The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Good evening....I hope I can get some insight from this group.
Three months ago, I met a woman and fell very hard for her and she felt the same way. She is a recovering alcoholic and she's been sober for 18 years. I completely supported and so admired the things she had gone through, the strength she had to get sober, and she continues even to this day, to go once a week to her meetings. We had it all...it was loving, considerate, passionate, honest, and I could see spending the rest of my life with her, based on how deeply I felt each and every single day.
I am not a recovering alcoholic. I'm not an alcoholic, but I suddenly became aware of people in my life who are and it was eye-opening. I had always known my estranged father was an alcoholic, but I wasn't raised with him. I paid more attention to my friends and their habits and realized there were people around me who certainly are alcoholics. Drinking is not something I have ever thought much about and I enjoy a glass of wine or beer with a slice of pizza. She told me she wanted me to be myself and let me know it was okay. I can count on one hand, how many times I had a drink around her. I was extremely respectful of this and never wanted her to feel uncomfortable.
Flash forward. After almost three months of something I felt we were building and something I felt was very special, she abruptly ended it last week. All this time, she was telling me how full her heart was, that she had fallen head over heels for me, that she was looking forward to the holidays for the first time in many years. (She's been single for quite some time) I had just told her the week before that I wanted to look into Al Anon and discover her journey. I wanted to know her challenges and support her in any way that I could. I wanted to read with her, meditate, and nothing prompted me to do it or say it...I wanted to.
She explained that we were not on the same spiritual path. I most definitely believe in a higher power. I do not have the same experiences she has had, but it doesn't mean I wasn't open to it. The kicker was that she told me she could not see a future with me. I"m a really great person and this wasn't something we had ever had a long and detailed discussion about, but once she had said she didn't see a future, I walked away from it and I left that night. She apologized over and over again and knows she hurt me tremendously. She said she still has some soul searching and has "stuff" she needs to work on.
Normally, I would chalk this up and really think about what I did to contribute to the failure. But, I never saw it coming. I love her. I still do. We are now in this "no contact" mode because it hurt so much. We had so many fun things planned and I am heartbroken. Normally, I would just leave it alone but this time...I can't. I have to know and understand more about where she is coming from and I have so many questions. Did her recovery have something to do with this? Was it her sponsor? She had a history of running and breaking up in her previous relationship and when I told her as I left that there is no turning back, she said she had learned from that situation not to ever do it again. I was only the second relationship she had with someone who wasn't in recovery. Is it impossible for a recovering alcoholic to be with someone who isn't?
Is the abruptness related to her disease? How could she turn off like a lightswitch?
This wasn't a normal breakup for me. It was so random and out of the blue. It wasn't something anyone could see coming...everyone thought we were it. I am hurting and searhing for answers and I know normal breakups hurt, but I can't help but believe that it had everything to do with her recovery.
The spirituality factor...I explained that people of all faiths and backgrounds get married every day. So, how could that be a dealbreaker if someone cared enough to explore her path? I was more than open...I still am, with or without her. I don't know folks...I just want to know what you know through this program. What did I miss? What could I have done to prevent this "running" away pattern she appears to have? How could I have made her feel more secure in what would have been our future?
I get the one day at a time philosophy. I wasn't pushy and certainly gave space. I wasn't overbearing or sufficating in any way that I've also encountered in previous relationships. To me, it was the most healthy I have ever been with anyone...and what I mean by that is I have done a LOT of work on myself over the years. I'm very in tune with who I am, what I want, always making the changes I can change in myself, striving to be a better person and a great partner. She was with someone who is very secure and in a great place in life. I'm not perfect. I have my faults. But, this breakup has left me shattered into pieces.
Any insight anyone is willing to give, I would be so grateful. Thanks.
Aloha NYC...The greatest emotional stumbling block is fear to a recovering person. For a recovering alcoholic it is the fear of loosing a relationship with our Higher Power and then re-establishing a relationship with alcohol; the ultimate lose, lose situation the pain is unfantonable and regardless of all of the good and good people around the ability to apply the brakes and get back into recovery and remain is a crap shoot. "Alcoholism can never be cured. It can only be arrested by total abstinence. It is a progressive disease in that if the alcoholic had a period of time of sobriety and then resumed drinking it would be as if the sobiety had never occured and often times it is worse." Just a tidbit from the AMA journal of medicine from 30 years ago.
