The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Not trying to beat a dead horse - but I find this love issue interesting to explore. I think everyone has different definitions of love - and I like everyone's analogy with TV/movies. I'm so guilty of making that comparison to my own life.
I've had the opportunity (like many of you) to have known the A through the years. I knew him for the first time 30 years ago when we were in high school & college. We re-connected 14 years ago (for three more years), then finally had a long distance relationship for the past year or so.
I think my A loved me each time, but I witnessed how that love was presented. As his disease progressed, he became different, and if I had met him for the very first time last year, I wouldn't have believed that he was even capable of having deep feelings.
I have every reason to believe that my A loved me 30 years ago. Some things you just know in your soul. I know he did. Plus the fact that he didn't "need" me for anything. No ulterior motives. No manipulation. No "reason" to lie to me about that. In addition he was amazingly loving and gentle and rock-solid with me during a time I really needed him back then. This was before alcoholism had captured him. Drinking...yes. But in a high school/college kind of way, and I actually don't have any recollection of his being really drunk back then or even drinking too much. But then he broke up with me. And he did so to attain that almighty "freedom" that so many are in search of. He got his freedom. And he "freedomed" himself into oblivion through his escalating drinking. And did it ever escalate!! After we broke up, I got some incoherent, disjointed, kinda scary, kinda sad telephone calls for a few years. I never stopped loving him, but I was all too aware that something was horribly wrong. Something I couldn't fix.
The second time we were together, we were both coming off of other marriages, and him off of six years of sobriety. That time, I fell in love with a man, whose first love was clearly ALCOHOL. I think he loved me that time, too, but it presented itself very differently. It was all or nothing with him. Either I should love him unconditionally or I didn't really love him. I loved him unconditionally and wrecklessly. After nearly 3 years, he had taken everything out of me. Everything. The alcohol was full time, numero uno in his life. He had been in four different treatment facilites during that time - and he just wore me out. I believe he loved me, though, but his capacity to love was so affected by his alcoholism. It wasn't possible for him to see much beyond himself. His sober days were gifts. His drunk days were just sad.
This most recent round with him was from overseas. He had a year sober while we explored the possibility of re-uniting. But I couldn't help but notice that his emotions were dulled. There were no real "highs" in his emotions anymore. He told me he loved me and always had, told me he wanted to live life with me, and we had some wonderful conversations. He's a very bright, gentle man with a tremendous sense of humor - but he lacked fire in his emotions this time. Did he love me any less this time? I don't know. Did alcohol rob him of feeling anything deeply? I think it did. I know for sure it robbed him of an easier life. He's had a tough time of it. Maybe that took away the spark? Either way.......alcohol seems to have everything to do with it.
What I've learned through all of this rollercoaster ride of emotions is that we have no control over what other people feel for us (or don't feel for us). We can bang our heads against the wall all day long, but it won't change a thing. We have to decide what we're going to do with our own selves and our own lives. This is all so new for me. I'm learning that maybe it doesn't matter if I KNOW whether or not I was loved by my A. How important is that really anyway??? All I can ever really KNOW is how I feel. HP is in charge of the rest. And I need to give it to him once and for all!!!
This has always kept me tied up in knots for some reason. Thanks for letting me explore this.....
Love is the one thing that holds the world together, Love is the ability to see past oneself and reach out to another, Love is compassion wrapped up by grace, the grace that enables forgiveness and concern for others. Love between two people is a special bond that grows and changes with time, maturing or withering, nurturing or all consuming, and all levels in between. Love has a million facets and movitates or destroys and MUST BE HANDLED WITH CARE FOR THE GOOD OF THE HEART.
I could write a book on this, however my brief abstract illuminates the diversity. My belief is: "Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all."
Of course there is a wonderful definition that is often used at weddings:
"Love suffers long and is kind, love does not envy, love does not parade itself, is not puffed up, does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil, does not rejoice in iniquity but rejoices in truth, hears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, Love never fails."
To my mind, many of us here could say that we have lived a lot of this definition when we keep on keeping on, supporting, listening, suffering, believing and encouraging, giving, trying to understand, and hoping against all the odds that things will improve and get better.
