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Hello. This is my first time on the message board. I've been wanting to go to an Al-Anon meeting but after my husband lost his job, we didn't have any money to have anyone watch my kids so I could go. Anyway, I'm looking for some advice, so-to-speak. My husband lost his job in June of this year. When that happened (he was drinking on the job), he has gone downhill ever since. When he drinks, he gets very angry. He has verbally abused me, screamed and cussed at his 3 year old daughter and calling her names, threatened to start "slapping the 'xxxx' out of me" to put me in line, and once if he thought I might call the cops on him, he said "If you call the cops it will be your last day on this earth." He never remembers these incidents and I've to a point let it go because he doesn't treat me like that when he's sober but this last time he relapsed and scared me enough to leave with the kids again, he had grabbed his pistol, unloaded the clip, checked the chamber, but still pointed it to his head and pulled the trigger and then did the same to me. He also killed our family dog when we left the first time after I couldn't take the verbal abuse anymore. He also during that time left with his gun to find the head of the company who fired him to kill him. Granted he didn't know where he lived but still... He and his parents both try to make all of the incidents sound like it's not so bad and tried to hide the fact that he killed the dog from me. He was drunk. He didn't know what he was doing...well, what if next time he does go one step further and I didn't leave or protect my kids? How can I stay supportive when I don't feel safe around him? I've begged him to get help and I know he has to do it for himself but he gets angry that we've left that he only focuses on the fact that we aren't there and won't take the necessary steps to get help. I understand alcohol is a disease and I've tried to be as supportive as possible. Always encouraging him to go to his AA meetings or go help someone else out. I wanted to find what I could do to help him stay sober. But when he was "sober" he was smoking a lot of pot and taking more of his anxiety med's than he was supposed to. So, when he was sober after rehab the first time for 3 months, he wasn't completely sober. But it's the alcohol that brings out this very angry man that I'm afraid of. I love him but at what point do I walk away for good to protect me and my kids? My heart breaks for him and I do still love him, despite everything, but I just don't know what to do if he won't get help. I'm supportive if he'll get the help he needs, but how can I be when he calls me constantly, angry that I'm gone, verbally abuses me (because he's continuing to drink), threatening to come take the kids from me, in which I'm tempted to put a protective order out on him because I'm not going to be put in a position where he can take the kids in the state he's in. Despite the fact that he's gotten in trouble with the law several time over the last 6 months too. DWI, arrested for pot, kicking a female officer... There's more I"m leaving out but this is enough for now. I'm so lost...can anyone offer any wisdom from any other related experiences?
-- Edited by canadianguy on Tuesday 20th of December 2011 12:46:52 PM
welcome , dangerous situation is right . No one has to live in fear and having a gun pointed at your head is totally unexceptable . You have to take care of yourself and your children .Al-Anon does not suggest we stay in abusive situations . killing your dog cannot be excused because he was drunk /Please take care of yourself - perhaps you can find a meeting durring the day in your area you need support . I would also suggest you search out a womans shelter in case you need a place for your children and yourself . Louise
JM!!! I didn't wait to respond after reading all of your post...I didn't read all of your post cause this situation is life threatening. I am a 33 year member of Al-Anon and have been sober that long also. I am also very very familiar with "black out" situations including "black out situations involving weapons ... loaded and unloaded". I am very experienced with suicidal threats using guns and other weapons and homicidal threats the same both under the influence of chemicals. I am familiar with killing of animals under situations concernign uncontrolled rage and anger. The taking of a life...animal or human under these conditions is a very very serious indicator of out of control violence and the enabling of it...the allowing it to happen without seriously inserting alternatives to the violence is denial in support of eventual loss of life...yours; your childs and others. Loaded or unloaded...if he has put a weapon/gun to your head he should be in a jail which has an AA program.
You and your family and his family are dealing with the "insanity" of alcoholism and one part of that insanity is how you are not responding appropriately to the situation. I am a former Alternatives to Violence Mens' Case Manager and Behavioral Health Therapist...I have put men and women behind bars or in institutions just at the mention of a threat like this. I have been threatened by alcoholic and addicts both men and women and made these choices. I have physically violated others while under the influence of chemicals.
You are not dealing with a rational...sane...healthy human male. You are dealing with an alcoholic who has lost his reality and the memory of it. Your husband is someone else...someone who might live in your fantasy and your alcoholic is not sane and above all it is you who needs to aquire sanity.
When the disease of alcoholism is discribed as a "fatal" disease that doesn't only mean the alcoholic dies...it means almost anyone attached can die and you don't have to have alcohol in you at the time or die because you drank to much over time or all in one time.
