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I know AA has helped countless people, BUT has anyone else here seen an A use it as an excuse to drink? My AH attributes his "mess ups" to the fact that he can't control himself and that it's a disease, which he says comes from AA.
He has made a profession out of being an alcoholic. He started drinking when he was 13... he hasn't even tried to stop until I found out he was an alcoholic & told him I am not going to tolerate that behavior (less than a year into our marriage). I know I was stupid for marrying him... I found out he drank pretty often when we were engaged... didn't think he was an actual alcoholic (or didn't want to believe it?), because he hid how much he truly drank from me for a long time.
Now, we've been married for 7 years (just had our anniversary this week actually). He came home last night drunk... this is after months since his last fall off the wagon. Everytime he does thiis he quotes AA philosophies at me (while drunk). I am not sure how I feel about some of the things he has said. Part of me screams out, "NO! That's not right!"... and part of me wonders if my feelings about AA is why he has not fully recovered.
I have a real problem with the whole idea that "A"s are not in control of their actions. Sure, while they are drinking, they are in a chemically altered state, but when they have been dry for some time and no alcohol has been in their system (for months!) - I just believe that it is weekness when they buy a bottle. A weekness that they are in control of, they choose to drink (for whatever reasons... my AH's is because he thinks he deserves a drink, since he's been doing so well!?!?????).
I DO believe in a higher power AND that, that higher power can help you with your weeknesses and problems. I also believe that, that higher power gave us a will to choose what we do in our lives.
My AH does not go to AA meetings anymore, because he said that after the meetings alot of them would go to the bar (he was one of them). He went for 10 years (his Xwife told him he had to go)- before I met him... he also admitts he drank pretty much continuously the whole time! He tried every group in the area, and found them all the same.
I don't know if this is just his excuse for not going now or what...
I do know that I have become an angry, bitter, suspicious, resentful, controlling person, that I do not like so much. I read here that I should not dump bottles that I find... WOW! Not sure of the reason for that. When my AH was at his worst and told me he knew alcohol was ruining his life, I not only dumped every bottle I found, but did it in front of him, made him do it in front of me... I even told him to vomit in front of me every time he came home drunk... I did not think it was fair for him to have his buzz and then have me forgive him eventually and have the whole thing repeat... all the while he was getting his little "escape" and making no progress.
I have never gone to any meetings... they would probably throw me out!
Yes, my AH has made alot of progress... he was drinking a total of a half gallon of vodka straight every two days and now he does not drink for months then gets a half pint and downs it... goes dry for a few months... gets a bottle... goes dry... BUT he keeps allowing himself these "mess ups" (cleaned the language up... he calls it something else) saying, "Well, I'm doing better than I used to.".
Hi.... I'm certainly no clinical expert here, but it sounds to me that "AA is not backfiring", and it is more of a case of your A not yet being ready to find sobriety, and still using every excuse in the book (including AA), as a reason why he drinks...
I don't think your situation is all that unique, from my experience. My ex-AW used to go to AA meetings for close to a year, and then go out drinking afterwards.... She also told me (after she got sober), that during that period she both: a: chaired a meeting while drunk; and b: got asked to leave a meeting because she was too drunk (at her meetings, members were allowed to stay, as long as they weren't being disruptive).
I'd guess that this is simply an early stage of recovery (or pre-recovery), where there is obviously something drawing him towards AA (and the concept of getting better), but the whole idea intimidates and scares the crap out of him.
I remember my ex telling me one time, while she was still active, that the "only thing that scares me more than continuing in this downward spiral, is the idea of life with sobriety". That was a real eye opener for me, but I got that confirmed by many people I had come to know through her AA, in various stages of recovery - many (most?) alcoholics/addicts are VERY fearful of recovery. I think, before they are ready, the whole concept of needing AA and recovery tools for the rest of their lives, must be very overwhelming.
Time for one of my favorite lines, in an attempt to help you turn the attention back to you..... He's either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do??
