The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
AH and I are talking. He is about 24 hours sober. I know he is jittery and hurting-- we've been through this game a few times before. We are talking about stuff that bugs him-- like piles of items in various rooms in the house that he doesn't like looking at. This from a guy who has either been passed out asleep or staring vacantly at a tv for the last 10 days. I told him that I feel he has no right to criticize me one bit at this point. He is totally offended by this statement. Like how dare I tell him not to criticize me? What is up with that!?! He lies and drinks and uses drugs and is basically a nonparticipant in life-- but he gets to criticize me!!! I feel he should be grovelling and apologizing (with sincerity, of course). Life with A's-- its a blast! Detach with love (define love!) the crazy thing is that I feel so calm typing this. thanks for being here- xxoo Jeanne
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In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip.- Daniel L. Reardon
I'm so sorry for what you are contending with; I completely understand your frustration. I was there for so many years.
In reflection, I have learned 1) you can't reason with an active A, regardless if he hasn't drunk for X number of hours or days. 2) I learned to not take what he said personally (detach) 3) I kept in mind that he couldn't think clearly and most likely did not mean what he said. 4) I also reminded myself that he was a very frustrated, sad person. 6) I got to the point where I'd calmly tell him that I would not discuss anything with him if he became verbally abusive; this resulted in us not talking at all.
I found the last few months that I lived with him, I got calmer because I didn't allow myself to get caught up in his negative analysis of me. The calmer I got, the easier it was for me to get in touch with "my" answers.
I left (filed for a divorce, because I truly thought that he'd never, ever attempt to change). Our divorce is on hold. He is working his program. We see each other usually on weekends. So far, he is like his old self. But I realize that he has so much work to do for the rest of his life.
If I had not defined my boundaries and enforced them, he'd still be verbally abusive, drinking heavily, driving under the influence, probably would have lost his job (he came close!) and I'd be crying and feeling like S ----. Those days were horrible.
The more distance I have from my A, the more perspective I have on this subject. When I was in "the trenches" with him I thought constantly that he had no right to have a negative opinion about ANYTHING concerning me, considering all I've endured. And besides...... LOOK AT HIM!!! Now that I have about a minute of recovery (and sweet distance), I sometimes think how little dignity I must have allowed him. Yes...his life was a mess...yes, I picked up the destruction he left behind (oh the destruction!)...but maybe he's still allowed to have an opinion. Is it fair for him to spew it AT you any way he wants? No way. Set up your boundaries and keep them firm. But maybe allow him the right to his opinion.
I've been there, felt that. It's not very helpful, though. One thing I learned in alanon was that I am responsible for my own behvaiour.
It's so easy to blame everything on the A, because here they are, doing the most outrageously hurtful and damaging things, and here WE are, maybe yelling at the kids a bit, gaining weight, nagging - NOTHING, comparatively, right? Trouble is, they are responsible for their actions, and we are responsible for ours. Dammit.
If there is something in your lives that is causing tension, and you have a hand in creating it, take an honest look at it, preferable with the help of a sponsor (so you are neither to hard nor too easy on yourself). Find out what part of it is yours, and do what you can to work toward solution. This is what you are expecting him to do, you can do it too.
round3 and lin0606 brought out some very important truths that I also learned: 1) The A has a right to his or her opinion. Their opinion might not be a good fit for me, and that is okay. I remember telling him that. I remember telling him that during the rare times that he was not drinking and somewhat lucid. 2) I had to look at how I was keep the chaos alive. (a counselor helped me do this). Hard as it was to admit at times, I became aware of the fact that I was doing things to feed the fire. I owned up to my share of the mess. I still tell my recovering AH that it was a 50/50 deal. We both messed up. Big time! I truly believe it. I know that when a nonA is in the middle of turmoil, it is almost impossible to see that because all the focus goes onto what the A is doing wrong. But learning to get truly quiet (mind) I saw these truths. I learned to quiet my mind through the practice of yoga. Yeah, sounds 'hairy-fairy.' But true. I used to practice yoga for gaining body strenghten and flexibility. But I really develed into it and saw that it can do for the mind what is did for my body. It was not easy! Practice, practice, and more pracitice.
LOL, I remember him and his whole high horse thing. I'd say you know what? If you don't like it then go ahead and take care of that. IE you don't like the piles clean em up, you don't like laundry left on the table after folding then put it away! I'm sure those piles are a great excuse to drink/use too. I think they all do this I just blow it off and say well go ahead and do something about that if it bothers you.
