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Hi All, I'm new here and this is my first post. I thought I needed to solicit opinions from seasoned Al Anoners regarding my level of involvement with my substance abusing (opiates, alcohol, Valium, etc) 27 year old son. He came out of his first rehab in mid-May after hitting what I thought was bottom (sick and tired and seemed truly to want to change) and promptly relapsed. Then, he seemed to make some progress, went to a few meetings, started group therapy, went on Suboxone (which he has gone off of now) and since he had nowhere to live, etc I paid his rent for a few months, and other expenses while he looked for a better job than the one he went back to, which barely paid anything and was part time. Now, he has been fired from a second job and is despondent and staying with a married couple in another town an hour away where he went for the last failed job, (and are not addicts but do drink some). He has been to no AA or NA meetings since he moved there several months ago and is showing signs of decline. I am still paying his car ins., meds, and phone, which he recently abused by going behind our backs to buy a new iPhone and extend our contract without asking. He had been on our phone plan for awhile and paid us his share ($40 a month) occasionally but never regularly and now not at all. I feel angry and want to cancel him and my wife (his step-mom) wants to, but as a Dad I somehow feel the phone is his lifeline and without it he would not be able to seek out his doctors, prescriptions, and other support that may keep him from suicide. He loves the gadget and uses it for everything including educational applications. He has no credit and with a pay as you go plan I would never be able to contact him nor would he ever have a working phone most likely.
Is this generosity on my part misguided and considered enabling and should I stop paying for everything and let him flounder (and lose his vehicle without the ins)? He seemed to be making progress there for awhile with my supports in place and now pulling them out might cause him to die I worry. He is plenty suicidal. I know the Al Anon guidelines and things on enabling say don't provide any monetary support but in other Al Anon groups I have posed this question and other parents often tell me I am doing right by offering certain supports, as long as he is doing something toward recovery. Problem is, I don't really know if he is or if he is just masquerading recovery to get my supports. If it was your kid what would you do? Thanks very much
All tough questions, and there is often not a true "black & white" answer when it comes to these things... I would venture that you are, indeed, giving him an awfully soft landing, for any 27-year old - I mean, why should he grow up and take responsibility for being an adult, if his parents are paying all his bills, etc.... Once again, I'm not walking in your shoes, so only you can really truly know what is healthy and what is not.... One of the better definitions of enabling is when we "do something for our A that they have the ability to do for themselves, and doesn't allow them to reap the consequences of their behavior"...
I would encourage you to read a great book - entitled "Getting Your Children Sober", written by Toby Rice Drews. She is an expert in the field, and gives out hundreds of very useful and practical ways to deal with alcoholic children.
Glad you found us, and please keep coming back
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Aloha Paul...The very simplest response I learned during my journey in Al-Anon was (to my alcoholic/addict wife and others) "What does the rehab program direct you to do and what does your sponsor and program direct you to do?" That is where he life change is and his first responsibility. One of the answers to your question is the question "What is my part in this or what responsibilities am I interfering with by doing it for him/her/them..." I was taught by an early sponsor a formula kinda, sorta for determining if what I was doing was helping or enabling. "I they have the time, the ability and the facility to get their needs met and I step in and provide it for them I am enabling. If they lack anyone of those three....and....they ask for help, that is helping. I need to not just jump at it but to slow down and use that formula and patience, time, faith, trust, humility and the other tools in order to be truely helpful otherwise I'm carrying not helping.
To Canadianguy- yes, it seems to be up to each person to determine what 'works' for them, and do what is healthy. But there are two kinds of 'healthy' I guess: healthy for him in terms of giving but not enabling, and/or healthy for me as a Dad, to feel I am doing something to give him a leg up when I see him trying and struggling even if some of it is manipulation. Some have told me that I can justify the giving if I do it for myself if I need to, even if it is not the textbook thing to do. But this would seem somewhat misguided, if that is what the giving amounted to, serving my own need as a parent and not addressing what is best for his recovery.
