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In a previouse post someone had posted that the best thing to do was apologize and not expect an apology in return. That is was a loving thing to do, to forgive without being asked to.
Here is a big problem of mine. I seem to be expected to apologize for everything. If my husband and his parents had their way, I would accept responsibility for every problem in the world.
My husband will act childish and refuse to talk to me, interupt everything I say, even cover his ears, saying, "I don't hear you, not until you say you are sorry."
They repeatedly say I need anger management. That I am not supposed to ever react to stress, or raise my voice. I have worked on my temper. I am not as quick to react, though my husband frequently has called me filthy names , or puts me down, using the excuse that it a joke, don't I have a sence of humor. I have told him jokes are supposed to be funny, not hurtful.
No matter what happens, I am expected to apologize. It does not matter if I wasn't even there. In fact then it is my fault because I wasn't present, and I should apologize for it.
I can admitt when I am wrong. In all the years we have been together, if he has said I am sorry twice it's a lot. He says he doesn't have to. When I ask why, he says "Because I'm me." His parents agree with this and tell me so.
He has done horrible things, and yes I would be willing to put them in the past if he would acknowledge that they where wrong.
One thing I can't let go of, is while I was having an emergency C-section two years ago, he left the hospital to go drink. The baby and I where in danger and he didn't know what the outcome would be. He was there when I woke up, but the nurse went to find him to get consent to tie my tubes as I am not permitted to have any more children becasue of the danger it would pose. The nurse couldn't find him, or reach him by cell phone, he was off drinking, so they did not do it. He nust have known it was wrong of him to leave, as he lied to me about it and it wasn't until the Dr explained it to me that I found out. His answer was well "sh*t happens". His parents told him he did nothing wrong, that he should not be held responsible for my problems and he accepts that as gospel.
I know it is the past, but it has come up as I will have to go back in for the procedure, my Dr reccomends it. I know he will not apologize for it, but it still hurts that he believes he did nothing wrong, and adds that he must be right since his parents agree with him.
He never admitts he was wrong, but I should say I'm sorry a thousand times a day.
This might seem petty, but when you hurt someone yes, we should offer forgiveness, but I believe people should at least admitt that they know they are wrong, something he never is willing to do. His drinking, his DWI's, his job loss, his health loss, our financial problems, the fact that he doesn't get to see the kids often, all of this according to him and his parents is my fault, and I should beg forgiveness for it. That will not happen. Forgiveness is one thing, but when a person continues to find ways to hurt you, isn;t turning the other cheek a form of self abuse? if you keep turning the other cheek, you can get whiplash.
It is one think to apologize when we are wrong, but if we apologize to often to an active A, aren't we adding the the delusion that they are alwasy right? Isn't that enabling?
It sounds to me as if his parents are way too active in your lives and he seeks approval through them. Why should they be condoning, or knowing anything for that matter? Your A may need them to back up his insecurities and they need him so they can ride that river of de-nile to assure themselves he doesn't have a problem
I suppose you can either choose to put up some boundaries and not give in to the manipulation, or keep playing their game. It's hard either way. Standing your ground takes courage and strength, but eventually people see that your boundaries don't bend :)
Christy.
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
You are only responsible for taking your own personal inventory. Your husband and his parents do not have a right to take it for you. Maybe you should set some boundaries when it comes to these matters. If you have not done anything wrong then why should you should apoligize. In raising my four sons, I have always taught them that when they say they are sorry, it should be "I'm sorry for ___________ (whatever they had done wrong) I also use this in my life, that way I am not consently apoligizing for the sake of others. Don't worry about your A not apoligizing, they have a hard time doing that because then it would make them accountable for their actions and not be able to blame someone else. Hang in there. Say the Serenity Prayer, it helps lots when things are tough.
It is one think to apologize when we are wrong, but if we apologize to often to an active A, aren't we adding the the delusion that they are alwasy right? Isn't that enabling?
Absolutely, in my opinion.... The manipulative part of their disease will have us apologizing for, and taking on, THEIR stuff. The healthy alternative is always to take personal accountability for OUR actions, and OUR behaviors.... This line can easily get clouded, and we need to find where OUR line is on this, at times....
Making amends, as opposed to apologizing, is something that I have strived for.... When I do something wrong, or outside of the behaviors that I want to exhibit, or fall far off my recovery program - my first goal is always to make amends.... Perhaps to the person, and certainly as a way of being accountable to myself. The main difference between 'making amends' and 'apologizing', is that when we apologize - we say we are sorry (sometimes we even mean it, lol). When we 'make amends', we acknowledge our behavior, and make a commitment to learning from this, and planning to not repeat it.... It is much more a matter of personal accountability, to ourselves, than it is to "make amends" to the alcoholic....
Just my perspective on this.... apologizing to active A's is an effort in futility, IMHO
Take care
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Making amends vs apologizing has always been a confusing point for me. My sponsor has told me that making amends means to "make it right". This means I'm taking responsibility for my behavior. I can't take it back, but I can do better from this point forward. I strive to "keep my side of the street clean", as is often said in my meetings. In your case, it sounds like your husband and his family are trying to get you to clean their side of the street.
