The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I am coming to terms with my alcoholic fiance and have recently learned about detachment through local Al-Anon meetings and Al-Anon literature.
The point (in my mind) of having a spouse is to have someone in life to share experiences with, someone to love and who will love me in return. There are so many amazing things in life that I want to share whole-heartedly with my future husband.
Many things that I have read recently about detachment talk about accepting the fact that I may make plans to have a night out with my fiance but I need to understand that if he is drunk I should have a backup plan. I should find things in my life to do without him because I need to remove myself from his situation and recognize the likelihood that he won't be there to share things with me.
Why?? Am I mis-understanding what detachment is all about? I seem to hear the same thing over and over, "Keep this person in your life even though you may not share anything with each other and you should be ok with that". I am not ok with that.
This hurts like hell and the only kind of detachment that I can imagine is to remove myself from this situation entirely and move on with my life. I know that sounds selfish but I don't see a bright future living with an alcoholic. He is depressed and has lost all motivation to continue on with his career. I don't trust him, he has lied to me a thousand times and every time he speaks I wonder if he is lying again. He took himself to rehab and since he came home it is worse than ever. I have tried to help. I have tried not to help. I stand by and watch from the outside and live alone in a home where we live together.
The effects of addiction are staggering for the addict and for the addict's family. I honestly don't see how it can be better after the amazing amount of damage that has been done.
I do feel for you. I sure do know where you are. I have loved my A husband for over 33 years, been thru all kinds of hell and back.
This disease does not get better, it gets worse and worse. Even in recovery, there are many different obstacles.
I don't trust or mistrust. Taking a day at a time and taking care of me are key. I don't live my husbands life. What he does, he does. i don't judge or keep count.
Used to though, didn't work. I love him very much, and detaching has kept us together. I love him, hate the disease and what it does to him. It makes him lie and get into terrible messes.
Yes we do have pretty separate lives sally. i wanted what you do too. But i wanted my husband more. I am fortunate that I have a farm and have animals, and gardensz. HE also builds things for me and helps with the animal sanctuary. So I changed how I did things. Instead of going to the beach or going to movies, we build things together, fix things, feed, watch movies at home and we shop together.
I am very happy and thankful for him, A or not. Only each individual can decide if they are going to stay with or marry an A. If he died, I would not ever, ever marry another A. never.
Not becuz of me, but more that i do not want to watch another person I love to have to go thru it. I see him tortured, he hates it when he is controlled by the disease.
sally one thing I believe is true with all of us is, we can only change ourselves. This is a biggy around here. I changed and change me to accept and love my A as is.
I do have boundaries and he really does comply. I also have changed some things to make him feel better. I don't bring home animals with out asking him how he feels about it. I don't plan to take any in anyhow but I never know if I will get an abuse or neglect call.
People need to be loved for who they are. Nothing is more fulfilling than knowing someone really loves us warts and all. To me alcoholism is not different than cancer or any other disease. He did not choose it.
Would you marry your fiance if he had brain cancer and that is what made him do what he does? I meant my vows, in sickness and health...I meant it and I can live with him becuz of alanon. i am a fortunate one as my A is a very nice person. Just becuz someone is A does not mean they are nice straight. Or visa versa.
Does your A go to AA? Does he have a program of recovery? Being sober means nothing without a program. It is only one symptom of being an a.
So much info I know. The book that helps me the most is, "Getting Them Sober. " I find them in used book stores.
Hopefully you don't hear from anyone advice on whether to stay or leave, as that decision is unique to you, and your circumstances.... Detachment, in and of itself, does not say "stay and put up with their crap".... Detachment, in it's truest sense, is to simply detach yourself from other people's junk, and live your own life.... it is very difficult to detach from an active alcoholic, but you will find many on here who try - some with success, others without....
I would suggest that many people on here, from their own experiences with A's, are thinking to themselves "A" and "fiance" just don't add up.... RUN BABY RUN!!! (lol)
Your stay or go decision is yours to make.... we are simply here, trying to make the most of our lives, as some of us have chosen each of those paths...
