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Okay, this is my first time on this site because this past month has been my first run in with an alcoholic. My father in law, Frank, moved in with us at the beginning of September. The reason we invited him to live with us is because he was suffering from falls, he told us his knees were bad, and we could tell he was lonely and depressed. A few weeks before he was scheduled to move in we had to have the police break down his apartment door and rush him to the hospital. He had suffered another fall and at that point we realized that alcohol was a contributing factor to his condition. He had a similar sitituation four years ago, but far worse because he was on the floor for over two days that time, this time was down to slightly less than two hours.
We tried to talk to Frank about the alcohol abuse, but he was in denial. Suddenly he was having second thoughts about moving in with us, but his doctor told him if he didn't come live with us he would have to have Frank sent to a care facility because his body was a wreck from his binge drinking. So Frank came home and all was well, he went thru physical therapy, and seemed happier. Then three weeks ago he had his birthday, and we noticed that his behavior was off. We didn't intially suspect alcohol abuse because we don't keep any in the house, but then Frank went from being a sweet, caring human being into a rage filled maniac. His abuse has been verbal, mostly directed at me because he seems to prefer blaming his problems on women (his two ex-wifes and my sister in law having been the previous targets for his rage). We spent a terrified night in our room while he slammed doors and made as much noise as possible to let us know that he did not appreciate us indicating that he was drinking. Despite the fact that we found alcohol in his cup, he stuck by his story that it was prescribed medicine or his other story that it was nyquil and valium that had him not feeling well. Then the next day he fell whilst I was home with him and I had to help him to his room.
He was apologetic and Aaron and I decided that he simply fell off the wagon, that maybe he thought that he could drink simply because so much time had passed. We didn't really say much after he sobered up, which in hindsight might have been poor judgement on our part.
Yesterday evening he started drinking again, and once again he fell, hitting his head and cutting his hand. This time Aaron got him to bed, and Frank seemed embarressed, but now Aaron and I were a little wiser, no longer believing that he has hit rock bottom and seen the error of his ways. Tonight, still drunk and probably filled with anti depressants he was once again verbally abusive, but only after going on a longwinded excuse as to why he has to drink (he's created some fantasy about having done some dirty work for Teamsters 38 yrs ago and now they are after him again and he is only drinking to forget his horrible actions in the past). He said that he needed to move out for our safety, but when we said okay he became angry because all he really wants us to do is allow him to drink in our house.
I just don't know what to do... if we kick him out it's pretty obvious he will drink and pop pills until he dies, he's come so close so many times already, if he stays than this pattern will just repeat and he could still end up dead. I just feel so lost and guilty. I know it's a disease, and I know that he needs to want help, but if something happens to him how do we deal with the guilt? If he stays does that make us enablers? I'm just really scared, because he's made threats of suicide, mostly to point out that we don't care but he suffers from depression so I don't know how serious to take him. Aaron and I are just at a lost...
EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL: been there done that, stayed for years living in the atmosphere of fear and guilt and violence because I was scared of the fact that my A would end up dead, taking his own life and I thought it would be because of me and I would not be able to live with his death on my shoulders for I would pick up the responsibility of HIS OWN ACTIONS and HIS CHOICE.
When I had had enough of having enough and the stress broke me down, I realised that HIS ACTIONS were HIS TO OWN and it would be HIS CHOICE if he chose to commit suicide.
I gave that responsibility back to HIM and had to change ME, my way of thinking and my way of picking up other responsibilities. That took me a further 15 years to do. Wasted years, that have resulted in my own health deteriorating further and therefore giving me a legacy of much great consequences to deal with now in my late fifties, which has resulted in poorer health.
ONLY you can decide if you want to OWN HIS RESPONSIBILITIES. IF HE TAKES HIS LIFE, it is HIS CHOICE, whether he is with you or not HE is accountable for HIS OWN ACTIONS.
I pray that you and Aaron will look to yourselves and your lives, realise that you need to LET GO LET GOD and LET YOUR F-i-L choose his own LIFE for you have only one life in this world.
Sent with much love for I know this is a real toughie.