And to JerryF, in terms of the helping/enabling formula.. do they have the time, ability, and facility to get their own needs met? This is good.. except that here we get into the question of Ability- does he have the ability to work a full time job and not be fired? I don't know.. is it he CAN'T or he WON'T kind of thing. I have talked to many parents who have swooped in to help the minute they get some kind of medical diagnosis on their A kids.. oh, now that we know they are bipolar, for example, they have a REAL ILLNESS and CAN'T do for themselves.. so we can do so much more for them with a clear conscience even though they are still using illicit drugs and not doing their recovery work. My son's arrogance, intolerance, impatience, laziness, dishonesty, and selfish attitude always get him in trouble with any job he gets- so is it Can't support himself or Won't because he refuses to work Step 4 and look at his own shortcomings and try to address them? I guess it is up to me to decide can't or won't.. and go accordingly. I do believe he could support himself if he would humbly take a low level job and stick to some kind of recovery program. But this has not happened. Guess there is no easy answer to any of this!
Another thing I learned was to know the "who" I was talking about...my wife or my alcoholic. When the alcoholic was present I stopped enabling and when my wife was present (sober and recovering) I was more supportive and didn't need to worry as much about her. You seem able to "do the math" or as I learned listen with my eyes and make decisions with hindsight. Good for you!! take it slow and "Don't React" (my most favorite slogan). You have a handle on the difference twix can't and won't and that is a sanity tool. Knowing and holding on to that difference will be good for you also as you apply it yourself. I used I won't...alot when I stopped enabling and still do today. When I can't it is often about ability, facility or time.
I too have an alcoholic son in which his phone is on my cell phone plan. I have been very clear with my son about payment of his portion of the bill. I have suspended his phone on 2 occasions when he lost his job due to disease. While it is difficult to cut off the mode of contact it was a necessary move. Yes there was a fair amount of whining & threats etc but I stayed strong. My son is still active but he also knows that I will not accept his behavior. He knows that he cannot use manipulation techniques on our household with any success.
I had to ask the hard questions of myself that you are asking yourself. For me my sponsor made it very clear and it made sense to me "If your son needs to call a Dr, a pharmacy, a sponsor, a parent etc he can use a house phone, borrow a cell phone, or find a pay phone. These are his options." It was difficult but I did it.
Letting him go and detaching with love were the hardest things to do with my son but I know that my doing so may save his life someday.
Karen
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Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. Love you all!
Karen
Glad you found us. What I would like to say first I am as well a mom of a son with an addiction problem. I was also a wife of an alcoholic, addict.
There are two different roles we play in each of these situation. When it is our child that is hurting it kills us to think they may be suffering and we just want them to be ok.
I have thought for awhile that my son had a problem and now I know he does. I took his car, he no longer has transportation to get high that I provide. I turned off his phone he can no longer find drugs on my dime. He is 18 just graduated in June and still doesn't have a job. Why? well why should he I paid his ins, I paid his car payment, I paid his cell phone bill and gave him money when he asked for it. He was always going looking for a job or something that would convince me he needed money. Well I got wise. As you notice I said paid. I will no longer enable him. I will not pay one bill for him. He is on his own because if I keep enableing him he may never get it. I want my son to live. If you are afraid he will committe suicide seriously you can get help for him thru mental health in your area.
My thoughts are we have to learn to crawl before we can walk....have you truely given your son this opportunity? He wanted an i-phone but did he need it? He needs to call his dr. pre pay phones work for that and why does he need these drs? Addicts are the best con artist God has put on this earth....they can lie and con you right out of your underwear.
Please get help for yourself, al anon can help you get thru this and let you know you are not alone. There are many of us out here suffering with the same heart ache of addiction.
Welcome my friend welcome, please keep coming back.......come into the meetings we have or just come into chat when you need to talk...Where there is life there is hope.