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I too can only give you my story, I was involved with an active A. He too was my fiance, we never did marry but had 2 children together. I thought I was going to be with this man forever. YOu know what? I finally got the courage to leave and better me and my life. I was not wanting to live a crazy world anymore. I still have to talk with him as we share custody of 2 kids but Iam able to detach myself from him and his behavior. Alot of people are able to stay with an active A, but I think you have already answered your own question. Change is scary but without some fear we never grow.
When I left my A I never knew alanon. I have only just found this program in may, consider yourself lucky that you have found it when you have. You will gain so much from bettering yourself.
Two words came to mind as I read your post: awareness and acceptance. It sounds like you are becoming more aware to what is in front of you. Whether you like what you see or not really doesn't change it, does it? The only thing that you can change is your attitude about it and your actions. Which leads to the next part; acceptance. Once you are aware of the situation you have a choice to stay and accept the 'bad' stuff with the 'good', or run and give up the 'good' stuff along with the 'bad.' I put the words bad and good in quotes because I'm starting to see that these terms are tricky. I don't always know what is good or bad in my life, sometimes things that seem bad at the time turn out to be the best for me and vice-versa.
I'm struggling with a lot of this stuff in my relationship with my recently divorced wife. She's really not sure if she made the right decision. I'm not sure if I really want her back or (maybe like you or not) I want back the fantasy of a loving healthy relationship that may never happen. I do know that with my 2 years of sobriety and 2 kids I would like to at least give it a shot.
Welcome to MIP. You will find great strength, wisdom, experience and hope here.
Debilyn has given you a wonderful example of detaching with love. Lou has given you another side to it. Only you can decided what you really want with your life.
My A (husband) and I are living apart for now. His first year of sobriety has been a challenge. But he is getting better. He is in assisted living working hard on his sobriety. It hasn't been easy. But we decided that it would be better to live apart while he got healthy and worked on his recovery, and I did the same. I have loved this man since the day we met in college. We waited 22 years to be together. Believe it or not it wasn't until a couple of years ago that I even thought he had a drinking problem. Last year he finally went to rehab and then relapsed several times. That's when we made the decision about living apart. It doesn't mean that we don't love each other. We want this to work. The only way for it to work, is to him be sober and me dealing with issues that affect both of us. I knew that I didn't and couldn't live with an active A. I'm just not made that way. I admire the people who can. They are just as emotionally healthy as I am. But each person is different.
One other thing about my A and I. We, by nature are two very independent people. We always have been. While we enjoy staying home with each other, we each have our own lives to live. Just because we're married doesn't mean that we have to stop being who we were before we said "I do". I fell in love with a very intelligent, independent, loving man. That hasn't changed because he's an alcoholic. It's like saying once he found out that I have high blood pressure he's stopped loving me. He has a disease and so do I. But our relationship has changed for the better. What happened was last year before I found AlAnon I started to loose myself and who I was in his disease. I stopped going to dinner with my friends once a month because I thought I had to be home to "control" his drinking. Guess what? I can't!
I've said it a hundred times here, you can't loose yourself in his disease. Your recovery and his (if he so chooses) are two separate things. No matter what you must concentrate on you. Because in order for you to make clear decisions one way or another is to be informed, and emotionally healthy (I'm not saying you've gone nuts don't misunderstand me please).
Relationships with addicts (active or not) are challenging. Some people decide that they are up for the challenge, others decide that they would be better off not being in the relationship. They also get reinvented along the way. It's how they grow and adapt to the times. I have no regrets about the decisions we've made. I wouldn't change this year for anything, good and bad. My A and I are closer than ever. So while I miss him and wish he was home, we're doing the right thing. We both have no doubts about that.
I suggest 2 readings for you to gain some perspective: Lois Remember and the Blue Book chapter on wives and families. The latter is availble on-line. Just go to the AA website and download the book. Lois Remembers you can get through here.
Nothing is hopeless if there is love involved (I'm the hopeless romantic on the board I think) Keep coming back to us. Be good to yourself.
Live strong, Karilynn
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
I live with an active alcholic who has not decided to get sober. I have been married for 15 months and have known him for 6 yrs. It is very hard to deal with him when he drinks/drugs but I am not ready to make any moves. It is not going to be easy to change. On Sunday I left because he was arguing about something and I came back two days later.
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Hey everyone watch me grow. I go thru good & bad times. each day i am getting stronger.
