"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

RainyJamie · Senior Member

I'm Guilty

thinkstoomuch · Senior Member

It sounds like you feel you were MORALLY obligated to call the police. So then the question to ask yourself might become - why didn't you?

If the answer is, you want more information about how such a call would be received, then call the police station, - from a neutral place if you like, not your house or cell - and ask them - what happens if I call you and tell you I know so and so has just driven off very drunk?

And then let us know what they said aww

.

For what it's worth, I do NOT think you were morally obligated to hide the keys. It gets right back into the attempt to control, for one thing, and for another, what if he found them - or hit you - and left anyway, only now he's drunk AND mad? To me, calling the cops - while not cut and dried - is not controlling in the same way. To me, that's doing what I can do, and letting go of the results. I have in fact heard ppl share that they HAVE called, and cops either didn't look or in any case didn't find the A. So it's not your call CAUSING them to get caught. I see the distinction this way: If I hide the keys, I am doing it SO THAT he won't drive drunk. If I call the cops, I am doing it SO THAT the COPS make the decision to stop or not stop a drunk driver. The first is getting in the way of consequences; the second is enhancing the odds of a particular consequence, but not directly causing it.

Diva · ~*Service Worker*~

Rainy, I think we are all morally obligated to attempt to stop drunk driving. I am not criticizing you for not doing so, only telling you what I would have done.

I have stood in my A's face and declared, "You are NOT taking a car. If you must leave, WALK!" I have seen him reel out the door and down the street. And that's fine. I feel that I could not live with the maining or death of an innocent soul, knowingly having let him drive drunk. If he did it and I knew, I would notify the police. So what if he finds out? A life saved is worth it.

THink about the wrong-way drunk driver who killed a mom and four of her kids just a week or so ago. God, I hope no one knew he was drunk and let him get behind the wheel.

Diva

-- Edited by Diva at 10:09, 2008-01-11

Loupiness · ~*Service Worker*~

Somtimes it takes an event when we realize we goofed big time, to launch us into clarity. You can't change the past, but can take the opportunity to learn and do different in the future. Let go of your guilt. It's a new day.

Blessings,
Lou

-- Edited by Loupiness at 10:20, 2008-01-11

Heartbroken · Senior Member

I believe that I cannot tell anyone what to do, I can only offer my opinion and that goes to both the A, who I cannot stop from taking the car and driving but I can tell the A that I would be obliged to call in and report him for it if he decides to do it, or you Rainy for it is your decision to make.

I happen to believe that I have a moral obligation to report a drunk driver. He can risk his own life for that is his business, but he has no right to risk anyone else's life. I would NOT be able to live with myself knowing that that person might kill another person because of their inebriated state that seriously reduces their capabilities whilst in the driving seat of a car.

I see it as a two sided coin.

If he drives, then I act on my moral code and I pray that the police will throw the book at him.

If he does not drive the car, then thank the Lord he is thinking about the consequences and has most likely reduced the dumb balance by one more drunk drive accident from taking place.

Heartbroken.

maresie · ~*Service Worker*~

The A i was with for 7 years was a reckeless driver. He crashed into lots of stuff. I am thankful he never hurt anyone. Last year he hit and ran from someone. He was taken to court over it and I still dont' know what happened about that. The hit and run was one of the last straws for me. I spent years and years in the state you are in, totally upset and anxious and wondering what is my part in this. The issue for me was that the A had a truck I bought (there is a long long story behind this). I found it really really hard to write off the truck. I lost a friend over that because I would obsess and find myself totally distraught over it. Eventually this good friend could not hear me be distraught anymore.

For me the issue is when I can step out of my codependency if I am in relationship with someone who is so self destructive what am I doing to take care of me. These days I have severed all ties with the A. I hav no claim on he truck. I was grateful this month not to get the $300 registration bill i paid faithfully for the last 6 years or so. I am not grateful that the A destroyed the truck of course but I am grateful to have my life.

I almost lost my life in depression, anxiety and tremendous ever escalating fear being around someone who was that self destructive. I became isolated, angry, morose. I could not work (as you indicated it does take over everything). I spent all day wondering what the A was going to do next.

The A I was with is well known to the police and the authorities as a reckless driver. I do not have to report him. He's already been reported numerous times. I do not have control over when and if he is prosecuted or what the authorities choose to do about his driving without a license whatever he has to deal with. Indeed I have had to confront myself that when I met the A he was driving despite the fact his license was suspended.

I have limits. I will no longer go into that zone where you in tremendous fear, anxiety and pain. I will not do that in a relationship. I've done it. I did it for 7 years. Nowadays if a relationship of any kind causes me a lot of pain (my current boss for example) I work on ways to get out.