The last word of the 2nd step of our 12 steps is "Sanity"...Came to believe that a power GREATER THAN OURSELVES can lead us to SANITY. For lots or most of us that Higher Power is a God of our own personal understanding and it has to be God because no one else has the power over these situations.
By any way possible get into the face to face rooms of Al-Anon...Reach out and ask and ask about child care too. Also I would suggest you talk to the police and family support and family safety or whom ever is in your reach that can help build a dam against this river. Even if he has threatened you "If you tell" you need to tell that also...you are living under a constant threat which he is telling you will start if you try to protect yourself and your child. Its his fear, his manipulation and control, his anger and his craziness along with his alcoholism. If I was was available to you in your town I'd have you in a safe house and him in a cell...drunk or not.
I'm reacting and this reacting has saved lives. Don't let me, someone in Hawaii take this more seriously than yourself. You are in danger and he has experience taking the life of a living thing.
If he is privey to this MIP site and can decypher your post...make sure that he cannot connect you to your reaching out for help.
PM (private message) me if you need further information. ((((hugs))))
I agree with Jerry, you are in a very dangerous domestic violence situation.
In Australia we have a toll free DV number that one can call to get information about how to protect yourself and your children.
The very fact that your husband had killed the family pet alone is viewed by police and psycologists as an escallation of a person's downhill slide into extreem violent behaviour ....regardless of his mental state.
You need to discover how to set up protection walls around yourself and your children by hunting out further help......you have made a good start by finding this site.
The help is there in your area, because I do not live in the USA I cannot be more direct.
I am so glad you have found us. There is much wisdom here. I hope you'll keep coming back.
Sadly the insanity of alcoholism spreads until everyone in its orbit is affected. It sounds to me as if his family has completely lost perspective on what this has become. And because of their views you too may have lost perspective on how dangerous and out of control his behavior is. I imagine all of us here have lost perspective on our alcoholic during our journey -- that's what alcoholism does.
Of course we love the person our alcoholic is when he's not drunk, and he may well love us to the best of his ability. But alcohol messes with the brain and they cannot behave sanely. No matter how much support they get, no matter how much they're loved, they cannot start recovery until they decide to on their own. What I wish someone had told me when I started this journey is that the majority of them do not decide to get better. I waited for many years for my alcoholic to choose sanity and recovery. I put my life on hold waiting for that day, and I endured a lot of crazy stuff, thinking it would all pay off down the line when he recovered. It is fifteen years later and he is still drinking. I wish I had not waited to make my life sane and peaceful.
The violence in your situation is very, very worrying. Even if he would never hurt you when sober, he cannot be relied upon to be sober, as you know. Many women lose their lives in these situations. There are Domestic Violence shelters nearly everywhere. I don't know where you live but if it's in the U.S. you can call the Domestic Violence hotline at 1800799SAFE(7233) (http://www.thehotline.org/). They have a lot of experience in helping. Also Al-Anon meetings often have childcare; your local Al-Anon phone line should have information about that.
Please take very good care of yourself and your daughter. She is relying on you to protect her. And we can't afford to lose you. I hope you will keep coming back. Hugs.
Thank you. I have left for the second time with my 2 kids (3 yrs & 5 months). I know I've done the right thing by leaving. When he's sober, he's the husband I married. When he's drunk, he's a really scary individual. Before I left the first time for a month, right after my son was born, I started recording our conversations, so I have some of his threats recorded. When he's sober, he says he's scared of himself after I've told him some of the things he's done. However, he just WON'T get the help he needs. He says he'll start seeing a counsler for his anger issues, he'll talk to our paster, he'll go back to out-patient rehab so it doesn't cost too much. This has all been since I left the second time (gone now 3 weeks) and he's relapsed, that I know of 3 times and he's not doing much to get help. His parents especially put the guilt trip on me because they feel I'm not being with him "through sickness and in health." How could I leave? Especially around the holidays and his birthday. When his mom sends me a message if I've heard from him and I say no, I can't get a hold of him, she passes it off as "Well, he must be sleeping." Or passed out maybe? And when I respond that sleeping his life away instead of getting the help he needs is not any better than drinking till he passes out, she says it's because his family is gone, his courtdate is coming up, he's going to be lonely over the holiday, etc...all excuses I know to make me feel guilty and she just doesn't want to recognize the seriousness of what's going on with him. I've been advised more than once, I need to stop communication with him altogether and that included coming from my husband's sponsor. His sponsor also said by talking to him my husband is focusing on what he can recover than his recovery, which stuck with me. Not only that, lately he has been threatening to come where I'm at (which he knows where I'm at) and take the kids from me or at least coming to be there for our 5 month old son's eye surgery next week. I know it's his son. I know he does love his children but from everything that I've dealt with in his violent behavior and his continuting to drink to bring on this behavior, I feel I may be forced to put a protective order on him just so we can feel safe. I don't know in what condition he would show up in but I'm guessing he would show up drunk. If I do the protective order, I can only imagine how his family will react and him. How dare I do something like that?! I know I shouldn't worry about what they think but I hate to cause conflict or hurt anyone but at this point, I feel I may have no choice.