Oh yes, I know exactly what you mean, and it is frustrating, especially when our downfalls seem so minimal in comparison. In my situation, it took me a while to realize there was a lot of truth in my ah's statements and that they were legitimate. However, I was also in a no-win situation and he would find problems no matter what.
When I first kicked him out, he would complain he had issues because the house was messy. Once he was gone and I was more organized, he complained that he was mad because now it was clean and he wasn't there. It went on and on like this. I'd change one thing and he'd find something new. I finaly realized that being critical like this was just another way of pushing the blame/guilt off onto me so that he could be relieved some of the burden. He had so much anger, I was always going to fall short.
So, I agree with the others that we can only change us. Now if my ah comments on something that appears valid, I consider it, if not, I let it go.
-- Edited by Loupiness at 09:47, 2008-01-23
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Every new day begins with new possibilities. It's up to us to fill it with the things that move us toward progress and peace. ~ Ronald Reagan~
Sometimes what you want to do has to fail, so you won't ~Marguerite Bro~
thanks everyone for your replies. I agree that AH has a right to have an opinion. I have a right to disagree with it. Feelings are not facts.
I am just tired of the insanity. I want a "boring" "normal" life please.
I just don't understand my role in this marriage anymore. I know more about what I am not supposed to do-- but I don't get what I should do (except work on me and take care of the kids needs) I know that I am not his sponsor, mentor, counselor,mother -- but I also feel less and less like a friend, lover or anything besides housemate.
I'm spinning my wheels here and looking for answers and permission to behave poorly. I know that there are no clearcut answers. I know that HP has my back so I just need to let go and ride the wave. take care- Jeanne
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In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip.- Daniel L. Reardon
hi gnee , I was told that I should listen to my husb occasionally he was right !!! that went over really well sheeeeesh , but today i know they are right . 24 hrs sober is not sober , someone told me along time ago that when they sober up we don't look so good . hrmppph was my reply to that one too . again they were right . I understand your anger at his darring to point out your defects as he sees them but a simple thanks for pointing that out I will work on it stops an argument real quick . sometimes it hurts to get that out but if he continues in sobriety his picking you apart will stop . as he gets looking at his own stuff . I tried to use How Important is This ??? before reacting to any statement from hsb , is it important enough to argue over and upset the whole house ? most times it wasn't . I learned to give my husb 3 min of my undivided attention when he is upset , if he is talking about something I havent done or he would like me to do I owe it to h im to listen , but if he is jumping all over the place pointing out what I used to do in the past , i know that his anger is not about me he is just having a bad day and wants to fight to make him feel better . So since I quit wanting to make him feel better hehe , it was easy for me to say - sorry your having a bad day but I would like u to take your attitude somewhere else . and not always that polite either . hang in there gnee he is stark raving sober . whic h is hard on every one . Louise
I think its also projection. The A I lived with was incredibly critical of me. He is a total slob but projected that on me. He expected me to cook, clean, slave after him. Did he reciprocate nope. He was always complaining about me. I see that as an incredible red flag now.
When I meet someone with huge expectations I run for the hills. I don't know that I call it a game. I don't know that anyone is "sober" unless they are working a program. Absence of alcohol/drugs is one small part of it. If someone is dry they can be incredilby irritable with no ability to look at themselves.
I also know that I had incredible magical expectations of the A. I expected him to change. He never did. He had moments when he was "better" but he also had moments when he was much much much much worse.
They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks-drinks which they see others taking with impunity. No no, that wasn't mean at all. Good boundries and you put the focus back on him. Right where it belongs. He's sober. I was always taught not to try to talk while someone is drunk. Its useless. The first few hours after a hangover are about the only time an alcoholic is open to suggestion. That was a good boundry to lay at a criticle time. Leave it lie. It will not need to be repeated. In fact the refusal to repeat it will help reinforce it. Repitition sounds manipulative and weakens our point.
This is from The AA Big Book. page 117. Bill and Lois had some disagreemnets that Bill wrote the Chapter to wives. In the paragrapgh before this he suggests a wife try to avoid fights. I'm sure Lois would have disagreed but I think bill lays a good guidline here and it seems you were within it.
I don't know why we should bare the burden but perhaps we should discuss that here instead of with them. At least, "Just for today". :)
