Hello ,  everyone is welcome in Al-Anon regardless of religion or of none. I don't understand what part of that people don't get.  I came here believing in none and because of  Al-Anon and the gentle way it introduces" God of our understanding" I now have a God in my life who is running my  life.

 Preaching a particular belief would have driven me out of this program alone time ago . i have always appreciated the freedom that this program allows. And it is upsetting to me to read posts like this it just divides our purpose.

We are here to recover from the disease of alcoholism and to say that it ( 12 steps )keeps us in the same place and stuck is rediculous to me. I became unstuck several yrs ago , am still married to my  A. What anyone believes outside of a meeting is their business and it would be nice if the same respect were given to all.  We have enough to do changing our lives with out arguing over something  that is a personal choice and our literature makes that perfectly clear.

 

The way I understand it is that during an actual MEETING, only CAL approved literature is allowed, and we are to keep discussion of our therapy, church, etc to a minimum, while keeping the focus on ourselves. For instance, we could say "While talking to my therapist last week, such and such an issue came up, which made me think of how I apply such and such an alanon principle to my life..." much as we would say "Something happened at work last week which blah blah blah" . However, we would NOT say "My therapist says that those who live with Alcoholics should do such and such". The traditions are very clear about this, and there is a reason for it. We do not want to dilute the purpose of alanon, and we do not want to drive away those who can not, for whatever reason, share our outside interests. Our "Big Book" - "Al-Anon Family Groups" has a chapter specifically about this very issue.
However, so far as I understand it, talk outside meetings can be much more relaxed. Whether you are talking to an alanon friend on the phone, or here in the message boards, or during non-meeting chat, other issues can be raised. For example, we often see here in the boards the 'Getting Them Sober' books recommended, though they are not CAL. I don't really think that anyone has a problem with that.

There is another point, which might be helpful to bring up here. Tradition 2 states "For our group purposes there is but one authority - a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern."
The important words there in terms of this discussion are "our group conscience". If an issue is brought up and discussed among us, we will come to a concensus - that is the way God speaks to us. Sometimes it may take some time, if we start from widely differing viewpoints, but if we continue to talk, and to respect each other, the 'group conscience' will come to a decision.

I don't know what led to this posting, but when I read it I made a few observations.

Step 3 states: Made a decision to turn  our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him.

It doesn't day Buddah or Manu, or Jesus or anything in paticular, just of my own understanding.

Some of us are in so much pain when we come to alanon that to even believe in God was not even possible. The beauty of this program is that no matter who your HP is you can be in this program. I know that if Step 3 said Jesus instead a God of my understanding, my groups wouldn't have the members that it has now. Alot of members of my group have came to believe in the same God as I do, but slowly, with helaing, and trust, and the knowledge that he is there and loves them, and is not the vengeful God they thought him to be.

I also know that when I speak of my god at a meeting I am very careful to call him my HP. I know who I am talking about, and so does he, that's all that truly matters. I am just in alanon to share my E S &H and to listen to others.

And now for the part about the program becoming our lives. My program gave me life, but it is not my life. Because my "A" is my husband I am at times a single working mom, THAT IS MY LIFE. I come to alanon to enhance my life, to give me new tools and to share mine with others. I AM PROUD that I will be a very old lady and still come to alanon. NOT because I am dependent on it, but because of me. Because of the new comer. If it wasn't for the people who have been in this program for years, who would help the newcomer? How would alanon stay alive? My sponsor has been in the porgram for over 20 years, and there is nothing wrong with that. She is not dependent on the program, but right now, as she guides me through my steps, she is my life line. And I will be darn proud when I can give to someone what she gives to me.

The wisdom in these rooms and the f2f meetings all over comes from the newcomer and oldtimer alike. And for that I am forever grateful.

DolphinLur

Dear Sandy, I was in the room when the incident happened that you are talking about. As everyone else has said, Conference approved literature is the only reading approved in meetings.  Outside meetings and in chat, we can use whatever helps us through our day and what we thing might help others.  We can post all of the wonderful things we hear on the message board, or talk to people in meetings, or talk to our sponsors.  There are lots of places to share the things that help us with recovery. If you need a reason why we have conference approved literature in meetings, check the "How alanon works" book, and read about the traditions. The concepts and warranties also explain alot about alanon.