Hi and wlcome to MIP. I am glad you found us. I can greatly relate to you and I am so glad to hear you left with your children. I left my husband twice too and the second time I know I will not go back unless he amazes me in the future with working a solid long term program and well to be honest I have lost most of my faith in ever seeing that. My exAH whom I still love threatened me for the first time waking me up out of a dead sleep and was growling at me through clenched teeth and all I could think is he is a trained Marine and has guns in the house. I never fell back asleep that night and in the morning I left with my kids after taking so much verbal abuse it is ridiculous. I had watched him break my new laptop in front of my children, put his head through a window and so many crazy scary things I have lost count. I have been out now over a year and am gaining self esteem and would never put up with some of the past behaviors I have grown up dealing with. I seriously believe my AH was close to taking us all out when he was in a drinking rage and I wasn't going to stick around to be sure, I knew in my gut we weren't safe. I also had my mother-in-law go off on me and blame me for his drinking along with other things the day I was packing up. I already felt guilty enough for leaving him, but after so many years of watching him spiral downward and blame me for it, I had to get out of his way. We were a very close knit enmeshed dysfunctional family. I grew up being abused and married into it not feeling worthy of more. Al-anon meetings, finding my sponsor and coming here to MIP has changed all that and I am no longer a victim, but a survivor. I hope you keep coming back!
-- Edited by Breakingfree on Saturday 17th of December 2011 10:52:12 PM
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
Please continue to have a safety plan for you and your children as your number one priority. I have been in your shoes and sometimes it took every ounce of energy and more to be safe, even in the aftermath. There are often repeats or run-ins.
The insanity and chaos kept me in a very unhealthy tailspin. To break the bad pattern, it became necessary to focus on myself. I could only do this by coming back to Alanon, reading and learning all I could about addiction, and working the steps with sponsors... all show me better choices- that and strengthening my spirituality. It's a continual process and so worth it!
Forget about what his family thinks , they are not the ones being threatened -they are enabling his behavior . You have to protect yourself and your children and if a restraining order is what it takes to do that then so be it. Jerry has given you some pretty strong examples of what your dealing with believe him and do what is right for you and your children .
-- Edited by abbyal on Sunday 18th of December 2011 02:00:30 AM
Regarding the children at an al-anon meeting. I've taken all 5 of mine along with me since our youngest was 2. As they told me it is for the families and friends affected.
Thanks all. I actually got an email from his mom last night about how she doesn't know how to deal with our seperation any longer. She seems him so hurt and unable to help him. I wrote back very truthfully that his drinking was one thing but the abuse that went along with it I simply cannot ignore anymore. He needs some serious help. If she's mad at me for my choices, then so be it. I can't make him happy or get sober. He has to do that. Haven't heard back yet. Not sure that I will and at this point I don't care. I do need to care for me and my kids first. They are definitely my number one priority.
Trust those momma lion instincts...you are afraid...TRUST that.
I agree with another post...get together a safety plan ASAP -- a local women's program is the place to start..they will help walk you through it..
whenever I was in a violent situation with my exAH his mom would say to me "what did you do to upset him?" and then proceed to give me advice about how to approach issues so as not to tick him off. Often family members are major contributors to the disease process..so..
it doesn't matter what his family thinks...or says...what matters is YOU...and honestly...it sounds like you are SPOT ON..killing the dog is a huge red flag...
Know that you are NOT crazy..you are responding to a crazy situation...sending you all kinds of strength and support...
No one can help him. You did not cause it, you can't control it, you can't cure it and neither can his Mom. Make sure you and the children are safe. He has to decide to seek help on his own. Sometimes when the alcoholic's world completely falls apart they hit a rock bottom and then step into the rooms of AA. You can hope and have faith this will happen for your husband and I'm sure he is a wonderful sober person, but while he is still getting belligerently, scarily drunk you must take care of yourself. Please keep coming back if you can and I hope you can get to f2f meetings. People care, please know that.
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Michelle!
No one can take away your peace of mind unless you let them.
