The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I read again and again how I can overcome my anger and resentment, and that I must realize that the anger and resentment is not caused by the A in my life. Well, what about the serene life I led for all those years before he showed up? I can not look at this and rationally conclude that I am causing my own unhappiness. No. He is causing it. I cannot accept that I can or should expect to live a serene life whether or not he drinks. Someone tell me how to do that. I am a thinking woman, and what I think about are the facts; i.e. my financial responsiblility for his mistakes. Tell me how I can be serene whilst accepting the fact that as the one with the money, I stand to lose everything by his misbehavior. How I could possibly live with myself if he were to injure someone or worse if I did not lay my body down in front of the wheels of the car to prevent him from driving. Tell me how I go about being happy and content all the while knowing that sooner or later he is going to go off on another "gentleman's vacation", come home sick and miserable, and tell me all he wants is to go back to England because he hates America and all things American. Sober, of course, he tells another story, but who knows which one is the truth. In vino es veritas. I cannot go humming a tune knowing that he is essentially insane. I consider this disease to be more one of the mind than of the body. SOmebody tell me...when does my peace of mind come? He is sober now, but I have seen through the gates of hell since being married to him. I do not care to visit there again. Please do not tell me I need f2f meetings. I tried them, and found the people there to be of a mind not to move on, but rather to become mired in the pits, all the while depending on the steps and their HP to deliver them. Sometimes we have to drag ourselves up, and the HP has got to be grateful for our agreeing to help ourselves. He's got enough to do dealing with the state of the world today. Ok, so you can say, "Well doesn't sound like you are doing too well on your own." to which I would answer, "You just wait and watch." I am thankful for the people here who listen patiently and offer encouragement, but overall I feel I am the only one who can cure me.
'Fess up now. Anyone else feel this way?
With love to all, Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I read again and again how I can overcome my anger and resentment, and that I must realize that the anger and resentment is not caused by the A in my life. Well, what about the serene life I led for all those years before he showed up? I can not look at this and rationally conclude that I am causing my own unhappiness. No. He is causing it.
********Have you ever heard how an alcoholic/addict is sick long before they ever pick up their first drink? Try to think of it like that. Perhaps your life seemed serene before him, but there was a reason you got involved with something with an addiction. When we ourselves are spiritually sick, we attract the like. Regardless if we realize we are doing this or not. That's why a lot of times you'll see a member who has been married and divorced from 2 or 3 different types of A's. They always felt if they just left their current A, all their problems would be gone. However they still take themselves (being spiritually unhealthy) into the next relationship, and the cycle continues.
You wrote:
I cannot accept that I can or should expect to live a serene life whether or not he drinks. Someone tell me how to do that. I am a thinking woman, and what I think about are the facts; i.e. my financial responsiblility for his mistakes. Tell me how I can be serene whilst accepting the fact that as the one with the money, I stand to lose everything by his misbehavior. How I could possibly live with myself if he were to injure someone or worse if I did not lay my body down in front of the wheels of the car to prevent him from driving.
********If God forbid he did hurt himself or someone else, that is on him, not you. You can't control his actions or choices anymore than you can control his drinking. So worrying about something that is completly out of your control is robbing you of your serenity. There are things you can start doing to protect yourself financially. This goes along with the changing the things we can part of the serenity prayer. Close any joint accounts and open separate ones. Separate your finances as best you can from his.
You wrote:
Tell me how I go about being happy and content all the while knowing that sooner or later he is going to go off on another "gentleman's vacation", come home sick and miserable, and tell me all he wants is to go back to England because he hates America and all things American. Sober, of course, he tells another story, but who knows which one is the truth. In vino es veritas. I cannot go humming a tune knowing that he is essentially insane. I consider this disease to be more one of the mind than of the body. SOmebody tell me...when does my peace of mind come?
*********Yes sooner or later he is going to pick up and drink. Why? Simply because he is an alcoholic not in recovery,and that's what they do. How you can be serene having this knowledge of what's to come is to focus on yourself, instead of on him. When he comes home sick and miserable, have plans for yourself so if you choose, you don't even have to be there to listen to his sob stories. Your serenity will come when you start working your program. Face to face meetings, sponsor, step work, service work, minding your own business when it comes to him, reciting the serenity prayer until it sinks in and you begin to believe in what your praying for. All these things together will bring you serenity. It will evenutally no longer matter if he's sober or drunk, YOU will be at peace because your life and your moods will no longer revolve around him and what he's doing. It won't affect you as strongly as it does right now.