Take care of yourself, and he will either find sobriety, or he won't.... either way, you're miles ahead to get yourself healthy.
Take care Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
What you feel about AA has nothing to do with why your husband drinks. You are just not that powerful. He's just using every excuse he can dig up, logical or not (A's are very good at finding a germ of truth and using it to full advantage) to avoid doing what he knows he needs to do, but doesn't believe he can. Standard alcoholic BS.
Take your focus of of him, and put it back where it belongs, on you. If and when he is ready to sober up, he'll stop playing these games and really work at it. What are you going to do until then? Waiting for him to sober up before you can be happy might make for a long wait - start working on your own happiness now. It IS possible to have a serene and joyful life while the alcoholic is still drinking. It's even possible to do this while still living with him. He'll get to recovery when he is ready, you don't have to wait for him, you can start your own recovery now.
Welcome to MIP. I don't think it's possible for AA to backfire when the person is ready for recovery. When they are under the influence I believe they can turn and twist anything around to their liking and can be very convincing.
I hope you do attend an alanon meeting for you. After living with the choas of alcoholism we find we are affected. I found that slowly all my focus had turned to him. My happiness was based on whether he was using or not. I had forgotten what I like to do. I had given away my life. I can promise you if you go to meetings, you will meet alot of people who will understand exactly where you are at.
AA has a saying "fake it 'til you make it".....You just never know when the miracle will happen. I will tell you though, it happens when the time is right for the alcoholic, not the loved one. I hit my bottom along time ago, my ex is still working twords his.
I hope you keep coming back here too! Good luck on your journey!
I do think it's important to find things that fufill you and make you happy. I have several hobbies that I love and make me feel good about myself.
I agree that As have a way of twisting things to their advantage.
I do put too much focus on him.
I am not sure about going to any meetings quite yet... there are some things that I either just don't quite "get" or adamatly disagree with.
Like the three C's... I do not think that I can make him stop drinking, but I do believe I can give him some not so attractive choices for if he does... and some of the "you can't change it" talk sounds too much like ignoring the situation and helping yourself get into an even worse one.
Like I said, maybe I am just not understanding something, but I am a "doer", I cannot sit idly by and watch my life deteriorate without a fight.
------------------------------------------ feel free to call me Loco!
Let me just start by saying that denial is an incredibly powerful form of self-preservation and you are not alone. My ah had about 10-15 yrs of drug use (that I had NO KNOWLEDGE of) and drank too much socially and on occasion (mostly at night in workaholic state) and I did not acknowledge he had a problem until the day before he went to rehab set up by his employee and sister. Huhhh?
My ah started AA following a stint in rehab about 9 months ago. Upon release, he made about 50 of the recommended 90 meetings in 90 days then suddenly stopped. Why? He stopped going because he said the meetings were full of "angry, bitter people with lots problems". The irony in that statement makes me speechless. He fit in perfectly, and I think that is what scared him. He refused to be defined as an alcoholic and considered himself just a normal person who chose to drink and get drunk (because of me, of course) and that he could just choose not to.
Going to rehab interupted his disease and gave my kids thier father back. Technically he became much, much better in terms of the amount of drinking and drug use, but he never became truly sober. His twisted thoughts and attitudes remained the same (that's how I knew he wasn't clean) and because of his sorry mental state, it was obvious it was only going to be a matter of time before he would be back to the heavy use again.
He is back in AA now because of a diversion program that he entered voluntarily with some arm-twisting. I have hesitations about AA too because I have heard that it tells the a that he and his recovery are more important than anything else - marriage, kids, whatever. Bottom line, it is true because without sobriety there is nothing. It really is about them wanting sobriety for themselves, and we can only hope that we benefit as well.
I go to f2f al-anon meetings and counseling. I take responsibility for my part in our dysfunctional marriage (which was huge) and strive to improve myself and my attitudes regardless of him. It is not easy! I encourage you to go to some meetings and just listen. They won't throw you out! It took me about 6 months to realize that maybe, just maybe, they were on to something. Please take care of yourself, you are worth it!