Heartbroken
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"The highest form of wisdom is kindness." The Talmund
Don't blame yourselves for not saying anything to him earlier. In general, talk is not very useful towards alcoholics, especially when what you really have to say is "Please don't do this". Once you have thought about what your boundaries really are - what you will and will not put up with, and what you will do if those boundaries are crossed, there is not much point in talking to him.
Just an example of the kind of thing to think about - unless he is committed to a program of recovery, he WILL drink again. If he does drink, he WILL get drunk. Don't be led astray by promises or wishful thinking - he is not doing this TO you, he is not really doing this by choice. He has a disease, and denial of it is one of the symptoms.
It's not very easy to know where your boundaries are, all at once. This is where alanon comes in - we can give you some tools to use, in order to keep life as sane as possible, while you clarify your thinking. I urge you to read our literature, get to some face to face meetings, and spend some time reading old posts here, in order to get an idea of what choices you do have. Welcome.
Welcome to MIP and I'm sorry to hear of your experience with alcoholism. This must be very hard on you and your husband. I don't have too many wise words for you, but I can share my own experience and some of the things I've learned over time.
My husband is an alcoholic, we've been married for over 20 years and he's been actively gripped by the disease for the last 5 years. We have a teenage son. My son and I have watched our A become more and more harmed by the disease, with falls, cuts, scrapes, hospitalizations, hallucinations, dry periods, horrific periods etc. etc.
Both my son and I first felt that with our love and care, we could lead our A towards recovery. However, we eventually learned that the only things that could lead our A to recovery were the A and his Higher Power. This put us in a tough spot, since we needed to be comfortable with the fact that there was nothing we could do for him, except make ourselves more sane by going into recovery ourselves. There were times where we became nasty, judgemental, verbally abusive and disrespectful of our A, out of hopelessness. Needless to say, this didn't help either.
Now like you, I feel torn when I see the harm coming to my A, wanting to intercede to protect him, yet knowing from countless attempts previously, that it doesn't really help, and sometimes softens his fall into consequences of his own actions. I'm working on "detaching with love". I've found this very hard to define. So far, it means that if my A hurts himself, and is able to make a choice, I ask him if he wants me to take him to a hospital or doctor. If he says no, than I say, well I just want to let you know if you need some assistance, I'm happy to help get you there. Then I go about my business. Obviously, if he was unconsciousness, I would call an ambulence - as I would for anyone who is hurt. Part of the difficulty for me now, is that my A tries to involve me in his crisis by exaggerating the pain/hurt he feels. Because I have started to detach, he is trying to emotionally blackmail me into becoming enmeshed. There is a part of me that thinks "I should just tell him to leave", then I wouldnt have to deal with this at all. But there is also a bigger part that thinks "this is the man I love, controlled by a disease I hate". For now, I keep trying to offer support and love, without being enmeshed in his crisis. It's not easy, but that is my choice for now.
You and your husband have a journey ahead of you, working out where you stand on some of these issues and what is right for you. There is no "right answer", only what is right for you. I 've found that coming to MIP, as well as face to face meetings provided me with some tools to work on myself, and to think through what is right for me. It also made me feel less like an alien, to know that many are dealing with the very same issues I am dealing with. I still have my ups and some terrible downs, but I am getting better.
You have some wonderful feedback already. You are in a bad spot, I know. My A had lost so much weight from not eating that I was afraid he would have a stroke or heart attack. The denial they carry is truely baffling.
Anyway, you are in the right place. Keep coming here. Keep posting questions and read lots of other posts. Find a face2face meeting in your area. They have lots of liturature. Another thing that might help is to look up an open AA meeting. There you can talk to people who have been where your fil is now and they can help you understand.
Above all take care of yourselves. Nobody has the right to dominate you unless you let them. When an A goes into a tirade or threatens to kill themselves one thing you can do is call the police. According to the sober A's at the open AA meeting that I attend ocasionally, it is against the law here to threaten anyone with death even yourself. They say that if he is serious then you have done something to prevent him, if he is not then he learns that he cannot buffalo you with emotional threats. Anyway I don't know the law where you live but it is worth checking out, and it is a way to enforce your boundary.
You cannot stop his drinking, but you can decide what kind of behavior is acceptable in your house. I know it's not as simple as it sounds. Everyones answer is a personal decision. That's why we do not give advice. We share our Experience, Strength, and Hope and this helps you make a more informed decision.