What you have done I have done on several occasions; fallen in love with an alcoholic. In my case only one of them sought AA, the others not. I found out in hindsight how valuable a program of recovery is to a honest and willing Alcoholic. They surrender their lives to the program and won't surrender their program for anything. The miracle is magical. It is the Phoenix story over and over. At first a guarantee of either insanity or death or both if the alcoholic drinks and then after finding the doors of AA it becomes a life they would surrender for nothing or no one.
If you want to understand...Let her go completely and commit to the Al-Anon Family Groups; it's face to face meetings; as much of the literature that you can get your hands on; everything you can get on the disease of alcoholism which is "cunning, powerful and baffling"; why this is a category A disease with a spiritual recovery and how it has the power to destroy even without a thread of understanding such as where you are at right now. Commit for 90 days. "If you love something let it go...If it never comes back it wasn't meant to be...If it does come back love it forever."
This isn't about you.
This is about alcoholism and her desire to live without it and the fear of it.
This isn't about normalcy.
Abnormal is normal for the alcoholic, their family, friends and associates.
This is about Gods; Higher Powers.
This is about abandoning a relationship with one that can be felt in every pore of the mind, body, spirit and emotions which escorts you into hell. It lives beneath every cap, cork or pull tab where alcohol lurks.
For
One you abandon yourself to who recreates treasures from drunk junk without condition accepting the unloveable and loving the unacceptable by anyone else.
This is about looking in the mirror and seeing a miracle looking back where odds once were in favor of sickly demise.
This isn't about you. It's about something bigger than you and honestly more valueable than you.
If the surrendered alcoholic
doesn't have sobriety.
The still drinking alcoholic has
nothing at all.
nothing.
Keep coming back.
-- Edited by Jerry F on Wednesday 9th of September 2009 04:12:33 AM
-- Edited by Jerry F on Wednesday 9th of September 2009 04:17:37 AM
Glad u found us ((( nyc writer ))) ~ I agree with Jerry's response, let her go and detach with love (compassion, empathy, understanding, support). Get involved with al-anon, go to meetings, read all u can, talk to others, work the steps with a sponsor.
As I read ur post, I thought about how fear makes us do insane things. If ur willing to make these changes anyway, go ahead and make them. Our daily reader One Day at a Time and the book Courage to Change are excellent books. Getting them Sober by Toby Rice Drews is another that is immensely helpful.
You say ur acoa (adult child of alcoholic/addict) but didnt grow up with dad as a part of ur life. The effects on children that grow up with emotionally unavailable parents is devastating and sets us up for issues such as abandonment and perfectionism. As a kid, we try to take responsibility for our parent's feelings/moods - it is as if codependency is inherent. We try to make better grades, work harder, entertain to "fix" other's moods. Addicts have major codependnet issues too. Who knows what she think she saw, in her perception of you that may or may not be true. Maybe she feels inadequate herself or the idea of a solid relationship now simply became over whelming, suddenly. Her feelings are her feelings, they are valid whether it is true of you or not -- fear -(future events arent real), fear truly is the mind killer.
All u can do is accept what has happened. You said you walked away & closed the door of communication. I say make the changes anyway, take it odat and see what happens, what discoveries u make about yourself. I know I didnt think I was contributing negatively to my relationships but with work in program, I could begin to identify & have a new awareness of myself. Brutal honesty is not for wimps.
None of us knows what will happen in the future, it is wide open with unlimited possibilities.
This site also has a chat room that is open 24/7 for chat and we host two daily mtgs in there... come on in & talk to someone - it helps in real time and we can relate & share stories.
Being so open minded, is a rare quality, good on you ~ hope u give alanon a try & I look forward to meeting u in the chat room.
