The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
We often say in Alanon that we shouldn't give advice, or tell anyone what to do - just share our experience, strength, and hope.
Of course that means we give advice/suggestions all the time. Sometimes more benignly than others, but... we do it. We're not perfect.
I think it's partly a Mars/Venus thing... men are more prone to being short-span listeners; we'll listen to someone only until our brains assemble a "problem definition", and then respond once we have come up with a "solution" to propose.
It's really, really difficult for me to do otherwise. I'm getting better. I'm a people pleaser and a fixer, I'm very accustomed to people in my life and in my work coming to me to fix a problem. My interactive skills are built and practiced around obtaining a clear problem definition and quickly arriving at a solution.
Although initially it was very difficult, Alanon is a nice break from that way of being for me. Even in that situation, I could be a really popular guy by making all kinds of suggestions, but that goes beyond ES&H and into the realm of advice and meddling. It's sometimes a fine line.
I remember the first time I saw someone in a meeting - so upset she could barely get the words out, sharing her pain and her situation. And as we went around the room and everyone shared, I remember thinking hey, she needs action... NOW... not warm fuzzies and sympathy. My brain is cranking away on do-this, do-that, and then the person who started the topic shares again, how much better she feels and is so glad she came to the meeting... and my brain is still thinking whatt??? She has no solution, she hasn't made a decision, there's no action... but she feels better??
That was part of "getting it" for me in Alanon. Realizing that most of us don't suffer from a lack of advice. We've had it heaped upon us from every direction since birth, and look where it's gotten us. What we need most is a safe place, a sympathetic ear, shared experience, strength, hope... and love. And we will take action, when we are ready. Acting, not re-acting (and following advice blindly is jut another form of reacting).
Many of us come to Alanon with a shopping list of questions that we want answers for. And we go home with the blanks unfilled. But if we keep coming back, we get the serenity and self-interest back, and once we can see clearly from our *own* perspective, unclouded by the A... or even our friends in Alanon, then we can make the decisions that only we have the right to make.
When I first came to Al-Anon, I was very full of hurt & pain, but also very full of myself.... I went to meetings, and silently "solved" everyone else's problems in my own head, arrogantly thinking that this person "should" do this or that....
I worked through this issue with my sponsor, who showed me that not only was this arrogance getting in the way of my recovery (i.e. I was focussing way too much on what others needed to do, and it was a great way to avoid what I needed to do), but also it was proof positive that I am trying to "control" things, meetings, etc.... It took me awhile, but he was sooooo right on the money.... After some time, I found that I was gaining much more value from meetings, these discussion boards, etc., and that I can literally learn from every single person, if I keep myself open to doing so....
Today, with the A in recovery, and for the most part out of my day to day life, I don't go to as many meetings, and I sometimes catch myself falling into my old habits and arrogance.... I try hard to keep this in check, as I truly don't know anymore, nor any less, than anyone else around this complex subject of addiction.....
Thanks for sharing
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I do try not to give advice or "control" others. I know when I watch some of my roommates acting out where that will take me. One has a controlling relationship with another. She dote son her and tells her what to do and believes she is having some influence on her life. Today I know I absolutely cannot tell anyone what to do. I can set limits certainly but telling someone how to live their life I am not going there. I don't say anything much to my roommate about her controlling behavior. She's always had it and has to be at a point where she wants to give it up. I have absolutely no doubt she thinks I am selfish for focusing on me. The more I detach from my roommates the better. Some days it is very hard because they are so dysfunction but then so am I.
I know when I see my own behavior (controlling, anger out of control, being a victim) mirrored I am in shock and horror so I guess that is one reason why HP has me here. I'm willing to learn whatever it is I have to learn to get out of here.
I was trying to figure out how to get you both, barisax and canadian guy to speak about this at our f2f or speaker meetings........ or at the least to my AH.
Great topic and add the Venus version of how to stop fixing everything except your own side of the street, then it would resonate for all. I vote add it to a required communication class at the high school level at least. And I am serious!!
Thanks for sharing and breaking it down like this. I really like when someone can put words to thoughts I can't figure out how to explain.
