How to deal with the lying? - Al-Anon Family Group

danyell · Newbie

How to deal with the lying?

tommyecat · ~*Service Worker*~

To answer your question, yes. It has been my experience that expectations are premeditated resentments. When I finally accepted that it was in my AH's best interest to lie, then I became free from the anger, frustration, and hurt. Then the question became, so what am I going to do? I realized that I have choices that I did not have to put up with unacceptable behavior. Finding out what part I played in the whole process was key for me in recovery.

Thank you for your post this evening. I do so hope you will continue to share.

Best,

Tommye

Mlkiss75 · Veteran Member

In my experience with my ah, the lying was so bad it sometimes became comical. I wrap it up into the disease - he's not a bad guy, the disease is just that evil. I've learned to stop asking him if he's been drinking - I can almost always tell when he has. When he drinks, I find something else to do with myself. Fortunately for me, for the most part my ah doesn't drink outside of my home - no embarrassing social events or scenes in public. He NEVER drinks in front if me. So I just focus on me, how I am feeling, not on him letting me down again. This disease isn't about me. He had it long before I met him. I try to lessen his pain and shame by not harping on it. I also know that trying to speak to my ah when he's drunk is like trying to talk to an alien from another planet who doesn't understand words, facial expressions or hand gestures. Getting angry or frustrated at him just makes me feel worse, certainly not better, and makes the crappy experience last longer. I have stopped relying so much on what my ah says and focus more on what he does. This is better for us both because I do not get lied to an he is less often in a position to feel compelled to lie to me, which just results in him feeling ashamed and guilty. Good luck with your situation. I wish you all the best.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

yes it is a symptom of being an addict. Remember their brains are not normal when they are drinking. It causes damage.

They honestly believe their lies. They don't know its a lie. Of course you are right, they are gravely sick and insane.

Its very serious. They can be on the floor, cannot get up and swear they did not drink. It is very frustrating and hard to believe they are that much in denial.

Just like the rest of the symptoms, we cannot control it, it is none of our business. If we choose to stay, we accept them as is. We can put together boundaries we need, and consequences that we carry thru with.

But honestly what he or she does is their business. I know it affects us,so we have to decide what is best for us. Can we live with it or not, as you're not going to change them.We can only change us.

Of course he drinks, he is an addict, its NO surprise! Well hon what we are until we learn the truths and believe them is ignorant. It means we don't know.

In Al anon we learn to stay on our path, allow them the dignity to stay on theirs and hope we can have some precious time together.

I was a pea in the pod with my sweetheart big time. We were bonded since we were young kids.

I learned to be with him drunk, sober whatever. I loved his presence. But the brain damage from brain surgery made him physically violent, so it had to end.

Honestly you can learn to love him as is. Don't expect anything,. Be glad when he is there with you. this disease gets so much worse, the more time ya get where you can be around him, the more precious it is.

I would love one day with my husband. But the disease totally took him away. I gleaned every moment with him no matter what. if it got too much I just did my own thing like it was part of us,not for revenge or anything, I would go in my room and read and watch tv, just simple stuff.

Its hard to face, they are VERY sick honey! We can expect NOTHING from them. Not money, not the truth, not support when you are sick,nothing. What I did was love every tiny moment I had with him no matter what.

If he had cancer in his brain you would think of it differently. I invite you to think of it like that. Believe he has a terminal disease and you nor he can control it. That does not mean he won't decide to go on a program of recovery. But we need to accept them as is.

Please keep coming, vent. It will help. love,debilyn who misses that naked man in my bed and his slippers by mine

wifeofalcoholic · Senior Member

I can relate to your experiences as if I was writing them and can relate to each reply you received. That helps us feel that we are indeed not going crazy. That is a horrible emotion to go through. I went through it for years.

I guess I can add one bit of wisdom that was shared to me by an Al-Anon member, "don't ask questions that you already know the answers to." It is a tough behavior to learn; we seem to want to confront by asking the question, get an honest answer and then be done with it. However, it doesn't even change things. My AH and I have been to many counselors and agreed that he would not lie, but I agree with all the others on this board that it is part of their brain, part of their personality when they are drinking. My AH would never lie to me about anything else or to anyone else, but when he has drank, he's not even my husband.