__________________
Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
Hi there, almost this exact same thing happened to me about a month and a half ago. My then boyfriend just decided he didn't love me anymore one day. It has tortured me for six weeks. Really I have been torturing myself. I have tried to talk to him on numerous occasions and he just refuses to communicate. I wanted answers too but when I got them I felt that most of them were just a front that he was putting up to convince himself that he is no longer in love. As if he is doing something he has to that is against what he feels in his heart. I did get some valid reasons too but most of those I thought about and figured out on my own and he just confirmed what I already thought.
I think it all comes down to being in two different places developmentally and emotionally. He's not ready for the depth of what we had and I freaked and lost my mind when he removed himself.
Now I'm on a journey of self improvement, I'm working on the things I recognize that I need to change, the issues that I know I need to resolve to be happy. Being ok alone, patience, neediness, giving away all of what I have inside me to one person, trying to "fix" people's problems for them and thinking I'm "helping". I guess you just have to accept her decision and respect that she has made this choice. I know when you're blindsided that's very hard to do! I know the days will pass and you'll come through this ok just like I will.
Welcome to MIP nyc! You have come to the right place. This is a place for recovery and working our own program. My AHsober left after 30 years of marriage. I wasn't blindsided but I believe everything that he said about loving me. Then he didn't love me. He didn't want to work at recovery or his marriage. I asked the same questions over and over. And when I started going to f2f meetings, reading the literature, and going online, the answer came out the same. It really isn't about you but about the disease of alcoholism. Hard I know. But focus on yourself. Let go and let god.
I cannot add much to the great feedback you already received except to agree and to express my empathy to you with this loss-
3 months is a bit short in my opinion to be "head over heels" over someone, but I suppose the chemistry and excitement could make her think she was- However I agree with one poster here that said she may have gotten frightened-
Fear can make us do very crazy things- I think she suddenly got afraid of an intimate relationship and ran! Perhaps she just thought she could not handle it!
My sponsor told me that if a relationship is meant to be- Let go and detach- If they really care, they will work out things and maybe come back-
In the meantime, I would work alanon and all the program suggested steps for recovery and let go of her with a lot of love and compassion and sweet memories-
I am so sorry this happened to you- I had a fellow a few months back just disappear from my life- No explanation at all- I was sad, but I let it go and blessed him and gave thanks for the good things I learned about myself-
I hope you feel better soon,
Neshema
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Wow...this has been quite a rollercoaster of heavy emotion for me. First, I want to thank you for the responses. I have heard much of the same from other people in recovery, some in Al Anon, and finally, I heard it from her. I am going to my first F2F meeting tomorrow. I've been reading on this board and I'm picking up the books recommended. I haven't had a chance to respond until now.
After I posted the initial request for help, I was leaving for NYC for a trip she was actually supposed to go with me. I am from NYC and it was a return for the 9/11 anniversary. This day for me is very tough, as I was directly impacted by death and witnessed the events. I could not leave without telling her how I felt. I didn't expect a response, yet, she did...and then some. We started talking while I was away and it appeared there was a door opening...having explained to me she had "cut me off at the knees." We talked about a lot of things and when I asked what she wanted me to bring back as a gift, "All I want is you. I love you."
One of the posts suggested this is too short of a time. I can assure you, there is so much there between the two of us, I don't doubt my feelings or hers. Love is indeed something which develops and takes time, but we had all of the signs and overwhelming feelings. We were on our way to an incredible journey. The problem---the day before shes making the statement about just wanting me and can't wait to see me...the next day, the day I get home...she proceeds to tell me she doesn't want a relationship with me and slammed the door again! I was crushed, again.
Last week, after two weeks of no contact by my choice, she sends an email out of the blue asking me how I am, not sure if she should contact me, and I reply. I had a slew of items left at her place and we needed to exchange these items. She then asks if we could grab dinner. Against my better judgment, I agreed....my friends all told me not to do this, but I felt it might provide some answers. It did, but left me even more heartbroken.
You were all right...FEAR. She feels so comfortable in her little box and her routine, that a relationship with ANYONE throws her off balance. When it ends, she feels a sigh of relief and can breathe. Yet, there is still so much depth of caring for me. She doesn't take time to know someone before she runs away. She is a really beautiful soul, yet, won't allow herself to take the risk of having a relationship. There was nothing unhealthy with me, nothing she couldn't have discussed, nothing I wouldn't have worked on or with her, and I was more than willing and would have done anything for her. She knows that and knew it, but has stated she still has a lot of work to do on herself.