Love requires us to LOVE ourselves in order to LOVE others and I guess that is what is the most important lesson we can learn here.
So I say - all power to LOVE, for it benefits all, give it, share it, receive it in however a diluted or exhalted form it is possible according to your ability.
Brilliant post. Thank you.
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"The highest form of wisdom is kindness." The Talmund
I came to the conclusion years ago that it didn't matter wether or not my dad loved me, because I loved him. And to me that's all that mattered. I loved my dad. My mother told me he didn't love me and I believed her though in my heart I tried to figure out how she might be wrong. Till I came to the place in my heart and head where it didn't matter if he did or didn't. I loved him! I began to act loving towards him, call him, see him and ya know what? He did love me! Always had! Maybe not how I wanted him to, but he loved me and told me that and from that time on I told him everytime I talked to him that I loved him. That relationship that started out warped for many reasons became the most powerful, loving relationship I have ever had in my life.
I loved my ex and he loved me to the best of his ability. I love unconditionally my kids. I am working on acceptence and compassion. I have lost so much love, I have hate in my heart, and to carry that around is exahusting. I am sick of it. Acceptence is the most powerful form of love there is. I am working on acceptance.
Excellent post and I really like all the replies so far too. I know that my A and I started with a great love but now I am learning compassion. I agree that we must love ourselves first but find that self love gets lost or dwindles as we are affected with our part of the disease. Being around the negativity, never feeling good enough and many other symptoms of the family of an A, erodes most everything.
I also believe in love, Heartbroken and that love can make things happen, serendipity. What wonderful shares from both of you.
I had been upset that I was a sucker believing in the loving notes I had recieved in the past. I lumped the good, the bad and the ugly together as I was upset. I believe many things were good but it is when good words are used to get past an unresolved issue that made me feel fooled. Time can appear to heal all wounds but do they really heal if they (the issues) are not looked at directly, dealt with,& addressed rather than send flowers or do something nice instead or use nice words to just get past it all. For me the issues don't go away, they pile up but I guess I will not have such a pile if I keep learning how to deattach.
At my first f2f meeting when I was quite distraught about the whole mess with the A, an old timer read a page out of the ODAT (I think) to me about love. Then he encouraged me to appreciate all the little bits of love I found with A. Kind of confused me then but makes more sense as I go along.
hugs, ddub
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"Choices are the hinges of destiny." Pythagoras You can't change the past, but you can change the future.
For me its fantasy vs reality. In fantasy I believe love can conquer all. In reality I know no matter how much I "loved" the A or he loved me (and I think he did love me on some levels), I cannot cure his alcoholism. Neither can he cure my codependence. I can help certainly. I tried to help but in codependence I did not help in the a good way, I helped in a bad way.
My intentions were certainly honorable and kind but I did not have the skills, psychological strength or the resources to deal with his alcoholism. Now I have far more skills, resources and support and I'd have to say if I met an alcoholic I would not take it on. That is a formidable challenge and I don't have it to take it on anymore.
"What I've learned through all of this rollercoaster ride of emotions is that we have no control over what other people feel for us (or don't feel for us). We can bang our heads against the wall all day long, but it won't change a thing. We have to decide what we're going to do with our own selves and our own lives". --round3
"Love requires us to LOVE ourselves in order to LOVE others and I guess that is what is the most important lesson we can learn here". --heartbroken
"I have lost so much love, I have hate in my heart, and to carry that around is exahusting. I am sick of it. Acceptence is the most powerful form of love there is. I am working on acceptance". --serendipity "Time can appear to heal all wounds but do they really heal if they (the issues) are not looked at directly, dealt with,& addressed..." --ddub
"For me its fantasy vs reality. In fantasy I believe love can conquer all. In reality I know no matter how much I "loved" the A or he loved me (and I think he did love me on some levels), I cannot cure his alcoholism". --maresie
"Love as God loves." --Jerry F.
Wow.......You guts blow me away with your experience, strength and hope. What a wonderful post and responses full of growth.
Thanks so much for the thread round3... I am really moved by all of you.
love, Heartbroken and that 