Blessings, Lou
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Every new day begins with new possibilities. It's up to us to fill it with the things that move us toward progress and peace. ~ Ronald Reagan~
Sometimes what you want to do has to fail, so you won't ~Marguerite Bro~
"I cannot sit idly by and watch my life deteriorate without a fight."
And how is that working for you. so far?
Sometimes we just have to accept what is. I use the analogy of the climate - if you live in Seattle and hate to get wet, you can stay inside, get good rain gear, or move to Arizona. What you CAN'T do is change the weather.
If it were only a question of fighting, there would be no alcoholics - all of us here would have cured ours, and wouldn't need this place. We come here when we are exhausted with a battle that we can't win. It's nto because we didn't fight hard enough, it's because we were focused on the wrong enemy.
Your anger and resentment are completely understandable. You have been fighting a ghost. I promise you they will not throw you out of a meeting. They have all been there too in one form or another. They will embrace you like they were embraced when they came.
Your feelings about AA are also understandable to many. There is too much to learn about this disease and the programs for you to absorb it all at once.
I now go to open AA meetings as well as my Alanon meetings, but it took me over a year in this program to get to the point that I could. I was in so much pain and they just did not understand. I really needed a meeting that acknowledged MY pain. Most alcoholics do not understand the pain we are in. They are too consumed by their own struggle. I am now at a place where I can accept that, but when I first came here I could not. I was isolated and it seemed that everyone in my life was against me, and they were. My AH made sure of it. He manipulated everyone around us to think I was the problem, while he hid a thousands plus dollar a month drug/alcohol habit.
Even my own mother was turned against me by his manipulations. I understand the pain, rage, and indignation you feel. You are not in a place right now that you can feel any real compassion for him, or the members of his AA group. That's ok. In fact it may be necessary right now so you can get the focus back on you and take care of your own feelings.
You already know that what you have been doing up til now is not working. That's why you came here, to try something different, right? So give yourself a break and just keep coming back here for awhile. Read old posts and new ones. Just let yourself absorb the info and try not to judge us too harshly. Tell us about your pain. We understand and you need someone to really HEAR you. At least I sure did. I think that's what I needed most at first, someone to hear me and not devalue my feelings.
Love in recovery,
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~Jen~
"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown
"I cannot sit idly by and watch my life deteriorate without a fight."
And how is that working for you. so far?
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Well, things have greatly improved, truthfully... but he was willing to do all the things I requested of him, because he knew he had a problem... trouble is, sticking to it!
My husband has realized the pain he has caused for me and our kids, and has a fair amount of guilt about it... which I don't know if that is wrong by AA/AlAnon standards or not, but it seems to me that if you believe you are not in control of it, then you have no reason to feel guilty about it.
Truthfully, I'm GLAD he feels guilty. If he didn't, I'd be worried! It's not because I want him to hurt, but bcause I hope that knowing what he put us through will help him to make the right decisions in the future.
I still don't get what it really means to "focus on me"... I admit, I've always been better at seeing to other's needs before mine, but I NEED to do that, I'm a mom & wife, right? So, I don't get what that really means.
I don't know if he WOULD go back to AA meetings... and truthfully I am afraid that if faced with the offer to go out drinking afterward, he would slide back to the person he was in the begining of our marriage.
As for me going to AlAnon meetings f2f... I don't know, I'll hang around here a bit and see if I can get a handle on what it all means for a bit, I think.
Does AA backfire ? not that I am aware of but some find it difficult to find the amount of honesty required to be affective . Our concern in Al-Anon is you and how his behavior affects your life , I hope u will find meetings for yourself your going to need support . Made me smile when he says that AA told him it was a disease and thats why he does what he does , not the first to use disease as an excuse for his behavior . Both programs work if YOU work them .
