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I could use some insight of those who have grown up in alcoholic families or who have been stuck in the middle of parents. People who were stuck in the middle, between the angry mother and father. Those who were constantly put in between the parents … divorced or not.
I have no experience on being in this situation and I don’t want to put my kids in that situation. I’m presently separated and my A won’t even come in the house when I am here, let alone talk to me on the phone unless it is very important. Christmas is coming up and there have been some necessary questions I needed my A to answer. My kids were going to be seeing him and I asked them to ask him those questions.
Someone told me that that having them ask the questions was putting my kids in between me and my A and could be stressful for them. I had never thought about it that way. I also had a tendency to ask them how their dinner went when they would get home from their visits. I was also told that this could be misconstrued bye my kids as putting them in the middle… or trying to find out information about ‘him’ through them. Is this true???
I don’t want to put them in the middle, however, I don’t want to ignore them if they want to vent when they get home from these tense visits. Do I just say "Hi" or "How was dinner?" or "How did it go?"or not worry about what I am saying. I know that it is no fun being stuck in the middle and it is worse being a kid in that situation.
Please, any help you can give me would be appreciated. Stories, examples of what worked or what didn’t work for you… anything.
My children hadn't seen their dad in almost four years when they started visiting last year. We did not have a good relationship or break-up. I let them know that I worry about their safety and want them to be safe while they are at their dads. I let them know that their dad loves them very much and I'm sure he would never intentionally let any harm come to them, but sometimes things happen that we can't predict. I tried to let them know that I was concerned because they are my babies and I want what's best for them and not because I think he's a poor father or for any other reason. I also let them know that they are entitled to private time with their dad, but if they ever want to talk to me I am here. Sometimes I can listen to them have conversations with each other and pick things up. If I hear anything that causes concern, I call him immediately without questioning the children. I don't do it in an accusing way because I don't want to anienate him any further, but let him know I am curious.
I ask them how they are and how their evening (or dinner) went, but don't question them about their activities or their dad's activities. I try to sound very nonjudgemental (and that is very difficult for me because I am a very critical person.) It makes me very angry that he talks down about my husband (who is an active addict) in front of the children. This causes them to think they can disrespect him as well. My eight year old daughter doesn't even want to come home because of the way her dad talks. That really hurts.
Anyway, no one knows how to handle your children better than you do. You will know what is okay and what their limits are. The fact that you are even asking is a good sign. That implies that you care more about your children's welfare than bashing your ex or using the kids as pawns.
I can say from experience as a child who was awarded custody to her dad due to mother's addiction, & dad remarried 2x that I went through divorce/visitations/kidnappings as a kid. I also divorced my ex & had a kid myself that I raised alone, but saw her dad on court ordered visitations. I will say overall it is best for the kids if you & your husband can communicate directly with each other about everything concerning the kids. It is tempting to try to glean information from them about the visit. You are right in asking general how was it & guage by their response what to say next. Make sure your reaction is to how they are feeling & not yours which is so hard to do. Looking back on it now, I'm proud I didn't stoop to my exe's level & bent over backwards to make sure my daughter could see him and that I was as adult about it as possible. You will have reactions when you hear things they say about the visits - hash those feelings out in alanon or with adult friends - not with the kids. The kids need you & your ex to be the adults, & make the decisions for them. I always felt a sense of guilt as a kid - somehow the divorce, the fights were my fault. When my parents put me up to asking questions to the other one, I felt like I was betraying that one - & like a spy - like I was doing something wrong. Anyway, if your husband won't come in, could you call him, fax him, write a note & hand it to him, walk out & talk to him - anything to do your part to make it easy on the kids. It's hard - I did it for 15 years with my daughter, but I have a pretty clear conscience I can look back on now & answer her questions - because when they get older the questions will come - & I can honestly say I did my part plus some in that area.