We're not quite sure what's next...she told me she wants me in her life and doesn't want me to stay away forever, knows its going to take time to heal, but I feel like I've had a third breakup with her. I know I have to let go. This is about her, about her recovery, and she needs to do whatever it takes and find what she wants...even though it most likely will not be a life with me.
It makes me sad, truly sad. She was surprised I was blindsided and didn't realize how little she had communicated. I would have loved to have known what was coming up for her and kick myself for not checking or asking what I could do to help ease any concerns she had with this feeling of fear. The last thing she said to me was that she missed me and loved me...and she cried as much as I did. This visit, BTW, lasted 6 hours with us sitting, talking, and walking around...neither one of us wanted to leave each other.
I mean, this really sucks in every single way. It hurts beyond belief to see someone who truly has found something incredibly special, to walk away due to fear.
Is it possible that AA creates this dependancy to the point where someone cannot function in a normal and healthy relationship with a partner that would go to every length of supportiveness? Wouldn't a therapist, in addition to AA, be another good way to help her with this committment/relationship fear and work on the triggers of her past? Is it possible to get addicted to AA in place of the alcohol?
I am taking the steps I need to understand this and tomorrow is my first chance to get to a F2F meeting. I know whatever we had, has been eaten away. One last sad note to all of this...I have a great friend who I had not spoken to in almost a year due to our busy schedules and lives. We live in different states. I remembered she is a recovering alcoholic also and thought she might be able to give more perspective.
She relapsed. I feel terrible for her.
This is an ugly disease that truly reaches in and tears people apart in every imaginable way. I want to thank you for the responses. You were spot on with the reasoning. How sad, sad, sad...I am. (My heart feels like a rubber band that keeps getting pulled all the way back and snapped in two.)
I'll keep reading, praying, and finally getting to some meetings. Good night.
Wow, your story is so similar to my recent breakup with a recovering alcoholic gf. It's like she flipped a switch and one week adores me and the week after, lists out all the things she doesn't like about me, then breaks up. I was left dazed and confused. What I heard from a mutual gal friend was that she stated that her "anxiety level" is a lot lower now that she let me go. That told me that her emotional well being is something that she has to "manage" like a resource. If it get's too high, then her sobriety may be at risk. My therapist explained to me that when she couldn't manage all the stresses in her life, work, etc. and unfortunately I got the short end of the stick as far as what she needed to cut out. What's really confusing though is the manner in which she broke up...like she became this other person that I didn't recognize at all and showed me the door. But I've read that alcoholics are always avoiding guilt and uncomfortable emotions. They revert to anger to cover up guilt or regret. It hurt me greatly but even more than that confused me to no end. So I think that is why while breakups are always hard, break ups with addicts are harder as understanding why the break up occurred is much more elusive.
Welcome to MIP sotnos - glad you found us and glad that you joined right in. Keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
WOW!!! FEAR!!! its a SOB to deal with and yea, it sucks when one is so frozen in fear they blow off a chance of a life time of love...and yea, they can flip a switch...AA isn't to blame, but for a lot of them and even us CoDa's we get these irrational fears that if a "guy comes into my life, I am gonna go back to stinking bad thinking" when all I gotta do is keep working program, maybe up my meets if I ever find someone and stay easy does it ....you said she has done this before..so there is a pattern of "love em and leave em" out of fear... I would stay away from her here on in because your original post was a while ago and you are here again posting about her...Seems she has waaay too much baggage for now to be with anyone...I know..It sucks..a good person, I am sure, but majorally messed up, still....I am fear based, too so I know how she feels and I just keep working my program and I see progress in me, but fear is a biggie to overcome...It boils down to hoping that as I keep working MY CoDa and ACA, etc., Al-anon, I will gain enough trust in myself so as to be able to risk a love relationship, if it is in my life chart, that is...Not gonna "force" anything, but I can relate to you and I can relate to how she is feeling as well......for right now , still, she needs to be left alone to work this out....in the meantime, I hope you can focus on you and figure out why you keep going to this still empty well...I hope you can stick around here, read the board, go to the meets fac2fac or online here, work the steps because tho you love her, its clear, but deep in your heart, you know she is gonna hurt you again yet you tried again as you said "against your better judgement" gee this is so sad, reading this...You sound like an awesome guy and somewhere there is someone who can return your love but first you gotta get strong in you...Al-anon and maybe ACA is the answer...this MIP board has an ACA board which I post on too because I need BOTH...nothing wrong wth that....Hang in there and please keep coming back...