In recovery,
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~Jen~
"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown
It's really sad that you and your husband are trying to help him out and he rages at you.
Guilt? You have given him a safe p[lace to live and taken him in. He has abused yoru generosity by drinking and thrashing his anger at you.
You aid if he did nt come and live with you, the doctor would place him in a facility. Perhaps that is the best solution for all. If he's in a facility, he won't havve free access to come and go and gt his alcohol. They can make sure he takes his meds properly and they can monitor his depressoin and such.
That sounds liek a good solution for you and your husband, He will be safe and taken care of yand you will be abel to sleep at night without worrying that he may drink and fall again.
Perhaps the care facility that the Dr. suggested isn't such a bad idea?
Reality is he is still falling down and that is why the Dr. wanted him in a facility. He is still falling down because he is still managing to drink. NOTHING you will do will stop him. He will find a way and have a reason for doing so (as you've already seen). Living with you isn't solving the problem and that's the reason he was asked to come in the first place.
Plan B?.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Welcome to MIP. I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this problem
I agree with Christy and Linda. I think that possibly your FIL would be better off in the facility. There at least they will be able to care for him medically, and he won't be at risk for any further falls.
One thing is for certain, you will not be able to stop him from drinking, unless he himself decides to get into a program. I have learned from this program that I can only concentrate on my own recovery, and there isn't anything I can do about my AH's drinking.
Since I have been with Al-Anon, I am a lot happier. When I started attending f2f meetings I had come to the end of my rope and felt that there was no place to turn.
Take Care of Yourself.
Love and Blessings,
Claudia
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A person's a person no matter how small --Dr Suess
Welcome to the MIP family. Lots of good replies here. For me, it has to come towhat is best for your family. How safe is your family with him there? As hard as itmight be to accept,an addict is gonna do what an addict is gonna do. There is nothing you can do about it. He has to hit his rock bottom (and that's probably not what you and I think it should be) before he climbs out of it. He might not. None of this is your fault nor your husband's. Please find some local face to face meetings. It will help you make decisions that are best for your family. Please stay safe. Love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty <-- the cat
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
Hi, some people just choose to drink/drug themselves to death and there's nothing anyone can do about it. If it were me I would send him to a nursing facility, he sounds very frail. They don't allow drinking/drugs there and someone would be there to make sure he took meds properly and didn't fall and be stuck for days. Seems like this is a larger burden than your family should have to bear. I don't know what is best for you though, but doing what's best for you is most important.
Thank you all so much for the words of comfort and wisdom! I shared your responses with my husband, and it helped us to come to an agreement about what to do about my father in law. He managed to sober up again, and this time he acknowledged the drinking and the dangers of mixing his pills with alcohol. We told him that we loved him, but that we can not tolerate his drinking and abuse. He has agreed that it's a problem, which I think is a huge step for him.
He is planning on getting his knee surgery done, and then in September he will move into a retirment community. I think being surrounded by people of his own age will help him with his lonliness. He can stay with us in the meantime provided he does not falter from his goal of staying healthy and alcohol free. I'm not as optimistic as I once was, because I know now that he can stray from his path at anytime. But we have also spoken to my husband's siblings and they will support us if the time comes when Frank will need to leave our home before September.
Aaron and I also plan on moving to Texas in September or October (we currently live in Oklahoma). My family all lives in Virginia, and as much as we love them, and Aaron's family here in Oklahoma, we are starting to recognize a pattern of trying too hard to fix our families problems. We really want to start our own family and it's given us a goal to work towards, just as Frank is working towards his goal of getting knee surgery. He actually went to the doctor this morning to see about it. It turns out he has a bad chest infection, but the doctor has prescibed some medicine and once he clears that up his doctor will set up an appointment with another doctor for his knees. I don't know if it's enough to get Frank to stay sober, but Aaron and I know that it's his battle to wage. The guilt is still there a bit, but honestly this site has already made a huge difference!
Thank you all soooooo much! And I do plan on sticking around, without regard to Franks sobriety. Even if he does well, there is always issues to discuss, and maybe support and comfort I can give all you wonderful people. :)
