New to the board, new to Al-Anon, New to so many things - long (sorry) - Al-Anon Family Group

Evil_step_mom · Member

New to the board, new to Al-Anon, New to so many things - long (sorry)

Melissa21 · Senior Member

Welcome to MIP!

I think the one thing that will help is if you chose to keep coming back here and try getting to some f2f Alanon meetings in your area. You will learn a lot and it will help you to deal with A's in a different way.

Melissa

Evil_step_mom · Member

Thanks for the response - but where? A quick google search showed one miles away, and I'm not living half way up some mountain.

Is there a web site I can use to get to one locally?

rosielightshines · ~*Service Worker*~

I, too recommend that you keep coming back...Working on you...When I got in recovery, I got a sponsor, immediatey.....12 steps books and I worked them and just Practiced what was said.....practiced the slogans.....went to meets..

all of this led me to "shake hands with me---get to know me AND I connected for the first time, my God"......Then , after getting to know me, I learned how to take better care of me....

Please keep coming back...This program works...for those who really want to recover and come into themselves, this 12 step program is the best...

Evil_step_mom · Member

rosielightshines wrote:

I, too recommend that you keep coming back...Working on you...When I got in recovery, I got a sponsor, immediatey.....12 steps books and I worked them and just Practiced what was said.....practiced the slogans.....went to meets..

all of this led me to "shake hands with me---get to know me AND I connected for the first time, my God"......Then , after getting to know me, I learned how to take better care of me....

Please keep coming back...This program works...for those who really want to recover and come into themselves, this 12 step program is the best...

I'm confused. I'm not being abused here, I'm being used. I'm being used by someone who's got an addiction.
I'm trying not to let him use me or my household - It was naivete on my behalf allowing him move in without more info. However, I was trying to get myself more equipped to deal with his manipulation than to "seek healing" for myself.
Perhaps I should "grow a pair" and ask him to leave. Job done.
As for finding god - I respect other people's beliefs, however, I don't want or need other peoples gods.

N8SMOM · Senior Member

So sorry you have to deal with this.

If you don't mind my asking. . . .where do you live? Perhaps that can help us find a meeting for you?

Evil_step_mom · Member

I live near Rocklin, California

I did a quick Google search and picked up somewhere that was miles away.

I need to equip myself with ways of dealing with these negative behaviors, that will not compromised his AA progress.

The hubster and I try not to indulge in enabling gestures and go to great lengths to ensure that we don't carry this young man.

However, he's 29 and still needs a list of chores to do round the house.

He is aware of our anger over the illegality of his car. and since we found out, we don't lend him ours.

Frankly (and somewhat harshly) if he left tomorrow, I have no great emotional attachment, apart from he's another human being in pain

-- Edited by Evil_step_mom on Monday 1st of June 2009 02:03:53 PM

Jozie · ~*Service Worker*~

Evil Step Mom (((((HUGS)))))

Welcome to the MIP family...

Around here there are no quick fixes in dealing with our "A's" or Dry Drunk in your case, we are here to help one another get thru tough times, offer friendship and understanding...

You stated: As for finding god - I respect other people's beliefs, however, I don't want or need other peoples gods.

Not everyone here sees their HP "Higher Power" as God, many have many differant terms or names, it is "A God of Our Indiviual Understanding" not everyone sees the same thing, that is why this program works for those that want help...

I have only been here about 6 months after loosing my Afather, Now I thought that since he was out of my life now, maybe I didn't "Need" This program... I am so happy that I desided to stick around, it has helped me find out who I am... and why I allow others to treat me the way they do, or Walk over me the way they Use too...

Everybody here has their own reasons for being here, and sounds as tho you have some good ones yourself... I hope that you keep coming back, and posting, and reading and sharing with others, you will be suprized how much you learn... I know I was...

Good luck to you...
Friends In Recovery
Jozie

Evil_step_mom · Member

Thank you all for your responses.

I'm hoping to learn.

The kid (and that's what is is) has plenty of enablers in his life, his real mom, and his real dad (my husband is the step dad too).