You wrote:
He is sober now, but I have seen through the gates of hell since being married to him. I do not care to visit there again. Please do not tell me I need f2f meetings. I tried them, and found the people there to be of a mind not to move on, but rather to become mired in the pits, all the while depending on the steps and their HP to deliver them. Sometimes we have to drag ourselves up, and the HP has got to be grateful for our agreeing to help ourselves.
*******Working the steps is the key to our recovery. Step two shows us that relying on our HP can and will restore us to sanity. The program recommends going to at least 6 consequtive f2f meetings before deciding this program isn't for you. Have you done that? If you didn't feel you fit in the meeting you went to, try another location. Also.....when you're asking what will bring you serenity, but in the same sentence stating what others shouldn't tell you to try, well you're not going to get your serenity that way. If you want what you see others here have (peace in their lives regardless of what their addicted loved ones are doing) then you have to do what they did in order to get what you want. There's nothing wrong with helping ourselves, but the steps and f2f meetings are what has changed many of our lives in a very positive way. If we ourselves could solve our problems alone, then we wouldn't be here. Relying on a power greater than ourselves is the key.
You wrote:
He's got enough to do dealing with the state of the world today. Ok, so you can say, "Well doesn't sound like you are doing too well on your own." to which I would answer, "You just wait and watch." I am thankful for the people here who listen patiently and offer encouragement, but overall I feel I am the only one who can cure me. 'Fess up now. Anyone else feel this way? With love to all, Diva
*********Yes I have felt the way you are in the past. I was angry, I felt the program didn't work, I felt perhaps others who claimed they were living peacefully while still with their A were BSing everyone because I just didn't see that it was possible. BUT.....I was a lot like you in the begining. I wanted the cure, but I didn't want to have to go through taking the medicine to get the cure. I wanted it instantly and on my terms. Sponsors, step work, meetings, I felt all that wasn't for me. I was a smart women, I didn't need all that mumbo jumbo to get better. Well, that attitude kept me unserene and my life unmanageable for a long long time. Until I finally reached MY rock bottom and got so sick and tired of feeling and living the way I was that I became willing to do anything to stop feeling that way. That's when I got serious about this program and followed the suggestions to a tee. Meetings, sponsor, stepwork, service work etc. Then and only then did I start to recover and change. Give it a try, what have you really got to lose? Can't be much worse than the frustration you're feeling right now can it?
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Kathy S --
~*I trust my Higher Power that I am exactly where I am supposed to be in my life today.*~
You pose a difficult question for me to answer. I "feel" the answer inside but getting it out?
What you say about how your life was serene before your a and how due to his actions and you being responsible for possible consequences financially and morally you feel like he is causing your unhappiness. That you are not causing your own unhappiness, but that being married to him is.
The program tells us that we can find serenity whether the A continues to drink or not, if we will give the program the chance. Nowhere, that I know of, does it say that this means we will stay with the A whether he continues drinking or not, it just tells us we can fix us.
Ultimately, my friend, I believe it is still up to us to make the decision as to what we can have in our lives that will afford us the possibility of serenity.
Sheese, I dont know if what I said makes sense Diva, I do know that (and I am not pushing ftf meetings at you) most of the people that I know in the program do try to move on with their lives, with varying degrees of success. Some do not, or have not yet. Perhaps the time is just not right for them. It does take time to fix all those things inside of us that need repairing and it is hard to do this alone.
As always, so glad you posted......you definately make me dust off the brain cells!