I really have to say, with Alcoholics/Addicts, where there's a will there's a way to getting what they WANT. That means should you decide to remove him from your phone plan, he WILL find another means of contact (especially if he's a fancy gadget lover).
If there is any one "instruction manual" in Al-Anon, it comes from the pamphlet on Detachment:
IN AL-ANON WE LEARN: ˇ Not to suffer because of the actions or reactions of other people ˇ Not to allow ourselves to be used or abused by others in the interest of anothers recovery ˇ Not to do for others what they can do for themselves ˇ Not to manipulate situations so others will eat, go to bed, get up, pay bills, not drink, or behave as we see fit ˇ Not to cover up for anothers mistakes or misdeeds ˇ Not to create a crisis ˇ Not to prevent a crisis if it is in the natural course of events ˇ By learning to focus on ourselves, our attitudes and well-being improve. We allow the alcoholics in our lives to experience the consequences of their own actions.
Please get yourself and our wife (if she's open to the idea) to some Al-Anon meetings. There is support and help and understanding in those rooms.
I have two views on this since I am a Mom with a 13 and 8 year old sons and a girlfriend of an A.
As a mom, I know that I have to give my sons the tools they need as they grow to learn to take care of themselves. I have my 13 year old doing things that his responsibility level can handle like washing dishes, watching his little brother for a couple of hours and doing his own laundry etc.... My 8 year old sets the table, cleans his toys up, makes his bed to the best of his ability and feeds the cats.
My bf however, has never seemed to really have to do much of that. His parents allowed him to live with them til he was 30. He was never required to pay rent or anything. When he got an addiction to oxycontin, his mom covered for him by taking over his checking account and paying all his bills on time for him. They bailed him out of jail for a DUI charge. They saved and saved and saved him. Even now while he is staying with me, his mom is constantly checking his cell phone records for phone calls, his bank account records for what money he has spent where and is harrassing him when she finds something she doesn't like. Because she has done all this, she is VERY resentful and is always very mean or very passive aggressive to him. She feeds into his disease and gets back what she feeds in. She is also an Adult Child of an alcoholic so she has been trying to save all her life.
In my experience, my bf's parents "helping" him so often has probably made it so that he keeps using. He has had no one say "you are on your own now, you are an adult." I have told my son that when he is done with high school he is getting a job or going to college. If he intends to live with me at that point, he will pay rent and help out with house hold chores even more. No one did this for my ABF. All I am saying is let your son be an adult now. My parents have never helped me with any of that stuff. If I wanted a cell phone, I had to get it on my own. If I wanted car insurance, I paid for it. If I wanted a car, I paid for it and if I want anything, its on me. I too suffer from depression and suicidal thoughts and I am 35 and my parents don't do for me as you are doing for your son. They have detached from me with love and I am glad they have. I am sure your son would fight you on this, but eventually he will see that you loved him even as you gave him his own life to handle. Take care of you now. That is what Alanon is for. Blessings!
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You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection. -Buddha
The past has flown away. The coming month and year do not exsist. Ours only is the present's tiny point. -Mahmud Shabistanri
From my experience, and from being here for so many years, I have come to the belief we should never "help" the A. Our child or spouse or friend does not matter, the disease is a disease, who they are to us does not change that.
Anything we do to make the A comfortable, enables the disease to be comfortable too. It takes away the power from the person to take care of things themselves.
When we are hungry we feed ourselves, when we need shelter we find it. When we need to buy needs we seek work.
If an outsider "gives" this to us, we don't take the energy to do it! My son used to get mad at me for doing things for him. As it was saying to him he could not do it on his own.
So when we help the A we love, we are saying to them, we do not believe you can do it.
You said it yourself, I don't know if he can get a full time job. Of course he can. He has to get hungry enough, cold enough, needy enough to do it!
Many NEED to get sick, cold, hungry, to be able to pull themselves up and say that is enough of this. They know where AA is, they know where shelters are. They always are crafty enough to find their drugs.