"I would suggest that many people on here, from their own experiences with A's, are thinking to themselves "A" and "fiance" just don't add up.... RUN BABY RUN!!! (lol)"
The above is from canadianguy's post, and is most likely what I am thinking to myself. Only you can make the decision regarding how you want to spend your life. Detachment is something I have not accomplished, and doubt I ever will. I feel you have stated the concept correctly, so you have a fair idea of what's ahead should he continue to drink. Not my idea of a happy-ever-after life....
I wish you the very best, and hope that you do come back often to visit. There are many points of view here, all well worth considering.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I'm a 'newbie' to this board - unfortunately not new to alcoholism. I've been separated from my alcoholic husband for over two years. He's been sober and 'recovering' for just under two. I put recovering in quotes because I could easily debate that part. I spend most of my time lurking on this board rather than posting, but this topic stirred me to add my experience.
I am also one who could not master detachment while living with an active alcoholic. Heck - I have a hard time detaching from a recovering alcoholic that I'm not living with anymore! I think some people are better at it than others. I truly admire those who grasp and accept the concept well enough to practice it and have it work in thier lives.
I have learned a lot about alcoholism and how it affects the family over the last 3 years. What works for one may not work for the next. I used to get so frustrated when people would tell me that "only you can decide what works for you." I wanted someone to tell me what to do so I wouldn't have to hold myself accountable for making the choices that my gut was telling me to make. I finally reached my own acceptance, and I accepted that I'm simply not suited for detachment. Never will be. I want (need) more from a relationship. But at least I know that now. I know what *I* need for me.
It's a challenge and a journey getting there, but as long as you keep learning and focusing on YOU - rest assured you can't help but figure it out. Most often - your gut (intuition, HP, etc.) will lead you.
I really, really encourage you to LISTEN to yourself and your instincts, your gut, the still small voice within. It does seem to me that you answered your own question in your post. You indicate that you want someone who is really present in the relationship, who is trustworthy, who is there for you. Unfortunately, an alcoholic who is not in recovery will not provide any of those things for you. This is a progressive disease. The things that you are seeing now will, without recovery, only get worse.
Remember, you can always SLOW down and not make a decision right away. When I don't feel ready yet to make a definitive decision, I often assign myself a brief period of time (say, 2-6 months to do "research"). In this period, I read everything I can and I OBSERVE the situation. I have a firm belief that "People show you who they are" and it is our job to pay attention to what they show us and decide for ourselves if we want it in our lives. During this time its helpful to simply detach with love. That is, not to argue or try to change the person, or try to obsessively solve their problems, but simply OBSERVE THEM BEING WHO THEY ARE. In addition, pay close ATTENTION TO YOURSELF: Are you happy or stressed, are you enhanced or drained? Do you stop taking care of yourself because you're worrying about him?
I also at times apply the 365 day rule (when I have to make a decision about a couple relationship). That is, I ask myself, if this person NEVER CHANGES and this BEHAVIOR NEVER CHANGED, do I really want to sign up to live with this for the next 365 days (let alone the next ten years) (LOL)?
These three processes described above often very quickly gives me the information I need to make my decision.
Although many people do stay, it seems its often in marriage--because they love the person and they take the marriage vows seriously, I think it's important to recognize that you are in no way obligated to love, care for, let alone live/with marry this man who is not able to fully care for you or himself. Your first job in life is to take care of YOU! Your well-being, your happiness, are most important! It may be a "hard call" to walk away from this, especially if you love him, but it doesn't mean it isn't the right choice. Ultimately, however, ONLY YOU can decide what to do.
I have read a little of what others have posted to you. Two thoughts cam to mind, 1) I am so lucky to be surrounded by all this recovery and ESH. 2) They are all correct, only you can make that decssion to stay or leave, nobody else but you.
I have made my choice. I am staying with my "A". This program doesn't make you choose to stay or go, you make that choice.
No matter what you choose, I would liek to suggest that you keep coming back to alanon. Your life has been affected by another's addictions, you fit right in.
Keep Coming Back!