We are striving not to be among them, and to help guide him through his issues. We were ill prepared to find that he's emotionally stunted at the age which alcohol took over his life, but only by experiencing him living in our house do we have any understanding of the journey he's got to make.

rosielightshines · ~*Service Worker*~

Evil Step mom___

I'm confused. I'm not being abused here, I'm being used. I'm being used by someone who's got an addiction.

I'm trying not to let him use me or my household - It was naivete on my behalf allowing him move in without more info. However, I was trying to get myself more equipped to deal with his manipulation than to "seek healing" for myself.

Perhaps I should "grow a pair" and ask him to leave. Job done.

As for finding god - I respect other people's beliefs, however, I don't want or need other peoples gods.

ROSIE_____ I just told you MY take...That is why I say "take what you can use and leave the rest".....I just know that I have been "used" too...This program helped me break the patterns on ME that caused me to let "users" in my life.......I can't and won't advise...I just give my experience/strength/hope called "ESH" here...and thats it.....

as to your "I don't want or need other peoples gods".......I don't think I was "selling" any god to anyone.....I am Christian but whatever God or Higher power another embraces is NOT my busines........step 2 says "came to believe in a power greater than myself AS I UNDERSTAND IT".......I wasn't even pushing that....All I did was tell my "take"....

you asked for "strategies" and I can only relate as to what I did or what I would do re: the situation...The choice is yours.....good luck on whatever you do

and AGAIN....Please take what you can use and leave the rest.....

N8SMOM · Senior Member

Hope this helps!

http://scws-al-anon.org/state_map/index.htm

Editted to add another one:
http://www.ncwsa.org/d6-10/D6-10%20Alanon%20Sched.htm
This one takes place on Wednesdays

10:00 AM

Rocklin/Loomis Lighthouse AFG
Shepherd of the Sierra Presbyterian Church
5400 Barton Road
(at Rocklin Road)

-- Edited by N8SMOM on Monday 1st of June 2009 05:17:05 PM

Evil_step_mom · Member

Thanks....

I also found this:
http://alcoholism.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=alcoholism&cdn=health&tm=3&f=00&su=p284.9.336.ip_p736.8.336.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=1&st=28&zu=http%3A//www.ncwsa.org/meeting.html%23anchor50845

-- Edited by Evil_step_mom on Monday 1st of June 2009 04:37:19 PM

debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

We can only be used, and manipulated if we allow it.

We only enable when we do it.

In my experience it is rarely helpful to allow an adult to move back home. Especially an A.

We all need to learn to take care of ourselves. Need to find out how to survive on our own.When we take them in, we rob them of finding out their own strengths and power.

They can figure out how to get a job,how to find a home, food,etc.

A person may be in recovery but the are still an addict. Addicts tend to think only of themselves, they are selfish, and will live off anyone who will allow it. Just the nature of the disease.

As far as understanding it, or being ready for it, it is insanity, no way to do that.

As far as managing ourselves or what we choose to accept, boundaries are great BUT we must have consequenses for them being broken and stick to it. If we dont', the person/disease won't believe us and continue to push us as far as it can.

Ignore what they say, watch what they do is a good one. Most addicts lie as easy as drinking water.

We have meetings here online in the Chat room. There is an open chat room, and this message board.

One of the best ways to really help us is to read literature and educate ourselves.

"Getting Them Sober" is a good one by Toby Rice Drews. When we understand the disease more, we are more likely to know how to respond to it.

Keep coming back. love,debilyn

-- Edited by debilyn on Monday 1st of June 2009 05:14:49 PM

RLC · ~*Service Worker*~

Evil Step Mom,

There is very little difference in an alcololics personality whether they are drinking or not. We can't fix them or change them no matter how hard we try. We can set rules or boundaries. You and your husband only had one rule (boundary). Do nothing illegal. Not a lot to ask for, or expect from someone you reached out for and welcomed into your home. You held up your end, and he broke the one rule you gave him. How firm was the boundary? Was there a consequence to him if the rule was broken? If there was you and your husband can consider inforcing the rule.

One of the most important things I learned in Al-Anon is that "It is better to allow someone to make their own mistakes and suffer their own consequences without any interference from me." That may seem hard to do, but in the long run I have never known of a situation where it was not the best thing for all parties involved.