I absolutely do not deserve to have anyone put their life messes on me, a boss, a boyfriend, a co worker, a neighbor, whoever. If someone crosses that boundary with me I pay attention. I no longer accept it. I take action. I did not do that for most of my life and that is the biggest change in my life this year.

Maresie.

barisax · Senior Member

I don't see how it's possible for anyone to stop someone from doing something they are determined to do.

I remember one morning many years ago, when my then-wife and I attempted to "make" our 12 year old daughter go to school. We were on the verge of getting in trouble due to her truancy, and so we tried to drag her - kicking and screaming, literally, to the car.... between the two of us we outweighed her 4 to 1, and we used no force other than grabbing her by the arms - which is as much as I would have done physically. For our trouble we ended up bruised (and ears ringing) and she still didn't go to school. If 400 lbs of determined adult couldn't get 90 pounds of psychotic teenager to go to school, I don't see how your average spouse is going to prevent his/her average spouse from getting behind the wheel if they are determined to do it. That little demonstration was the only "physical" encounter I experienced in my marriage and had no desire to ever repeat it.

The school and cops had both told us, if she won't go to school, call us. My wife would never do that on her own kid, so we dealt with the consequences of being "bad parents" and all that.

If I found myself in a situation where I had a drunk person determined to drive, and I wasn't able to either talk them out of it or confiscate the keys, I'd stand aside... and call the cops before their taillights were out of sight.

I did this one time with the same daughter (then 17), a few years later. She left sober (with brother and sister)... bro and sis came home via another ride around 11, saying she had started drinking and taken off to a party. Cops didn't find her though, she showed up drunk and high at 3:30 am wondering why the door was locked, acting all innocent and I took her keys away. She didn't drive one of my vehicles again until she was 25 and 5 years sober... LOL...

Barisax

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

That is one of my biggest "guilt trips" from my experience and recovery, in that I "allowed" my then-active wife do drive drunk many times, and she even did it with our preciious children in the vehicle on more than one occasion. It just represents how screwed up our own sense of right & wrong can become, dealing with all this muck...
For myself, I put an end to her driving with the kids, but she still managed to get out once in awhile and drive herself while intoxicated....

There is certainly no legal obligation for you - but as others have suggested, more of our own "moral" sense of the right thing to do. As you say, the feelings of remorse if something were to happen (i.e. he kills somebody) could be life altering and overwhelming for any of us..... Not an easy situation at all...

Tom

Tenderheartsks · ~*Service Worker*~

"I happen to believe that I have a moral obligation to report a drunk driver. "

I completely agree with this.

My 19 year old daughter came home quit intoxicated a couple of weeks ago late at night.

That completely threw me in a loop by itself.

Then she grabbed some clothes and headed back out the door.

My gut told me to pick up the phone and call the cops.

I didn't do it. I let my emotions grab ahold of me and I was full of fear and panic.

I called my sponsor the next day, and I know what I have to do if that ever happens again. I will call the cops before she's even down the street.

wahineal · Newbie

I called the police once on my A. i have spent months and months trying to defend my actions to his friends and family. They all seem to think I'm some sort of crazy bleep for calling the cops. he got arrested.

i don't know anymore what the right thing to do is. Possibly if we can't take care of ourselves or our A we should try and protect innocents if we can.

RainyJamie · Senior Member

I was very much feeling like stopping him in anyway would be trying to control him. I don't want to control him. I watched him drive off, thankful he had left the house, but moments later was sick with guilt. I don't know what i'll do next time. I think I'll call the police if he wont listen to reason. I need some sort of protocol. If it was someone that I didn't even know, and I saw them stagger out to the car and begin to drive away, well, I don't know if I would call the police. But I wouldn't feel personally responsible if they crashed. But if it was someone in my house who got up to drive to drive away...I would stopo them, and probably go to any legnth to stop them.

Diva · ~*Service Worker*~

Rainy, not wanting to "control" your hubby is so unimportant considering he is taking other innocent lives in his hands, and he has no right to do that. You are allowing the "tools" of AlAnon blur your common sense. What you are saying is, "I don't want to tell him what to do, so I will let him go out and kill someone." You may not be able to stop him, but a valiant effort to do so, in my opinion, is the least we can do to save lives. Maybe even his.

You must handle this as you see fit, but I hope you will "see fit" to step in to defend humanity and help avert a tragedy.

Diva

lin0606 · ~*Service Worker*~

The reason alanon advises us not to try to control the A is, one, because it doesn't work anyway so why stress yourself out, and, two, because the best way for them to reach for recovery is for them to experience the consequences of their behaviour. The operative word there is "THEM".

When the possible and likely consequences of their behaviour mean severe consequences being experienced by someone else, the situation changes. In a way, you calling the cops when you know he is seriously impaired behind the wheel, IS logical consequences - you are his wife, his codependent, enmeshed in this disease with him, but you are also a citizen and a human being. If it was someone else, you'd report it.