Being lied to by our spouses is so hurtful, right down to the core of our beings. I'm sorry you are going through this and hope that you can find some recovery in others posts.

danyell · Newbie

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! You guys are amazing on here. I don't have to feel alone as i did for so many years before. I draw so much strength from your support and encouragement. It gives me a new perspective of how to look at things. The bottom line is that I love him with all my heart and I know he loves me the same. I have to learn to seperate him from the disease. I am a type A, like to be in control kinda gal. So i have to work extra hard to accept what I can't change and just support him through this. I have to re-wire my thinking around it. But it is worth it. Thank you again to all of you!

hawaiilover · Senior Member

The lies, betrayals, stealing, manipulating, controlling, users, self-centered, etc. All these are part of the addict's behavior. I belong to another support group here online and alcoholics share about their experience, strength, and hope. They get honest. I love it because I learn about As behavior from them. Also, going to open AA meetings and Speaker meetings helps me understand who and what I am dealing with. Now, when I see the behavior, I am not surprised. It is part of the equation--it is a package deal. If you have time, learn about alcoholism and how it affects the mind and behavior.

http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/

This website is invaluable in providing information about addiction. Please, take the time to read some of the post. It has lots and lots of information.

Best wishes,

Hawaii

White Rabbit · ~*Service Worker*~

There were times that my AH was so sincere when he said something (like, "I won't drink anymore") and I KNEW he meant it. He was sincere and wanted to follow through. But he has a disease, and at the end of the day many days, he simply wasn't able to follow through. I got hurt and angry because I felt lied to - but it wasn't personal. He couldn't follow through with his own promises. That had nothing to do with me. He wasn't doing anything TO me, but I sure did take it personally.

Part of the disease of alcoholism is lying. It's not personal, and it's not something they do TO us, they just DO it. We can avoid being hurt and angry when we stop listening to the words and relying on promises and watch actions instead ... and when we have no expectations.

Keep coming back!

Summer

Bettina · ~*Service Worker*~

If you suspect that they have been drinking then, why ask??? They live in their denial and we want to live in ours.

If we want to continue to live with the alcoholic we must learn the art of detaching, as long as we keep asking them if they are drinking, we are not
progressing and living in the shadows of their disease.

We must get out from under it and quit making the alcoholic the center of our lives. They will always continue to tell us what they think we want to
hear.Because we really dont understand their struggle and can never walk in their shoes. Only another alcoholic can understand this puzzling disease.

Practice letting go and the anziety of living with the disease will subside. If we dont learn these tools , we will continue to suffer along with them.

Build your own path. Let the alcoholic travel his.

Luv, Bettina

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

Bettina wrote:

If you suspect that they have been drinking then, why ask??? They live in their denial and we want to live in ours.

If we want to continue to live with the alcoholic we must learn the art of detaching, as long as we keep asking them if they are drinking, we are not
progressing and living in the shadows of their disease.

We must get out from under it and quit making the alcoholic the center of our lives. They will always continue to tell us what they think we want to
hear.Because we really dont understand their struggle and can never walk in their shoes. Only another alcoholic can understand this puzzling disease.

Practice letting go and the anziety of living with the disease will subside. If we dont learn these tools , we will continue to suffer along with them.

Build your own path. Let the alcoholic travel his.

Luv, Bettina

For me, every word rings true. Thanks for your post and thanks to Bettina for responding.

Cloudsea · Veteran Member

Danyell:

The answer is yes. I too am married to an A. He is now sober. Your post could be my story. My A exhibited a lot of odd behaviors, some of which could mimic depression and anxiety and others that looked like the more traditional drinking symptoms. I would ask over and over if he had been drinking. He would say no, and I would believe it. When he finally accepted that he is an A, the realization that he had lied to me repeatedly was devastating to me.