As for the amount of time I spend in meetings, I have been attending alanon for almost 13 years.  I have grown, and received much wisdom in those years from everyone...newcomer and oldtimer alike. I have learned to take what I like and leave the rest.  I can learn from someone I don't particularly like, and I can learn from the ones that I love as special friends and alanon family.  It's not my place to judge..that isn't what alanon is for.  If I had come to alanon only when I needed a "quick fix" for my problems nothing in my life would have changed. I keep coming back because I continue to learn about myself, and to pass on the words of wisdom I hear from other people in the program.  Do people that have a particular religion only go to church when they have a problem or crisis? No,they go frequently to stay in touch with the HP of their choosing. I go to alanon because I want to stay in touch with the HP of my choosing. I want to learn about me and to grow and my problems are not cured in a 6 week session.  It took me a long time to get the way I am, and it is going to take a long time to make me better.

Hope that you will understand and some day return to the chat rooms and alanon, Sandy, you are very welcome there. Progress not Perfection.  SenoraBob

David:

First of all, I'd like to thank you for extending the invitation of participating in chat at online meetings.  I do miss several of the people that I would chat with on occasion, BUT, when others in chat began being critical of my conversation with others OR others conversations with others if it did NOT involved Alanon specifically, that was when I knew it was time to walk away from here.  If a group is that structured to not allow people to be themselves and talk about whatever it is they want, need, and feel to talk about during chat, then I do not want any part of it.   That is a pretty good indication that shows its Alanon's way or no way.....  OH, that's not Alanon literature-- or Yikes, don't say that, it might offend someone--- Come On', isn't that what we deal with in our alcoholic relationships?  Let's be careful what we say, walk on eggshells, as not to offend anyone here (let's walk on eggshells not to offend our alcoholic-- detach)  That's what it is, detach ourselves from truly saying or feeling what we want to feel so that others are offended.   It's Alanons way or no way-- that should be the motto for some people here and I don't want a part of that because I don't want to be controlled by others who live ONLY by this program.  Couldn't that be classify a cult?  Hmmm, the definition of cult is, "5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion"

Of course, now it all makes sense to me.....  The scary things about cults is that when you have individuals that believe it is ONLY their way, then it does not allow a person to grow as thier own individual.  A cult is not limited to Religious material either.  Of course, as long as we are part of something, we feel like we belong, right?

You mention the following from A Purpose Driven Life, I too, have this book. 

"It is your job to protect the unity of your church"  "Unity is the soul of fellowship"  "God wants unity, not uniformity.  But for unity's sake we must never let differences divide us".  And one more.... "Conflict is usually a sign that the focus has shifted to less important issues, things the Bible calls "Disputable matters."  When we focus on personalities, preferences, interpretations, styles, or methods, division always happens".

I will say this in closing---  I did not appreciate, nor will ever appreciate any members of Alanon telling anyone else what they should or should not say during a share.  It is NOT THEIR business to be dictating to any individual.  Those who choose Alanon for support due to their pain-- that is completely accepted, but those who choose Alanon to dictate to others, IT MUST BE OUR WAY, Don't talk about that or this..... need to seek therapy for themselves and stop trying to control others.

This being said, I am done with this online program.  I pray for those of you who are truly in pain about your relationships or circumstances in your life, as my heart aches with yours....  However, let me say this.... There is ONLY ONE way to truly resolve what is causing you pain inside and that is your relationship with your HP.  It is not by following a course of instructions and giving so much power to a program that was ultimately written to specifically say our way is the ONLY way to recovery.

Take Care!

 

 

Sanddie -

My own moment of doubt seems to have re-opened a wound for you regarding meetings, I am sorry about that. When I posted in the other thread yesterday, it was because I was confused how on one hand Al-anon speaks of using only al-anon approved liturature in meetings and on the other it disregards this same edict in meetings by using a prayer from the Bible which is not, to the best of my knowledge, on any list of al-anon approved liturature. I don't even usually post to al-anon but since my particular issue was with a f2f al-anon meeting and I couldn't seem to find any help for my issue anywhere else, I came here hoping that someone could point in me in the right direction since I had never had an issue like this with any ala-teen or al-anon meeing I have ever participated in. I felt it would be inappropriate to take my issue with al-anon to a different group for a number of reasons, not the least being that if people don't attend al-anon how would they know what to do?