My father always said he would help anyone who was willing to help themselves. Over the years I have tried to practice what my father taught me. ln most cases it brought me joy to help them. But, the hard thing I also learned is that sometimes it is a one way street and as much as I helped it was not appreciated. Some people were not interested in helping themselves no matter how much I wanted them too.

This is in no way intended to be advice as to what you should do. Take what you like and leave the rest. But, remember you are in control what ever decision you decide to make. Always take care of yourself and your own serenity first. That is not being selfish.

RLC

-- Edited by RLC on Monday 1st of June 2009 05:16:59 PM

Evil_step_mom · Member

I know now that we were unprepared for an addicted person in our home - even if they are dry.

Realistically, we should have had a list of consequences for rule breaking from the outset, however neither my husband or I had experience of an addictive personality before and didn't realize our mistake.

We just need to decided how to go forward. and that is to set some new goals and to consequences if they are not met.

It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it.

debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

A dry A is no different than an using A. Same behaviors.

The analogy is,it is only fruitcake with out the nuts, still a fruitcake.

Unless a person is on a "plan" of recovery, their sobriety is almost moot.

As far as a dirty job and someone has to do it, that someone is the A and no one else.

We cannot help them. The best way to help them is to allow them the dignity to figure it out for themselves.

We cannot control them. We cannot change them.

We set up boundaries to protect US, not them.

To allow an A do live off us, not work,not have goals or plans to move out on their own is supporting their disease.

Tough stuff to face, but true.

love,debilyn

Evil_step_mom · Member

The reason I came to this board what to find info... and when reading about the dry drunk and behaviors, quickly came to that conclusion, we're never going to change him - that is down to him.

That's one reason why we didn't specify on our house rules - stay sober or keep attending meetings - that's his choice, not ours. We hope he succeeds, but can't enforce success.

Giving him a 3 month rent free break was meant to be just that - giving him a rent respite to get himself back on his feet. However, as I've already admitted, we were sadly unprepared for the reality of living with an alcoholic and we treated him like a 29 year old young man, not a 29 year old alcoholic.

I now see the difference.

What I don't understand is that you guys think I want to help the step son..... WRONG - if you reread my posts, its more about getting him to stop using us. Breaking our one and only house rule, or to deal with MY feelings about his behavior

Now, many of you have been dealing with alcoholics for years, and perhaps you would have made a consequences list at the start. However, I didn't know that at the time or I would have done.

If you read my posts, I've not asked how to help him - I have asked however how I deal with his irritating behavior, if it gets better ever, and when I referred to a "dirty job" - I was talking about starting fresh and giving the rules again, but this time with time frames and consequences......

-- Edited by Evil_step_mom on Monday 1st of June 2009 06:17:14 PM

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

The easiest way to find a meeting is call the toll free international number
1-888-4-alanon lines are open mon - fri from 8 am -8pm . they will give u a contact number for your area or direct you to nearest meeting . as for son nothing changes til someone changes , not working no insurance , make sure u havent go signed any of his car stuff or you will be held responsible . WE are enablers as long as we do for them what they should be doing for themselves there is no reason for him to change , no rent no responsibilities sounds good to me . If your husb is in agreement you can remind him that his time is up , its time to move on . the fact that he hasnt saved any money is his problem not yours. give him a time line for moving out and stick to it . that for me was the hardest part being consistant.
Expecting an A to act normally was my biggest mistake ,drunk or sober if thier not willing to change same thing .just no booze . This guy is 29 years old , it's time .

rosielightshines · ~*Service Worker*~

RLC__________My father always said he would help anyone who was willing to help themselves. Over the years I have tried to practice what my father taught me. ln most cases it brought me joy to help them. But, the hard thing I also learned is that sometimes it is a one way street and as much as I helped it was not appreciated. Some people were not interested in helping themselves no matter how much I wanted them too.