Much Love,
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"Today's problems can not be solved if we still think the way we did when we created them" -Albert Einstein
I have a set idea of what marriage is supposed to be, it was passed on to me by my parents, they have lived it for almost 50 years. A give and take, sharing partnership. Two people who put each other above all else. Growing up I was blessed to see this, as I still am. My Mom and Dad are each others best friends. They do things together, travel together, after 47 years of marriage, she still sits on his lap, they hold hands and are very affectionate and demonstrative. My sister and I have always been included in the affection.
Growing up my Mom worked part time and took care of most of the housework. My Dad woked full time and provided for the family financially. When my Dad came home, he helped with our homework, our baths and bedtimes. As we got older, we sat as a family, read together, watched tv together or worked on crafts togetehr. Family vacations where just that, we camped, sat around the fire, canoed together and fished together. Mom and Dad went away twice a year with just the two of them. I had as close to perfect a model of marriage as possible to emulate.
I married an alcoholic. There is no give and take. I give, he takes. Because he can't hold a job, there is no extra money for family vacations. I work full time, and deal with the house, and the children. He drinks and contributes nothing to this family. There is no family time, at night he was either drunk or in bed. He ate dinner when he felt like it in bed.
There was no togethre time, his idea of relaxation was to hang in a bar, or go out riding around sneaking booze. As the years have gone on, the kind words are few and far between, they are replaced by ugly, filthy insults, to try and boost his own ego. The children are my responsibiltiy, as is everything else. He believes he does enough.
Alcoholism is a progressive disease, 20 years and 6 kids ago, I had no idea what it would be like.
Detaching is hard, because I have never believed I should detach from my husband, that was not what marriage was supposed to be. I hold to my marriage vows, and have stayed in sickness and in health, and in good times and bad, I am waiting and prying for the good. In my opinion he has never stood by me, he has put all others above me and our children. God help us if I get sick, because I know all too well, that I can expect nothing from him.
Only you know what you can put up with. Love is very important, but can be very difficult when there are children, no money, no one to talk to and no guarantees.
I'm just being honest, not trying to scare you. Just remember, if he continues to drink, it will get worse, and decide what you can live with.
WOW - A million thanks to everyone who responded. Your words mean so much, I have read them over and over and it is so wonderful to hear your stories and your advice.
I feel safe sharing my thoughts with you, I haven't felt this way in quite a while.
There's a saying I've heard many times in the rooms of Al Anon .......Some of us are strong enough to stay and some of us are strong enough to leave.
Both decisions take strength, courage and perserverence (spelling?). Noone can tell you what's right for you, that's something you will have to honestly figure out for yourself.
My experience........had I not had children with my A while we were still engaged (twins mind you!) I don't believe I would have stayed with him. They say hindsight is 20/20. I love him with all my heart but if I had known then all that layed ahead for me in my realtionship with him I honestly would not have stayed.
Another saying goes.......when the pain of staying gets greater than the fear of leaving, that's when we'll act. Sometimes it is fear that keeps us in unhealthy relationships. I know for me the fear of being alone was so intense that I would choose to settle for way less than best just to have someone.
You are right when you project that if he continues drinking you will not have the *typical* partner that other married women have. It's sad, but true.
Like someone else suggested, you don't have to make a decision right this very second. Don't pressure yourself. Just think all your options through and take everything into consideration before actually saying *I Do*
Glad you're here and please keep sharing.
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Kathy S --
~*I trust my Higher Power that I am exactly where I am supposed to be in my life today.*~
hi sally, i too am engaged to my a. but really it is no longer an engagement. im realizing now my relationship is a lie. it is a fantasy. i make myself believe that one day everything will be perfect again. but without recovery it wont. right now our situation is livable but the thing is what everyone else has replied about has completely got me thinking. my whole life i've always wanted someone to have my back and love me more then anything. but in this relationship i dont believe i will ever receive that. i love my a so much and without him i feel like i couldnt go on. but im coming closer everyday to seeing that i just might be able to. i want a loving husband and a family some day. i dont want to be second best to a substance.so why stick around and wait for the worst to come? i still am confused as well. one day at a time i am taking all of this in. this program is helping me learn myself all over again. getting to know the real me before i even got mixed up with him. so stick with the program and your answer will one day come
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stay in the now...dont look forward, dont look back....your life is what you make of it