That's my humble opinion - always do what's best for the kids - with gritted teeth if you have to. :)
There are so many things I wish I could change now that the kids are grown up. The biggest one is how my husband and I fought like cats and dogs! And in front of them too :( It got to the point where my then young daughter would put her arms out between us and yell, stop fighting! I wasn't brought up in this kind of a family at all. WE did go to counseling and things did change. I was told to let them deal with thier own dad and not get into the middle unless it was not safe for them. I would always get in the middle and still have to stop myself. My husband has this temper and tends to say hurtful things to our daughter :( They need to learn how to deal with their dad is what I learned. It wasn't my repsonsibility to rescue them. If I could do it again, I would use the alanon tools I did not have back then and detatch with love and not engage and be C A L M. I really work on this now with my spouse when he gets angry still. I find when I am calm, the mood in the house is calm. Now the kids will tell their dad to chill out. My one friend never ever bad mouthed her ex to her kids and now that they are grown they respect her for that. He use to say all kinds of horrible things. She would listen if they told her but repsond in a kind way and never put him down. Just reassure them that nothing was due to them etc. They even started hanging up on their dad when they were older teens too after they saw her needing to hang up on him when he would go on a tirate. Hope some of these examples helped.This is a great post to help many in the same situation! Thanks for posting it. cdb (((((((((sandie)))))) xoxoxox
I find even as an adult, my parents tend to triangulate with me, and I think it contributes big time to my codependent issues. I try to mediate, control, cajole, etc., and feel responsible for their getting along. In reality, I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I can't cure it. I need to remind myself of this daily.
I can offer this. I was the messanger for my parents often. And I absofreakinlotuely hated it. It was a terrible position to be in. Being the peace maker and fixer has carried over into my adult life as well, and now that I realize the damage it has done to me and my relationships, it sux. Thank goodness for alanon and awareness cause now I can being to change that and fix myself for a change. Make peace with myself.
My parents and especially my mom also put me in some pretty crappy positions. Like my mom would leave the house to go visit a friend and it was 'my job' to get the mail before my dad. One of those credit card bills he didn't know about might show up. Sheesh. I had a hard enough time getting along with my dad, having that additional wedge didn't make it an easier.
This is not to say that either of my parents are bad people. I understand my dad's intentions and I understand some of my mother's illnesses now better.
As for asking how their dinner went. I was torn on that one. I would, but I've been told that it is kind of putting them in the middle, making them reporters. I loved the way powerless described how she handled it. Sounded like a good balance if giving them their space, not putting them in the middle, yet expressing concern and leaving the door open for communication if needed.
Bob
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You are a perfect child of God and God and I love you just the way you are! (added by me...in that special alanon way)
BUT the only thing I can say is that I think if you DONT ask they will wonder why you arent asking and if you DO ask - they may feel that you are wanting to find out information from them. Just keep the lines open as best as possible.
(((Sandie))) Thank you for posting on this subject. You are a thoughtful mother by thinking of the children’s well being during this difficult time. I will only tell you what my experience has been with the ongoing struggle I have with my ex the A, my son’s father.
The courts are very clear on the topic “not” to “disparage” the other partner, with the children. That said it’s easier for the rational party than the “sick” one. In my experience, I have learned not to ask my son about what went on, who he saw, where he was brought etc unless I knew there was reason for concern. Even then I give my son a day or so to decompress from the visitation. My son is older now, he can and does come to me with his feelings. If you see that they are struggling, perhaps remind them how much you love them and if they ever need to talk/vent you will always be there. Then they may not feel “pressure” from your end.
As for whatever issues that come up that need addressing I send a certified return receipt letter. There is no phone contact with my ex either.
You are doing all you can. Please go easy on you too mom. Lots of well wishes, Tracey
My parents are not divorced and as a kid I was often put in the middle.
There's a saying that if you state something once you are sharing your view. If you say it twice you are being pushy. I think that could be modified to apply to the situation you are talking about, asking your kids how their visit with dad went. I think it's great to ask something in general, like "How was your visit with dad?" I would suggest letting them say what they want and not say what they don't want in response to this question, and letting it go at that. If they want to share they will, and if they don't they won't. At least they know you care, and that you aren't pushing them.
The thing I remember being most troubling about being in the middle is how my parents would refer to each other. "Your mother didn't cook dinner," my father would say. "Your father didn't take out the trash," my mother would say. That always sounded a world different to me than if they had said "Mom didn't cook dinner," or "Dad didn't take out the trash." The your mother, your father thing somehow made me feel like I was somehow in the middle of what they did or didn't do, and it always grated on me.
I think it's great you're considering the kids' feelings in all this. No matter how careful you are there will always be hiccups. Just do the best you can, that's all that matters. You're in my prayers.
Thank you all for your replies. I appeciate your comments.
I now have a better understanding as to mabye what to say and not to say. I had noticed that I had been calling my A "your father" lately and have not liked the sound of it... however, I have done nothing about it. I will now pay special attention to what I call him.
