship with a business partner.  I was incredibly jealous. They spent every moment together. The business partner was tremendously demanding.  He was always around, he took up all the time. I did not behave well around it.  I had no boundaries of course.


Now I would not entertain that.  I think when we are desperate we entertain a lot of things that can't work.


What are your limits. We can say all we want about what your wife is doing. What do you want?  What do you think a healthy relationship looks like. When I am at my worst I think it is a relationship under any circumstances. I have been there done that on the not getting much in relationship I no longer can do it. I also have sacrified myself so much there is nothing left to give.


I also have felt suicidal and abandoned. The real person who abandoned me was me.


I can put up with a great deal and do the  martyr number for a long long time. I can also do the guilt number over feeling incredibly jealous and left.  I no longer am willing to do that.


It feels funny for me to say but I think actually the way out of martyrdom is willingness. Are you willing to set some limits. To say what you want. Your former wife has said what she wants. What do you want?  What are you prepared to do. Obviously you have gone the whole way with being divorced in some ways that is out of the way.  Now if you want to start anew maybe you need to set a new climate and a new way of being.


Maresie.



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Maresie


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You might want to start researching "toxic relationships"


Best of luck to you.



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