When we do anything, we take away the possibilities they have to find for themselves.
AA is tough, those people have lived it. They know babying is the first mistake their loved ones do. The illness LOVES it when we do for it.
It is shocking how many A's live with their parents until their parents die or have to go to a nursing home.
We are not doing them any favors by doing anything for them. It is hard to face! I have been there.
They can figure it out! Allow them the integrity they can find in themselves if we stop making the disease comfortable.
I believe strongly in this. I have never, ever in my life see an A go into a "strong" personal recovery with anyone giving it to them!
They have to KNOW they can depend on themselves and learn they can do it on their own! When we take that away, WE are making them sicker.
I have always said it is the hardest when it is our kids. We believe in nurturing them. Sadly when one is born an Addict, they need the opposite of what we want to give.
I believe in giving the A the chance to grow up and take care of themselves. As far as can they do it, of course they can.
I worked with special Ed for 18 years and saw people who could barely read or write carry jobs. fulltime jobs! We have to give them the chance to figure it out.
Had a long conversation with my son yesterday after 2 weeks of not hearing from him. He had been largely in bed, too depressed to do anything since he got fired from his last job. Said he was staying sober but all the trappings indicate otherwise, and he lies alot..
I had some distance on the situation plus what you all were telling me, the conversation reminded me of how he destroys my serenity. He was so self pitying, self loathing, talk about the only meaningful thing in life is death, etc (he was a Philosophy major so can quote line and verse..) and one feels for him- yet some is a show for me I know to engender pity for him and keep Dad's money pump flowing. He had not even been to the job center 8 miles away that I found in 10 seconds by Googling, claimed 'noone told me about it'. His mental illness and self-pity feeds on itself until he is a black hole from which no light escapes. Hard to witness this as a Dad, hear him sobbing and wanting to die- hits me in the stomach and causes me trauma that lasts for days.. He has had some rough things happen like his girlfriend dying last Christmas of a heroin overdose which he provided.. blames himself and says he is the one who should've died, not her. But this is fodder for long term counseling, not me.
But he had done a few things RIGHT too- got signed up for MPAC insurance to low income people so can get meds free, got food stamps, and signed up to see a new dual diagnosis Doc where he lives now in W Maryland. And thinks he has a new job lined up soon where a friend works. So I congratulated him on these things and tried to instill confidence and reverse his negative spiral of self loathing. Hi
I also managed to tell him this is the last month I'm paying his car insurance so this job or another better work out... On the iPhone, it was a harder matter- he lied about where he got the $200 to upgrade and claimed he didn't realize he was extending our contract, etc and apologized. He gave all kinds of reasons why making him get his own phone plan was a bad idea and would make his life even more miserable.. more insinuation of not having anything to live for, etc. except for the few things he likes in life, like the iPhone. Said he would sell his old (perfectly good) iPhone and give us all the money to cover things. Quite an operator, eh? But I did plant the seed that he is headed OFF our phone plan eventually and will look for the right opportunity over the next few months.
I'm seeing him more and more as a really damaged person failing in basic areas of life, so unreliable and quick to do only what he wants that he can't keep a job. And without him doing the work to bring himself up to speed I am only getting in his way. I can still be loving and supportive, that is, if he will still talk to me after I stop paying for things...
Thanks again and peace and love to all of you who have helped me in this. Any additional input is always welcome!