The come here go away stuff is pretty intoxicating
The problem.with.someone else needing help.is they have to want to get help. No matter how you set it up they have to want it.
What I look at in relationship is actions. There were plenty of I love you stuff in relationship the actions said otherwise
Then there is the issue of #I am confused so I will push you away# Alcohol8cs are pretty good at doing the pushing but then they want you back.
I don't know about your background but the come here go away stuff was pretty prevalent. So were the let downs.
You could analyze her behavior for ever. The issue we address 8n al.anon is how do you feel. How do you take care of yourself. How do you keep from falling in the pool
Alcoholics in recovery are difficult. They talk.a lot because that is what you do at meetings. Remember their primary issue for a long time is to not drink. Relationships bring up z lot of anxiety. You don't say what her background is but whatever it is we all have triggers. If you want to mature one of the best ways is to have a relationship. It is guaranteed everything about your childhood is go8ng to come up. Newly sober people are not inn a position to deal with that. Generally it takes therapy or a heavy commitment to self care to manage that. Even then it is if there is dysfunction in your background pretty difficult stuff. Go to an open.merting of AA you will hear lots if people talk about relationship issues.
The issue by the way isn't het. You can't control her f8x her or make her be in relationship. The person you can fix is you.
Al anon can help with An understanding about the alcoholic. Them maybe about why you are attracted to an alcoholkic. They have redeem8ng features. Eventually you can get to how to deal with an alcoholic in recovery or out of recovery
Categorically what you are not going to get at Al anon is a recipe for how you can fix her.
Yes, Al-Anon focus is about fixing and healing oneself. However, some of us don't need a lot of fixing. We don't seek out addicts on purpose. In my case, my ex gf hadn't had a drink in 6 years, but still the underlying psychological issues were still there and she just transferred her addiction to other activities. As a layman on the issues of addiction at the time, I had no clue about what was really going on. But I was already in the relationship when addiction started to wield its ugly head. Ironically, I probably understand her better now after the breakup and studying the issue and attending Al-Anon than when we were still together. Many of the speakers at Al-Anon keep emphasizing that we are "sick" as well...the flip side to the addict. I don't fully agree with this. Some of us just ran into this emotional buzz saw that we didn't fully understand or saw coming (pun intended). The lack of understanding of what hit us is what drives us crazy. That's not being sick, that's a normal process in any break up be it with an addict or not.
I wouldn't say that all this is necessarily related to alcoholism, as there are many people who behave this way who have never been alcoholics. However, alcoholism is intertwined with dysfunction and in that sense it is related to her alcoholism.
After many years of plunging into relationships head-first, what I've learned is that that feeling of being overwhelmingly in love and sure that things feel right and being so immersed it in all - that is not an actual healthy way to approach a relationship. Of course everyone enjoys that first heady feeling of being in love. But the people who are smarter than I've been keep their wits about them - they don't get in too deep too soon, even though they appreciate the great feelings. The first 6 months of most relationships are full of wonderful feelings and idealism and great dreams. In months 6-12, real life start to come out - nobody can be their perfect selves for long, not other people and not us - and the everyday quirks and problems start to emerge. That's when our job is to assess those quirks and problems and see if they're just human quirks, or if they're deal-breakers.
Actually this woman's quirks/problems came out a little early - after only 3 months. I know (well!) the temptation to dismiss them as 'not really her'. And the craving to get back to those wonderful feelings that you both had before. We can literally become addicted to those feelings, those wonderful chemicals of happiness and security our brains produced. It used to be that I'd do pretty much anything to get those back. Including ignoring the huge red flags that were emerging.