You can't erase anything that has happened, but you can ask yourself going forward, when you're in a situation where you're being asked to apologize, "Is this my side of the street or theirs?" A good friend in the chat room once emailed me a picture of a woman swinging in a hula hoop, and the caption was a reminder that what's inside the hoop is her responsibility, and what's outside the hoop is none of her business. It helps me to visualize it that way. Taking on what's not yours to handle is enabling, I agree with you. Hard not to do sometimes, especially when it's presented in a back-door kind of way...
Good luck (((jeannie))) I'll keep you in my prayers.
AJeannie, apologizing for that which we did not cause is not the thing to do. Jeannie, I don't mean to offend, but your A and his family all sound like a bunch of whackos!! Sounds to me like the whole lot of them are trying to DRIVE you to anger management. That's crazy! And yes, as far as I am concerned, taking the hit for everything that goes wrong is enabling. No confusion there. Love to you, Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
i know when i first worked step 4 , i thought my messed up life was ALL my fault, with the exception of my abusive father, i figured i was the source of the wrong
but then i worked STEP 4 AGAIN!!!!! and AGAIN!!!!! and by the time i got to the 8th and 9th steps, i was pretty accurate WHEN i owed an apology and when i did not....if i have checked my inventory and i don't owe??? i don't pay!!!!!! my X used to do the same thing to me....i won't *>>>>>>>>>>>* till you say your sorry....i got fed up with apologizing for stuff i did not do and i told him, "well i guess i better go to eat myself, cause i am not apologizing when i am not guilty" and i began doing that....he couldn't bully me anymore and he quit doing that......also there are people when i did step 9, who hurt me WAY more than i did them, in fact my wrongs were *retaliation* for their initial hurting me.....so i made AMENDS!!!! i addressed what i did....and i basically said to them (big sister is the one i am thinking of here) anyway, i just said to her "i know i did xxxxx and xxxxxxxx and i know that was wrong, and i take responsibility for it" thats ALL......no "i'm sorry" no *sucking up* i just confessed MY side of the street....even though MY side has WAY less leaves/debris than hers did....AND, to boot....she never reciprocated , but i still was the free one.....
there have been people in my life who have used that "say your sorry" crap to bully me, to belittle me, to put me down, and i dont *go there* and i say that!!!! "i am not going there, my inventory is ok right NOW"..... no anger, no raising my voice...no getting excited about it and it would stop........if the *bully* gets a rise out of me???? he keeps it up......if i don't react with all kinds of emotion???? he gets bored and quits.......please take what works, and leae the rest....rosie .
I find that with my A I sometimes have to set tinie winie boundaries to protect myself. Like I will answer the phone on the 4th ring or I will tell him that I can't talk right now. It may not seem like much but he is very manipulative as yours sounds. It seems that only way to protect myself because he definitely seems to have all the power.
This is a circumstance where I would repeatedly call upon the assistance of a sponsor. I have been told by both my sponsors that I am not to apologize or make other personal amends without first discussing it with them. They have made this a rule because I frequently apologize in a misguided effort to people please, rather than because I have actual personal responsibility for a situation.In situations where I absolutely do have responsibility, if left to my own devices I find I will gladly and adamently wait for a cold day in hell before I will give anyone the satisfaction of admitting I'd been wrong.
My suggestion is to do the thing that helped me learn and grow the most: if you do not have a sponsor, find one. Choose who has worked the steps and who uses a sponsor herself. If you already have a sponsor, try consulting them before making any more apologies. And work the steps in order, I made the mistake of skipping to 9 a few times prematurely and it leaves more to clean up.
I do not apologize any longer. In fact it has made it almost impossible to communicate with my husband in any productive way. Not that you can productively communicate with some who is drinking anyway. He and his parents have decided that I am the one with the problem, that I am the one who needs help and will not take responsibility for my actions.
He infuriates me because he will call, say he wants to talk, then says are you ready to admitt you where wrong, when I say no, he says thats it I'm done talking and hangs up. Other times he says are you ready to apologize to my parents for making them pay bills or will I put some money in the bank for him, when I say no he calls me a bitch and hangs up. Then other times he says I will go into rehab if you admitt it is all your fault. I say no, I will not take blame for something I didn't do. Then his parents call and tell me why can't I just admitt I was wrong, that I am being stubborn. They do a lot of talking to my machine as I do not pick up often. It is like dealing with a very nasty child and two total lunatics.
I do have a sponsor, I have for some time. She is wonderful and she has guided me through my amends. Most times I cannot make amends to him or his parents even for the things I should, as they would twist it horribly.
The time is coming quickly when I wil have to make more permanent arrangements, but I am not ready yet. As much as I try and detach from them all, they continue to throw me. They seem to sence when I amhaving a bad time and feed on my weakness like a hawk to blood.
i totally understand what your going through. my a has the same ignorant attitude that yours does as well as his family, somehow it's always our fault. i think my a turns everything around on me to make himself feel better because he feels guilty for what he does to me. so if i get mad and say mean things back then he feels better as if i deserve what he did to me in the first place. it's all mind games and i hate it. i think it's time to play the same games with them.
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stay in the now...dont look forward, dont look back....your life is what you make of it
Jeez what a mess! They sound like they are very manipulative and totally clueless. I am so sorry you are dealing with this. This is exactly the situation I fear when I leave my husband. All the harassment it involves. It is easy to say don't answer the phone but sometimes then they just show up at your door. It's not an easy situation to deal with.
I hope you can have some fun with your kids today, that is what i am planning to do.