With the help of Al Anon, I have learned not to ask what I already know. They will likely deny drinking, and you will be hurt because you know it's a lie. Or, if they tell the truth, it doesn't make you feel any better -- probably worse. I also have learned to trust my instincts. I know when something is "off" in his behavior, and I know when the "off" is from drinking. I don't need someone else (him) to validate what I already know.

At those times (when his mood is "off" whether drinking or not), I put some distance between us and do my own thing. Set up a massage, go work out, eat out with the kids, whatever. Just something to put the focus on me, not him.

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

I go back to what an addiction counselor said to myself and my AH, how do you know if an addict is lying? their lips are moving. The reality is just like everyone has said it is part of the disease. They can't help themselves, it's the shame, guilt and fear.

The biggest step forward I made was to stop asking questions I already knew the answers to. I do not need to be validated by him to know what my own truth is. By stopping the questioning, I found I stopped feeling so out of control, I trusted my own truth and my HP. I don't know what my motivation was for continuing to ask questions I knew the truth to outside of the fact I wanted to be wrong. I desperately wanted him to make me believe him. I would have rather believed my imagination was playing tricks on me than deal with the reality of his illness.

nice4ever · Member

Danyell,

you ask: Do all alcoholics lie?? ... Does it ever really stop.

Well, never say never, but for me it's 25 years and counting.

I like many of the replies, I see that I'll need to do a lot less of the question asking trying to catch him in a lie; as I guess it just doesn't accomplish anything good. But I keep coming back and asking silly questions.

good luck on your end Danyell.

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

@nice4ever don't beat yourself up about asking the questions. No one said it was easy not to ask. I have imaginary blood that runs down my lip from biting it so hard as to stop myself and then there are days I slip. The thing is if you are willing to be willing to try, it's a small step forward in recovery. The more you practice the easier it will get. Be gentle with yourself because you deserve the same kindness and consideration we are encouraged to give others. Hugs :)

AshleyMarie647 · Newbie

Pushka. I can so relate to what you said. I ask, knowing he truth and that he'll lie, just because i am holding on to hope that he will be honest and prove me wrong. I believed him when he was so serious about his recovery after this last 2 months in rehab. He was back at the bar within days. I just caught him at the bar with another woman when he said he ws still at work and I was at home with his son waiting for him to come home. He now wont get a chace to see his son bc his son goes home in the morning and he still tried to convince me he wasnt out drinking when I had a picture and video of him. I know its the disease but at what point is it a choice to not try to arrest the behaviors and stay away from triggers?

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Ashley .. something alanon gave to me was keep the focus on me .. the addict is going to do what they are going to do .. they will drink or not .. however what are YOU going to do. I could stay stuck and continue to obsess over the why's of what he does or I could get busy and get better. I hope you are attending meetings because you deserve to get better regardless of what the A is or isn't doing. Big hugs and keep coming back. S :)

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

We often hear in the rooms of alanon...it is very easy to know when the alcoholic/addict is lying...you know it because their lips are moving. Truth in jest.

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

He is "gaslighting" you -- deflecting away from his guilt, what he did, and shifting it and turning it around and making everything your fault, about what you did. It is nothing but manipulation, denial, deflecting, bullying, and yes, more lying!

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

There is another slogan in the rooms of alanon...Nothing changes if nothing changes...and that slogan is about YOU. Not the alcoholic. YOU. Think about that and what that means to YOU and for YOU.

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

Also...while Step One is about acceptance...alanon is not a program that teaches you to accept unacceptable behavior. It is not a program that teaches you how to tolerate the intolerable. It is not a program that teaches you how to bear the unbearable.

Acceptance is not simply about accepting everything and doing nothing about it. Alanon is a program about YOU, for YOU, and is a program of change -- change in YOU, for YOU, about YOU, changes YOU can make in your thinking, actions, reactions, mindset, philosophy, thought-process, and so much more. Notice how none of this is about HIM? It is all about YOU. Focus on YOU.

Go to face to face meetings. As many and as often as you can. Find a sponsor. Start working with him/her, start talking to him/her. Start doing the work. You can and will get better. All the best.