You are afraid of hurting peoples feelings whe it is you who have been threatened and are dealing with a very violent and sick alcoholic. You sound like an empathic and sympathetic person, but it's gone haywire here. Look out for #1 here which is you and also for your kids. I would stop contact with his parents cuz they will always side with him and they would do so while standing over your grave (I know that sounds horrid but it's true). You cannot always guard against being a victim, but there are steps to take and definitely avoid people that reinforce that you did something to cause this or that it's up to you to fix it cuz it's not.
Sending you so much support in dealing with this frightening situation. The serenity prayer states, "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference". We cannot change who we married and made children with, but we can find the courage to protect ourselves and our children from the alcoholic and others who are pushing our spouses deeper and deeper into their dark holes. It sounds like to me your husband's parents might as we be there handing him bullets. I feel for them and understand their denial, but as you stated, your innocent and defenseless children come first. You are right now the only person on this earth who can protect your children. It is a gift they will think you for later. I am so sorry you are in such a painful situation with two small children, but I am so glad you are here. Please keep coming back. You deserve safety and serenity in your life. Big, big hug
I i was where you are now. I stayed for all the wrong reasons. I felt I couldn't leave until he was better. i knew he was sick and i didn't want to leave him alone with this disease. I too, had put myself and my children in dangerous stiutations becuase I too was sick because of his alcoholism. I failed to protect myself and my chldren. How sick was my thinking? As a matter of fact during these horrible years my children were left with no emotional support. The alcoholic was deep in his disease but I was sick because of it too. I concentrated my efforts on fixing him and I was not available for my children also. Luckily we all escaped unharmed when I finally got it. No one would be there long-term for the kids. I was going down hill with the alcoholic.
I did end up going to a domestic abuse shelter and they helped me build a new life that was safe for me but especially my children.
I wish I had made better choices. I wish I would have given my children a safe childhood and the emotional strength without fear and anxiety that they deserved. I was neglecting what my children needed most...ME.
May you find the peace and serenitiy you and your children deserve. I will be thinkging fo you. Please don't hesitate to reach out to me. We all need a friend.
Like a lot of things that help us come to understand Lost...We come to learn how to let Go and let God. We don't know how until we learn that we need to and then reach out for help and then we listen with an open mind and get the courage to practice what others have learned that worked for them. Be gentle with yourself...We are all here for each other. ((((hugs))))
In my experience, calling the women's center was the best thing I did. Alanon was the next best thing because it has taught me how to live differently. I hope and pray that you have the courage to change.... Take care of you!
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-youfoundme
Let go and let God...Let it be... let it begin with me...
I live with one now and I hate my life at this time he drink every day, and he is not working but his so call freinds give it to him, I have ask my family member not to give it to him but they do any way and I then have to live thought the lound nose and the bangging counter and table because he is alway angery. I am so sick of living with this man, no him living with me, but he just will not leave and go so I can have some peace. he has been drinking more and more each day and I can not take it any more, what can I do to get him out of my home. Here it is Xmas and I can not enjoy it because of him. What can I do to have peace? All we do is get into it all the time now, I do not sleep any more, have no freinds and most of the time my family do not come by any more because they do not want to be around him HELP me some one PLEASE.
Hugs and welcome please start a new post so we may welcome you properly to the boards.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I am so sorry that this dreadful disease visited your home.
I understand the pain and the fear and would like to share that when I was in similar situation alanon face to face meetings saved my sanity and life.
I found it oh so powerful to break the isolation,connect with others who understood and who could offer me suggestions of how to live thru this horror with courage serenity and wisdom.
Please check out the meetings in your area by looking in the White pages.
Coming here and sharing also enlightened me so that before long a constructive coarse of action was made clear and I was able to move in a better direction
Thank you all for your support, I am so sorry I was so hurt when I did my first post that I did not tell you any thing about me, I am not a drinker, we have been together for some years now and over the year he has just gotten worse with the drinking, I have tryed to get him to go to a progrma and said I would go with him, he said to me I do not have a problem, he have lost jobs behind drinking, let me back up his father was a drink and would beat his mother even shot her one time as well as Michael that is his name five time and he almost died. When he is not drinking he is the nices person in the world, but just as soon as he get a drink he is a man man. in the past three months he has gone for week with out any drink at all and have said to me that i really do not need this any more, but he still has not stopped. Though all the maddness I when back to school and got two degrees, it was hard, but I did it. I work and have a streefull job, so I get stress at home and work as well. Pray each and every day That God will change thing in my life for the better. Job wise and man wise, I know that he can and will in his time, I am 53 years old and I still have a lot of life in me. I went though breast cancel in 2009, and have had problems with my knee, but I keep going, knowing that life will get better for me soon. Any advise I welcome .