I am much in your same situation. First let me say I am glad you are attending Alanon, please continue to do so. That being said our son is an addict (21yrs old) lived at home. At one time worked 2 jobs, paid rent, while we stayed in denial cause really how bad could he be if he was holding down 2 jobs right. Within 1 week he lost both his jobs because he went to work high. And he spirled down so fast after that it made our heads spin. But we were still believing his lies, that he was looking for work ( even though he came home high each time he went job hunting) but in believing him instead of trusting what we were actually seeing with our own eyes nearly drove us crazy. He got in trouble with the law..got a felony possesion charge that we actually turned him in for because he had OD'd and we went looking in his room to see what he could have possibly taken. We found it and turned it over to a paramedic so the hospital would know how to treat him. Well they took it to the DA and a few weeks later he was charged with possesion ( with a letter from the DA) so now a felony on his record. But the judge gave him chance after chance to do his probation and the felony would be reduced to a misdameaanor. He would not comply with probabtion....in and out of jail as we would turn him in everytime he came home high. Our son prefers hallciegens which are called loner drugs as they get high a like to be alone to hallucinate. Now he has lost all his friends who no longer wished to be around him when he was high. Everytime he got out of jail ( i was in alanon by then) he promised us he'd learned his lesson, going to turn his life around blah blah blah. We believed him everytime. Continued to let him live at home as a shelter or the streest were his only other option. One of the awesome things about alanon is no one will tell you what to do or not do. Or tell you or judge you on what you do decide to give to your son. It is suggested that you work the alanon program at least 6 months before making any major decisions so you do not have to decide anything right now. For us it took us over a year to finally tell our son continuting his drug use and living here was no longer an option. If we needed to take him to a shelter as heartbreaking as that is that is what we would do. Of course our son agreed to our boundaries and promptly went out and got high. We cried as we packed up his things to get ready to take him to a shelter. I called his PO as required by law to let him know our son would no longer be residing here. PO told us to keep him there and he would come pick him up. At that point the judge put him on the jail rehab unit. He has been there 10 months now. He tried for many months to get us to go back on our boundary of him not coming home but we have stuck firm. What we ARE willing to do is get him into a sober living home and help with some of his expenses as long as he was staying clean, if he doesn't choose to take our offer than he is on his own. And that is a heartbreaking decision. We have also offerred to get him a transportation pass so he could take the bus where he needs to go and a cell phone as I believe that he needs some sort of way to communicate with us, his PO etc. If he relapses the only thing we have agreed on is letting him continue to have a cell phone. I never want him to think that we have given up hope on him or are abandoning him. As I said it took us a long time to get to this point and it is very painful to think our child could be living on the streets. But we finally realized just giving him a roof over his head was enabling him. We were his safety net. Clearly Jail is not his bottom, ODing is not his bottom. I've no idea what his bottom is and that is a huge fear for us. What we do know now after working the program, after much prayer that we need to get out of God's way and stop cushioning our sons bottom. And we realize our worst fear that death may be his bottom thier is absolutly nothing we can do about it. Even while living at home we were watching him kill himself slowly everyday. And he has attempted to take his life once. And he brings that card out when he's not getting his way So what ever decision you choose it will be supported by the good people of alanon I do hope you continue your own recovery Blessings
Thanks so much for your story similar to mine, and your kind words. I see that you have much the same situation and I feel for you. Nobody wants to see their beloved son die from this terrible disease, yet we feel powerless to help them. I know what you have been through, and yours is especially bad with the jail and legal issues to worry about. Knowing you let him keep the cell phone helps me, I have come to the same decision since that could be a lifeline for jobs, medical help, etc and is the only way I know I can contact him when he chooses to be contacted. And you're right- nobody will judge me for whatever I do with him since nobody knows my situation or has the right to judge. But the principles seem to be borne out in the end by cases of successful recovery, which have often occurred when the enablers stopped enabling and they have had to face the true consequences of their disease.
They have to want to get better in a bad way and nobody knows what their bottom is. But you're right- they will only try to change when they decide to, and it may be tomorrow or twenty years from now... and suicide may happen at any time, no matter if we enable or not. I think we have to stick to the nonenabling principles by which many have found progress. Make them go out and earn the money for their shelter, food and vehicle and hope they do it honestly. We have been good examples to them I know, but the role models are not always followed and addiction takes them in a totally different direction. We just hope they will find the will and power to make the right changes to beat the deadly disease. I wish you success with your son and with your serenity and thanks for your very helpful comments.