Hi Diva- I like u because you are an alanon rebel. I question it a lot as well--but so does my A (he thinks he is not addicted enough to do NA/aa) Interesting. I don't love f2f either--but at times it has been helpful and humbling. I never seem to find "my people" in the groups. I realize that we should look for what we have in common rather than our differences, but that being said--it is still not necessarily my cup of tea. As far as the anger and resentment go-- I think I probably give my A credit for messing up my life more htan he deserves. I know some of my resentment is regret--on various levels over various life decisions. keep on ?ing-- we need it- Jeanne
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In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip.- Daniel L. Reardon
i used to let my "A's" actions spill on to me......the worst was when he would drive drunk, what if he ran over someone....finally i decided and this was WAY B4 recovery......"his driving is NOT mine...i am NOT to blame for his stupid things"......i began to feel freeer....we would go to parties, and he would be a jerk, and i ignored him, partied with my friends, and disassociated from him....noone judged me for his actions......not one......i got invited over people's houses, not him, but i got invites, and i went...by myself....i did that more and more....just made my own life w/out him....i ended up leaving!!!!! if i was going to do stuff alone, i may as well have the freedom from a drunk as well........i loved him, when he was sober he could be FUN!!! it was hard, but i knew he was tearing me down with his crap...it was just TOO unhealthy for me to be with him......hell life ishard enough, and when he refused to go to AA....(i was in alanon) but when he refused to go to AA....that was it.....if he had gotten into recovery and worked it, i would have stuck with him.......but he chose to drink, and be a jerk.......the only regret that i have???? not staying in al-anon........cause no doubt, as good as i am doing in the 12Steps...i wold have gotten healed from my crap...and maybe had had a life....oh well....not going to look back....just at now and what i can do NOW to take care of / bless me...........peace to you/ rosie
Diva, I'm new here so bear with me. My A had eight years of continuous sobriety, he started drinking two weeks ago. I know I can not go on like this... I've got eight years (more or less) to know what it is like living with him sober. Some of the Alanons I've met have never lived with a recovering alcoholic, the chaos of living with a practicing A may feel familiar to them. I miss my sober husband. But, I don't like the man I am living with today. I don't know what the future will bring, but I know I can't live very long in the same house with him drinking. It was refreshing to read your post. Thank you.
You are the only one that can answer that. Is it worth it? Do you want your old life back? I wonder if we could ever GO back after being through what we've been through? Are we scarred forever?
I left my 1st marriage because I just couldn't live in it any more. I was becoming physically ill. I went to my doctor for pills for my anxiety and depression. He told me to get rid of it...so I did, I divorced it!
Some would say I went from the frying pan into the fire. I fell in love with my A. We broke up many times, but always got bank together because we loved each other too much to stay apart. It has been a crazy world with him, but I am so much happier with him than I was with my ex. He isn't active like he had been, and there's always the fear there, but I just take one day at a time. I am sure though, that if he went back to being active (the pissy bed, etc., etc.,) I would NOT go back! We can only take so much! So many times I have wondered why I stayed? In the end, it has been worth it. We have a lot of fun together and just about everything in common.
Through Al-anon, I HAVE found serenity, self love, confidence... Now, I know I can "Make it" with or without my A. For today, I choose to stay.
My marriage got to the breaking point and I left. You are the only one who knows if you're at your breaking point. Take care of yourself, praying for your serenity, Love TLC
After my short seperation from my A in October I decided there were new boundaries that needed to be set. I refuse to be one of the people that are happy and married for 50 years to a practing crazy insane alcoholic drug addict. I told him that his returning to our home was trial basis for as long as it takes. He is still drinking, two times a week, has binged once since returning home. I didn't point it out, he had made an a** out of himself in front of people he respects and loves. He was devastated with what happened. He knows now that one episode with cocaine and it's over! I made that very clear, and he knows that I am a different person than I was a year ago. So I guess I have no answers to your questions only that I too have been to two different places for f 2 f meetings, I was uncomfortable and not in the crisis state that the others were in. I have done lots of reading of Alanon litature and found that certain parts of the program work for me. So I guess I take what works and throw the rest away. I have become closer to having a better relationship with my HP and with myself. That has helped a great deal. I don't attend church but I do pray, I am finding myself praying more and more which adds a calmness to my life.
Diva - I obviously can't answer for you, but I can share my personal experience....
I used to claim that F2F meetings were not for me, and that the people were 'stuck', and not for me, etc., etc.... Those same people, have since become one of my sanctities and lifelines. I used to joke that when I first went into the doors of Al-Anon, the people there were stuck and focussed on their A's, whereas I wanted to progress and move on with my life.... I went away for at least two years, and continued to suffer....Now, years later, these same people are full of valuable information and experience, and there are times when I can't get by without them..... Boy, did they ever learn a lot in the time I was gone!!! lol - that was a joke!
Online meetings and boards are wonderful, but for me, they do not replace f2f meetings..... There is far more accountability and honesty, mainly within ourselves, that happen when we show up to meetings in person.... Online, if I am having an "off day", I can either not post, or selectively post, or whatever....
When it boils right down to it, we "Al-Anons" are not all that different from the alcoholics.... We resist our programs of our recovery, determined that we can "do it on our own". I had to learn, the hard way, that I needed to be humbled, and that I did indeed need help, from every available avenue that was there for me....
Just my experience....