I have a hard time with the old "do as I say, not as I do" routine & for me, that is what my situation felt like to me. In essense, we can use a prayer from the Bible, but you cannot voice that its religous basis makes you uncomfortable because it's your own personality issue that is making you uncomfortable and nothing else. As long as I choose to continue to participate in al-anon, I will not sit quietly in a meeting and watch while some people choose to disregard the steps, traditions and concepts which smacking the hands of others who do the same. It's a spiritual conviction for me.

As for al-anon being a cult, it has been called that before by many other. But the truth is, almost any type of organized anything can be called a cult. I was watching a West Wing rerun last night of the 1st episode after 9/11 & this quote is rining loudly in my ears at the moment ... it went something like this: "I have no problem if a religion tells you that your beard has to be a certain length or how to cheer at a soccer game. What I do have a problem with is when not following those rules becomes a crime against the State." In other words, no one and I don't care who they are, has the right to tell anyone else how to run their recovery and that includes making any judgements, including a judgement as to when someone no longer needs to be in a meeting room. Whether I personally attend meetings or not, I can still carry the message of hope and recovery to others. Despite what anyone else in the world may think, my personal recovery is not dependant on attending ANY meeting.

I hate to post and run but I am late as it is.

Find peace,

Jenna

 Colossians 3:11  

Sorry... please below... thanks. RICHARD

-- Edited by richard at 08:57, 2005-05-02

In response to how Magic expressed, I don't go to a grocery store to get my car fixed when expressing the analogy of speaking of other recovery material during an Alanon share....

I guess that's where I am quite different from most, because if I were in a grocery store and the opportunity presented itself in meeting someone who could fix my car, I would definitely talk about fixing my car and making the arrangments.  Just as if I were anywhere else in the world and an opportunity presented itself to talk about any subject anywhere--- from cars to Jesus to my testimony of my life.

The greatest part of not only my recovery, but the ability to overcome the continued emotions that result from dysfunctional and unhealthy relationships has been the contribution of ALL material and not being limited in one particular group dictating what I can and cannot discuss during my share.

There isn't a day that goes by, nor a moment that goes by that I am not completely grateful for having God first in my life-- with that I am able to recognize that there should be no segregation of anything or anyone in this world, that we are all equal and that rather than deny the thoughts and expressions of other people outside of our realm of understanding, that we are accepting.  After all, we never know the lesson we will learn in hearing others share their innermost emotions and thoughts unrelated to Alanon.  To keep our focus ONLY on Alanon literature limits our ability to utilize all of our resources effectively to allow us to not only continue to recover from what takes our peace from us within, but keeps us dependent on that one and only source because it is our comfort zone. 

Ultimately, to trust our HP is the ONLY way to be CURED completely....   Have ya ever stopped and wondered if our HP ever wants to see how well we could handle being all by ourself should everyone leave our life?  I believe that would be the true test to how much we trust our HP.  Our relationship with HP is the ONLY way to make our lives stable---  Once balance and stability is achieved, everything else falls into place.  Not one organization can do that for you.  We are all in this world together and should be accepting of complete unity. 

 

Hello sanddie,

I've been thinking about all you have said and I used to have the same problem in my f2f groups. We do allow people to share whenever they truly are sharing. However, in my f2f groups, more often than not when the subject of religion comes up in a share then the person sharing has just switched from sharing their experience strenght and hope into lecturing the group. It becomes an attempt to control people and change their thinking. As evidenced by their sudden switch to the "you" word. "If you would just do this or did you know Jesus said this or did you know the bible says this?" That is not sharing. And although that is not the way it always happens that is the way it usually happens in my part of the country. People who show up with their bibles are usually tying to change us and the program to suit themselves.
That has been my 26 month experience in the f2f meetings I attend. Heck I tried to do it myself and was shot down early.

So I think I understand your point.

Sooner

I have no idea what has transpired, however I do know some people will get offended or uncomfortable with any terms of religion. In my humble opinion the term HP should be used and each person can interpret as they choose.

Alanon is not allied with any sect, denomination, political entity, organization or institution, does not engage in any controversy: neither opposes any cause. There are no dues for membership. Alanon is self supporting through its own voluntary contributions.

Alanon has but one purpose: to help familis of alcoholics. We do this by practicing the Twelve Steps, by welcoming and giving comfort to families of alcoholics, and by giving understanding and encouragement to the alcoholic.