All that said, don't beat yourself up too much. I'm lucky - my A stopped driving seriously drunk long before he stopped drinking. I was not faced with this choice since I became sane enough to notice I had it. I suspect, though, that if I had stood my ground and said "if you take the car in this condition, I'll call the cops" he would probably have sworn at me and staggered off on foot. He would have been mad, but he would have listened. I hope. And I hope that, if he hadn't, I would have had the courage to do what I knew was right.

Heartbroken · Senior Member

Rainy, I can only reiterate what I wrote before and ask you to think again on what I wrote...

"I happen to believe that I have a moral obligation to report a drunk driver. He can risk his own life for that is his business, but he has no right to risk anyone else's life. I would NOT be able to live with myself knowing that that person might kill another person because of their inebriated state that seriously reduces their capabilities whilst in the driving seat of a car."

...the moral dilemma arises when one does NOT recognise that this is about the possibility of an innocent person losing their life at the hands of a drunk driver.

In a sense if the drunk driver sets out to drive a car when they are NOT in full possession of their full faculities and senses and their reactors, then it is, in my opinion, not unlike premedicated murder for they know in their hearts that they are NOT sober and therefore NOT fit to drive and therefore could be putting others at risk of losing their lives should they NOT be able to avoid hitting them.

For me, at least, this is what it boils down to...their decision..." I am drunk but I am going to drive and I do NOT care, value or honour anybody else's life or their right to be safe. So what if I hit them, maim them, disrupt their life, cripple them or even kill them, I am not interested in the consequences of my actions, I am going to drive my car, so what."

I know I have stated this quite harshly but I have been on the receiving end of a drunk driver and it was devastating to witness the utter disregard of basis and socially acceptable unselfish reasoning.

I was lucky, I did NOT lose my life, I sustained injuries, but I could have lost my life all because of the selfish disregard of my life by this diseased person.

Heartbroken.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Rainy...the words of our Serenity Prayer say in part "...the courage to change the things that I can" I use to not and now I do because it is one right thing to do for all of the reasons that I do it.

Some of my reasoning now goes like this; The person is sick, under the influence of a toxic mind, mood and physically altering chemical. The person is in need of help quickly and if they don't get help quickly they may either die and or cause others to die also. The person needs help and I am not in place to do that right now. I call 911 (have now often as a result of practice, practice, practice.) It is the most right and compassionate thing to do for that person and my community including my family and myself. No fear, no guilt no shame...at all. If I ever come under the influence of alcohol again I now wish that others would do that for me. The serenity prayer goes on to say..."and the wisdom to know the difference." Now that the fear of doing something different because of negative feedback is gone and because of the practice, I know what I can and cannot change in the alcoholic. I know that I can interrupt the insanity and will do so when needed. Sometimes interrupting the insanity brings it to an end for the moment and causes a more desired change in direction.

I had an opportunity while being a CHIP dispatcher to take a call from a Highway unit who stopped a female DUI suspect. When the officer called in the license info to me to check it out...sure enough in a population of over 600,000 people it was my alcoholic. I told him that the suspect was "known to this dispatcher" and he had her car taken and she was taken home. The threat was over. The chances of fatal harm to herself and others was changed. She didn't die and got into recovery. Interrupting the insanity.

Since then as a therapist and as a member of the family groups and AA I have encouraged many to take on the courage and over come the fear of doing something that may just piss off the alcoholic/addict. I can deal much more easily with their being pissed and no one harmed than their being pissed (they are always pissed anyway) and much damage done.

"Courage is fear that has said it's prayers" from the One Day at a Time in Al-Anon daily reader.

Of course it is not only about driving is it?

Thanks for such a useful subject. ((((hugs)))) smile

Diva · ~*Service Worker*~

"The reason alanon advises us not to try to control the A is, one, because it doesn't work anyway so why stress yourself out..."

Wait 'til he kills someone. Then you'll know the full meaning of having yourself "stressed out." Better to try and fail to keep him from driving drunk than not to bother because you'll stress yourself out trying.

Shaking my head and wondering,

Diva

RainyJamie · Senior Member

He very much made a concious decision to drink and drive. He knew there was something he had to do, he put it off and had a couple drinks, then he left and I'm the one with a peptic ulcer about it. It makes me so mad!!

Diva · ~*Service Worker*~

That's exactly why we need AlAnon Rainy. What you said is true of all of us, I suppose..." I'm the one with a peptic ulcer about it." My A goes on his merry way between binges like nothing in the world is wrong. He doesn't understand why I have my moments of anger and sadness... *sigh*

With caring and understanding,

Diva

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"