From having been through almost exactly this scenario - my finding is that people who plunge quickly into a relationship, as she has, are impulsive people - and so they plunge quickly out. This is not a one-time thing. If you got back together, it would happen again and again. That causes immense drama, and in many of us it triggers a clinginess. We become focused on how to get the relationship back together, how to get those good feelings going again. Finally it's back together but we can't breathe easy. We proceed walking on eggshells so they don't leave us again - but again they do. And so on. I endured so many years of this misery, becoming worn down, my perspective so distorted by the end. I knew the wonderful person my partner "could" be. I just wanted more of that. But what I was ignoring was that much of the time, my partner was a different person. I thought he was "really" the wonderful one, and the drama-causing, always-leaving person was just a temporary mistake. But in reality that's who he was too.
I hope you'll plunge into your own recovery. You deserve more than someone who is so flighty that she runs away - not just after three months but ever. Take care of yourself.
Is it possible that AA creates this dependancy to the point where someone cannot function in a normal and healthy relationship with a partner that would go to every length of supportiveness? Wouldn't a therapist, in addition to AA, be another good way to help her with this committment/relationship fear and work on the triggers of her past? Is it possible to get addicted to AA in place of the alcohol?
I had thoughts like these in my early marriage. I am married (soon to be separated) to a man who had 10 years sober in 12 step (NA). When we got married I didn't understand why he had to keep going to meetings and where we lived they were very inconvenient. It took up his whole day off and drove me nuts. Doesn't he want to spend time with me?! Our son?! I thought angrily. I wanted him to go to meetings closer to home but he told me there was less sobreity and less fellowship there. I had no idea what that meant and thought he was just being selfish and imagined him hanging out with a bunch of friends. I didn't understand why he had to keep going after ten years... I thought our amazing relationship could surely give him everything he needed.
Eventually he stopped going to meetings. It was as a result of many things, but my less than supportive attitude was my part in it. Sometimes I would be supportive and sometimes I would beg him to stay home and help me with our son or housework or whatever - it was his only day off and he wanted to spend it at a meeting!
Shortly after stopping meetings, something very difficult happened to him, he couldn't cope and ended up relapsing. Now I am in the opposite end of the equation! Bending over backwards if he even suggests going to a meeting and being SO happy about it.
Now I am in recovery too. It may be too late for our marriage. But I now appreciate what meetings are, what fellowship is and how it can be a lifeline - a life saver - to people who need it.
Recovery has also helped me come to terms with my attraction to high intensity relationships with high intensity men... who are sometimes addicts. I think there is something about the drama that draws me to them. I am still working through this, but just recognising this is a pattern in my life has helped me.
For me the issue with relationships is the same as work. I plunged into either one of them. Then when they didnt.work out I blamed others. That was my way to preserve the notion that I.understoid I knew how to live. I.also had the long long lists of what they needed to do.
I didn't have the same long list of what I needed to do. What I needed to do so I thought was fix them
The issue foir me was that I had far more interest in them than they had in me.
So recently when I had issues in a job where one of my.co workers became pretty nasty I made a choice not to go o keyboard on what was wrong with him. Instead I focused on what did I need to do. The reality with other people 8s no matter how well I know them they have to want to change. My wisdom.about who they are what they are and how I can tespoknd to then diuesnt mean they will want to change
For me seeing a great thing in a relationship or a job is most of the time based on what I want. I wouldn't say that it is because of realistically what can happen there.
I tend to be more cautious now about places or person(s) with whom I will.soend a lot of time. I am more willing to wait observe and reflect. I am more will8ng to create space around it rather than plunge in and through #force which I declare is my oassion# make it work
Being devastated is hard work. Lowering my expections helped me immensely. Being patient helped. Most of all taking the focus off the other person (or in the case of work #persons#) helped. not because they weren't relevant
My own response my own triggers were what I.neede to manage no matter what. . I never got to manage the other person(s) i learmed how to respond to them. Managing myself was ultimately far more productive than beginning to imagine I knew what was best for others.