ROSIE______OH this is my philosophy entirely......"help them IF they want to help themselves"...that is the biggie.....I had to really work to "myob" and let them suffer their own consequences...I can do it now w/no problems....I have never regretted it....I no longer waste my time on folks who do not want to help themseleves...

hey we all need a "boost" encouragement..support...esh...even a shoulder to cry on and yea, IF they cannot do something, they absolutely CANT because they are ill or unable or something, then YEA, I love to help...WHEN it is NECESSARY.....

when my friend was dying of cancer, yea, I waited on her, cut and styled her hair, helped her to the toilet/ bathing...whatever she needed b/c she had been rendered unable to do so many things...the tumours were so big in her that they "weighed her down" literally and she would fall from the disproportionate weight and the weakness and drugs....yea, I did everything for her...I told her I would "stand by her and see her out of this world" and I did....So YEA!! I love to help the real needy....the users???? NOPE!!! No time for them!!!!!

Good posts, guys!!!!

Evil_step_mom · Member

abbyal wrote:

The easiest way to find a meeting is call the toll free international number
1-888-4-alanon lines are open mon - fri from 8 am -8pm . they will give u a contact number for your area or direct you to nearest meeting . as for son nothing changes til someone changes , not working no insurance , make sure u havent go signed any of his car stuff or you will be held responsible . WE are enablers as long as we do for them what they should be doing for themselves there is no reason for him to change , no rent no responsibilities sounds good to me . If your husb is in agreement you can remind him that his time is up , its time to move on . the fact that he hasnt saved any money is his problem not yours. give him a time line for moving out and stick to it . that for me was the hardest part being consistant.
Expecting an A to act normally was my biggest mistake ,drunk or sober if thier not willing to change same thing .just no booze . This guy is 29 years old , it's time .

Evil_Step_mom Says:

Thanks for this.... I may attend a meeting to get more information.

Up until 3 weeks ago he was at school and finals, and today he started a new job.

It's a good time to remind him that we had 1 rule and we expect it to be fulfilled. and that the living arrangement was meant to be 3 months, and it's exceeded that.

It's a good time to start again - this time with clear boundaries and consequences.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

clara · Senior Member

Evil step mom---first of all you are not the evil stop mom.   After all you did offer him a place to stay until he gets on his feet.

After the post I put out here today regarding my alcholic daughter, I am in no position to give you you much input. The best advise I can tell you, keep coming back here. There are some wonderful people here. They have got me through so much!!!

Also, find an al-anon meeting to go to.

My husband and I did the same thing you did for my adaughter. It lasted for less than a week and was the most horrible week of our lives. My hat goes off to you for lasting this long.

Hang in there and keep coming back here. We care!!!

Evil_step_mom · Member

clara wrote:

Evil step mom---first of all you are not the evil stop mom. After all you did offer him a place to stay until he gets on his feet.

After the post I put out here today regarding my alcholic daughter, I am in no position to give you you much input. The best advise I can tell you, keep coming back here. There are some wonderful people here. They have got me through so much!!!

Also, find an al-anon meeting to go to.

My husband and I did the same thing you did for my adaughter. It lasted for less than a week and was the most horrible week of our lives. My hat goes off to you for lasting this long.

Hang in there and keep coming back here. We care!!!

Hey - Clara, and everyone, I'm seeing that everyone here have very different, but no less compelling stories.

I'm lucky - my step kid is working hard at his program. He's getting more and involved in AA and is speaking and volunteering at the meetings etc. I'm lucky that I didn't really know him when he was drinking / killing himself.

He's easy to live with, clean / neat / tidy, but I made a mistake by not setting clear boundaries or clear consequences.

As for the Moniker..... the kids thought it ironic - they even had a t-shirt printed. (Well at least I hope it was all in jest!)

debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

you reread my posts, its more about getting him to stop using us. Breaking our one and only house rule, or to deal with MY feelings about his behavior.

Dear Lady, You cannot make him do anything. That is the point. He is using because he is allowed to.

Simple, stop allowing it.
It is very ok. Not often is one taught that when we put up boundaries and rules we need to have consequences.

So now we make them. Nothing illegal while you stay with us or you have two choices, one week to get your insurance or you leave our home.

It is frustrating,your feelings do matter. But they do not matter to the A.

So what we do is detach. We don't care what they say, it is the disease talking anyway.