Maresie888 · ~*Service Worker*~

I think detachment is a really big skill. It takes so much practice Detaching from the alcoholic is a big workout every day I have had to change my expectations around certain people. My younger sister lives east sleeps denial. Denial is a huge part of alcoholism Detaching is a way not to be triggered. One way alcoholics survive is by becoming incredibly manipulative. They turn it all on you. Ask them to answer to their issues it becomes all about you putting them in a precarious place Living with an alcoholic is like walking in eggshells. You never know what is next This rollercoaster is hard to manage on your own. Dive deep into th he program. Engrave the tools. The tools will show you the way through navigating seriously treacherous waters Maresie

Jen61 · ~*Service Worker*~

The lying for me was so hard to take. I feel your pain.

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi, I see you're getting great responses...and YES!!! in my experience, they mostly LIE and LIE all the time....Funny, tho, as I say this, I have an alcoholic brother, my best male buddy and HES honest!!! I mean really!!! he doesn't lie to me about anything, his drinking, how many he drank the night before, how long he was on a binge...oh yea, its amazing, but for the MOST part, When their lips are moving, chances are its a lie..or some kind of rationalization for their behavior...I can't stand being around folks who abuse substances...I like a couple of beers on Friday night with my mates or by myself, listening to my tunes, and then? I have to EAT!! and go to bed...i do it to relax and unwind...this past 2 years, has been horrid....so yea, I do like a couple of cold ones, but , and I thank my HP, I never got hooked on the stuff, most of the time, the 2nd one goes down the sink because I get tired of it and want my food.....my Alcoholic brother is the only honest alcoholic I've ever seen....

PosiesandPuppies · ~*Service Worker*~

I learned that there is teeth behind the saying in the rooms... "How do you know when an addict/alcoholic is lying? When their lips are moving!"

The lying and the gaslighting was the real killer of my marriage.

Wishing you clarity of thought today.

&

Bo · ~*Service Worker*~

My sponsor used to ask me...How important is it? Whatever it was -- lying, drinking, being antagonistic, confrontational, belligerent, whatever...How important is it? BUT -- HE ALSO SAID -- DO NOT allow yourself to blindly just say IT is not important, and I have to accept IT. You don't. In my experience we do not have to collapse acceptance with accepting unacceptable behavior. If we simply accept something, that is unacceptable, and he justify and rationalize it as being NOT that important...IS THAT DENIAL? Is that accepting unacceptable behavior? For me, it was!

I don't care if the alcoholic is living in denial. I do NOT want to.

I chose to stay and live with an alcoholic. It doesn't matter why. I chose to. Now, if all the reasons were me being in denial -- shame on me! That's my problem. So, I did that. I ended up back where I started which was...if she just stopped _________________ then everything would be fine. If she didn't __________________ then we would be fine, happy, etc.

If we want to continue to live with an alcoholic then we must have the tools and resources to help ourselves, we must want to get and be healthy. We are playing the cards we chose to play. They were dealt, we may or may not have taken a few more cards...but that is what we chose!

Tha alcoholic will continue to do what they want to do -- and they will tell us whatever it is that will allow them and make it OK -- for them to keep doing what they want to do. Period.

If we don't do what we need to do in order for us to be healthy -- then we will continue to suffer.

Pain is inevitable...BUT...suffering is optional.

Maresie888 · ~*Service Worker*~

I believe I lied to myself too in my denial. I would downplay the chaos and confusion I.also had this idea the more I invested of myself the better it would get. I really bought into the loyalty The ex A was also expert at playing me off against other people, his mother, his friends, the neighbors Alcoholics learn how to be very manipulative These days I have limits lots and lots of limits. I honor my limits There were no limits when I was with the alcoholic it was one long saga of coping I know what my limits are these days with. Coping. That being said I have plenty of dysfunction in my life. It us by no means plain salimg it is lots of challenges. When I was with the alcoholic it wasn't struggling it was being drowned a great deal of the time. Al.anon was o e way to stay afloat in fact I think it was the only one to stay afloat. Maresie

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