-- Edited by ddub at 00:29, 2008-01-15
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"Choices are the hinges of destiny." Pythagoras You can't change the past, but you can change the future.
I was trying to figure out how to get you both, barisax and canadian guy to speak about this at our f2f or speaker meetings........ or at the least to my AH.
You know, I don't think I've ever been to an Alanon speaker meeting. They are far less common than AA speaker meetings. Not sure why. I've heard Alanon speakers a couple times as part of a combined event, with a married AA & Alanon both talking, but never in Alanon by itself.
Most of the time - in AA or Alanon - I prefer the discussion format where everybody gets a chance to share. Part of that is selfish - I often want to get a word in myself - but also due to my attention span, I find it much easier to listen and comprehend if the speaking voice changes every few minutes - for some reason once any person talks past the 5-10 minute mark, my mind wanders and I just don't hear them. But when there's a break, and a new voice starts talking, I'm all ears. Just one of my quirks and probably why I never did very well in school... LOL. Every once in a while, I'll be at a meeting, or at some non-AA presentation where the speaker can really hold my attention... either because I'm very actively absorbed by the subject matter, or just because the person is a very good public speaker.
barisax wrote:I think it's partly a Mars/Venus thing... men are more prone to being short-span listeners; we'll listen to someone only until our brains assemble a "problem definition", and then respond once we have come up with a "solution" to propose...
I remember the first time I saw someone in a meeting - so upset she could barely get the words out, sharing her pain and her situation. And as we went around the room and everyone shared, I remember thinking hey, she needs action... NOW... not warm fuzzies and sympathy. My brain is cranking away on do-this, do-that, and then the person who started the topic shares again, how much better she feels and is so glad she came to the meeting... and my brain is still thinking whatt???She has no solution, she hasn't made a decision, there's no action... but she feels better??
That was part of "getting it" for me in Alanon. Barisax
Thank you for this Barisax...it illuminated a really big problem that I have always had in trying to understand just what the difference was between the sexes that made each respond so differently.
BOTH are as equally valuable to each other, neither would be complete without the other, however I am so grateful for this share for it will help me in the future to understand the different approaches and the two very necessary approaches to listening and responding.
This is the reason why I do not think a discussion is as valuable if only one of the sexes is present and participating.
healing - Heartbroken
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"The highest form of wisdom is kindness." The Talmund
This is the reason why I do not think a discussion is as valuable if only one of the sexes is present and participating.
I agree. I've never been to a men-only Alanon meeting (do any exist?). I have been to Alanon meetings where I was the only guy - numerous times. And I've been to a few all-male AA meetings, some by design and some just by happenstance. The all-male meetings by design are predictable - guys talk about stuff that they wouldn't otherwise talk about in mixed company. They tend to be pretty hard core. I don't feel the need to do a meeting like that regularly, in fact the only one I've been to more than once is a couple thousand miles away so I go there only when I'm in town - that's about right. I assume that women-only AA meetings are similar, in that they talk about things they wouldn't talk about in mixed company.
I know that the male-dominated environment of AA can be hostile to women... especially those who are new, vulnerable, and attractive. And I can see why women-only meetings were created. However, I would never recommend that anyone - male or female - try to stay sober by attending only same-sex meetings. Or only gay meetings if gay, etc... the message is in the variety. I could never have "gotten" AA from just my sponsor, or even from the 50 people that were present at my first meeting. I've gotten it from hundreds if not thousands, and my sponsor and other oldtimers steered me that way, by taking me to many different types and locations of meetings.
Alanon usually doesn't have the variety of choices and meeting styles that AA does, except perhaps in very large metropolitan areas and even there, you might have to do some driving to get variety. But I feel I can always recommend Alanoners attend open AA meetings if they want to just get the fellowship and the recovery environment, but no Alanon meeting is within reach.
Oh yeah... I did once go to a gay AA meeting. With my daughter. We were the only "straight couple" there, although we were "straight", not really a "couple". It was exactly like any other AA meeting... it was about resentments, relationships, staying sober... wouldn't make it my home group but I'd certainly go back again if I was in that neighborhood.
And I am serious!!