I used to picture a wad of cancer just yakking away when my A opened his mouth. Who cares what it says?

It takes awhile, but we can change,and choose how to react or not react.

When my A would start the disease talk I would leave the room. Leave the house, read, watch tv.

When the diseae gets to us, it controls us.

You know if we don't know, we don't know! That is what makes us come here. After awhile we catch ourselves and change how we react. It will take the time it take so put our skills to use.

It is wonderful you came here and I see you really taking this in. Remember it it nothing personal. We share our experiences with each other.

I wish my mil had of tossed my AH out when he was 29,then maybe he would have had to learn to live on his own. But nooooo he always went home to mommy until she ended up in a nursing home.

Then he moved in with this friend of his moms,old thing, lives off her. sicko.

anyhoo hope this helped! love,debilyn

Christy · ~*Service Worker*~

Hey evil

(lol),

I'm lovin you already. I couldn't help but smile at your obvious sense of humor, whether intended or not.
It sounds like you're on the right track redefining how you want to handle the situation.
Alanon can certainly help. No one tells you what to do but it offers "tools of the trade" and what has worked for countless others.
Like, what you've already discovered. Rules (or boundaries) are meaningless w/o consequences. And following through is key. Otherwise this kid/guy is going to take advantage of all you will give, and then some. It's the nature of the disease.

If you want him out then rewriting the rules isn't a pressing issue. As was said previously, time's up!! 3 mo. was the agreement. He's a grown man, he'll figure it out.

When you do get him out, Alanon is still a great program for future use.
Let us know how it all turns out..

Christy

carolinagirl · ~*Service Worker*~

I know when I moved out and left my ex husband I feld fairly "evil" then too. I was miserable and felt mean all the time. As you practice setting boundaries and standing by the consequence no matter what it gets easier. I have to do it with three kids that I'm raising on my own now and still I'm the evil mom - hopefully they hate me now and love me later for it. People treat you the way you allow them to, they push to see how far they can go across the line and if you allow it they will push a little farther next time. Sounds like you already know what you need to do. I saw once on here that you were worried about messing up his AA program and you have to remember you can't cause someone to drink, you can't make him mess up on his program. It's his life, his responsibility and he's an adult he needs to figure out how to take care of himself. People become very resillient when they have to and very lazy when they're allowed to. I think that's just human nature not just the way of an A. I do think that A's are very immature and have a childish way of viewing the world that has been my experience and only time and trial and error can help that.

Evil_step_mom · Member

Update:
A discussion took place last night..............

Me: Right, how was the 2nd day at your new job?

Him: Good, I can't wait to get some money

Me: I bet you can't. The first thing you need to do with it is to insure your car.

Him: I can't do that, i've got so many other things I need it for.... even fixing the car comes before that.

Me & hubster: No, fixing it is a $20 job, insure it first, not only is it illegal, it's immoral to drive it around

him: I haven't been driving uninsured on purpose

Me: Yes you have. If you can't afford to insure it, don't drive it. Do nothing illegal was our only stipulation, and you've been flaunting that for weeks.

him: Well I wont park it at the house

Me: that's not solving the issue that driving it is illegal, the one thing we asked you not to do when you moved in. I wish we'd made a contract with consequences when you moved in, but we didn't. you need to either insure the car, or hand over the keys if you want to remain here. with the First pay packet you get.

Him: (mutter mutter "walking talking cancer" type stuff, moan, childish irrational arguments...........)

me: that doesn't change anything, you're a big boy, I'm sure you'll work something out.

he then walked the dog, and came back and said, i'll sort out the insurance.

So we'll see what happens in a couple of weeks.

Evil_step_mom · Member

Oh, and to partly answer my own initial question... I now have an imaginary "bull crap" buzzer... very useful when having conversations, as I hear bull crap, buzz the buzzer in my head and then say to him "are you listening to yourself" or "I don't think so" or "that's bull crap" or similar.

Also someone on this thread said when their A was talking they just had a picture of a walking talking cancer... that imagery is very useful.

Not having personal experiences any addicts before now, I have to remember I'm not talking to a 29 year old man, but a 29year old drunk.

So thanks for the help / advice so far

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.