Take care
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Kathy...Spiritually sick, my dear, I am not. My husband was a recovering addict with 25...yes 25 years sober when we met. He exhibited no overt signs of the disease until a couple years after we married when, for reasons known only to an A, he took a drink. Lest I forget to tell you, he did not feel it necessary to mention to me that he was/is a recovering A before we married. He is sober with a fall once in a great while. I hate those falls, but I get weary of hearing the same old song and dance about ME being sick and causing my own negative emotions. He has his program. He has been in AA for years and years, believes in the program, attends two meeting each week regularly. OK, so a person can attend AA and still "have no program"...be a "sober drunk." He's not that person. One thing that annoys me is one who will try to remind me that I attract addicts when I have never even KNOWN one before in all my not-so-few years of life, and without knowing my particular circumstances. No program is a one-size-fits-all deal. No matter what I say here, it can be construed and twisted by a rabid Al Anoner so that I fit the mold that everone must fit. Nope I just do not buy it.
Why am I here if I do not fall straight down the middle of the Al Anon program? Because I feel Al Anon has its place, and I am happy to be able to express my feelings on this forum with those whose views may be slightly different from my own. But I do resent the feeling of being stamped out with a cookie cutter.
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Like you I take many things away from this board. I have found it incredibly helpful. To me our recovery and our A's is a very individual thing. Some of us need more f2f meetings, and others find that this board and our own private work is enough. No one is cut from the same mold. Let us all be tolerant of our indviduality and all the foibles that go along with it (I have a ton). I welcome the different points of view. They keep me on my toes and challenged. For that, I thank all of you.
Live strong, Karilynn
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
((( Diva ))) good questions! I use the smorgasbord approach - take what I like and leave the rest. I do it with F2F and the message board. Some authors I leave. Some I gobble up. The part about why we attract them... that's just blaming someone who doesn't need more blame. I leave it.
About not progressing ... it is frustrating to see that in people in meetings because I want them to just get over it or move on. Then I see it in myself later on. ugh I wish us all speedy happiness, but that doesn't make it happen.
Alanon has room for all of us. I'm glad to read your perspective. Sometimes it works like a literary foil - others I'm right there. take care -- Jill
I am sorry that your marriage was started off in the wrong manner (deceitful?) to begin with. That said I was also told in my first face to face that we learn to focus on "us" not the A. Sounds to me like you are working on “you” in the way that suits you best. This is only your opinion, just as many have their own and are at all different stages in recovery here. I have seen a few that have a black belt in Al-Anon while others only go by what they learn taking the ODAT approach and some sugarcoat to cope just fine -Or are they? What your post reminded me of is ---What exactly was it that lead me to be attracted to my ex the A, his abusive, controlling yet so sweet ways? I look back now and see it was me, I had faults within myself that I actually found him "normal" and okay for me, that I was a vulnerable broken person inside (being young and naive didn't help) Also worth mentioning when new to program I was very resentful for needing to “recover” while he appears to be just fine with his life.
Today I am stronger, have lived and learned -I will not repeat my family's history nor look for such grand qualities in another, I know I am worth more.
I must say I really enjoy reading the personal insight and thoughts you bring here. You appear so strong and bring a lot of food for thought with all your shares.
From one Leo to another. I see your independent streak and support your right to question things. I would probably class myself as a loner like to make my decisions based on what I think sits right. I am in a different situation to many of you here in that I live in a small town with no al-anon program not even sure what your face to face meetings entail. I have chosen to meet with a Drug and Alcohol counsellor on a one to one basis and for me this is a start to the healing process. I have also ordered the book getting them sober as advised by Tom. I understand where you are coming from, with an A this is a life time committment. You either choose to put up with it or not. Do we have the right to have serenity and peace without all the b/s? Yes. I am not religious but I would class myself as spiritual in that I believe in after life, guardian angels etc. I have learnt through this board to surrender to HP. I usually do it when I am having self doubt and hand it over. It takes my focus off the stressful situation even if it is just temporarily. You know everyone has their own breaking point we do not have to accept everything in life with blind faith. Sometimes the Leo loyalty can be our greatest downfall. Luv Leo xx
I want to thank each of you who replied to my post. I love to "keep you on your toes" by sharing my different viewpoints, and I always enjoy the lively discussion which ensues. This post was not intended to offend; rather to offer another perspective. I do not see Al Anon as a list of chipped in stone commandments, but as a program from which we can all "take what we want and leave the rest." I feel we must attempt to know and understand each individual before assigning all-inclusive feelings or failings. Each of us is unique, and each brings to the table separate sets of circumstances which should be regarded on a case-by-case basis.
I wish all of you a good day today, and I send fondest regards to everyone. Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
). I welcome the different points of view. They keep me on my toes and challenged. For that, I thank all of you.