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information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I need to know something. Because we have alcoholics in our lives, does this mean that we are supposed to arrange our lives according to their disease, and base our decisions on whether or not they could influence the A to drink? It seems that this is being done among some of the members of my Alanon group. This is what I am talking about; the parents of alcoholic children will not keep alcohol of any kind in thier homes, in order to not influence the A, even if they themselves like to have a drink or 2 or maybe a glass of wine. The wives will not either, but I can see not having alcohol in the As permanent home. However, I feel like my AHs sponser in that AH is responsible for what he does regardless of what others do, namely me. His sponser asked him what he would do if I decided one day that I wanted a beer or two, and told AH that if I want a beer because I can that is okay for me but that does not mean it is okay for AH. It seems to me that if we change our lifestyle to prevent problems for the A that we are acting as caregiver, the same as enabling him by preventing him from having to suffer consequences for his behavior, for example, having our lives revolve around keeping him sober. And in doing so we stop living our lives and doing what we want as seperate individuals. This is not healthy, just as I do not think it is healthy to try to protect the A by changing our lifestyle to protect him. If the alcoholic wants to drink, he is going to drink, and if it is not in the home he will just go buy it somewhere. Its as near as the closest store. I do not think we should coddle them, and I may be wrong for feeling this way, but I do not believe I should have to make my life conform to his disease. Am I the only one that feels this way? Am I insane for thinking that I can be like normal sociable adults and have a social drink ?
Adults, A's and non's alike, are free to choose as they wish. However, I would not drink in the A's presence myself...just out of respect for their choice of recovery or because why tempt fate. I see it this way: if someone I love or am entertaining is allergic to shellfish or peanuts or gluten or whatever, I will not serve that. If someone I love is diabetic, I will refrain from serving anything which would harm them. Yes, freewill and they make their choices. But I can be considerate and choose to be. And as for me, with all the pain alcohol brings into a families' lives, I cannot tolerate alcohol in my own presence.
For me, "each of us decides what's right for US" applies in spades here.
In my case, I no longer keep alcohol in the house, not so much because "it might make him drink" as because he's not comfortable with it at this point, and I'm not comfortable insisting on something that makes him UNcomfortable in his own house. Yes, there are days when he's gone to a meeting and I think gee, I'd like to have a finger of Southern Comfort, and resent that it's not possible. There are also times when I've kept a bottle of same in the car (my car) so it CAN be possible, though I don't really like the whole "hiding liquor" thing either.
But if we're out for dinner, and I feel like it, I ask him if he would be all right with my having a glass of wine, or a strawberry margarita, or whatever, and I do. This has taken some getting used to (and when he was first sober I didn't even bring it up), and actually he's never yet said "no please don't today", but for me it's a good compromise. If I'm somewhere without him, like at Alanon assembly, watching tv at night, I have no problem at all having a drink with the other women who do.
I think a lot of it is just paying attention to what my motivation is - which is what you are doing in asking these questions.
There is no right or wrong. I'm sure there are different circumstances in each case and they have their reasons. It is whatever one is comfortable with. There are no rules or judgements.
For instance..If an A always drank the alcohol I bought and brought in to the home and I knew it, that would be real close to enabling on my part since I knew it would happen. Sure, an A is going to drink if they want to but I wouldn't want to keep wasting my money or be the provider.
As far as having alcohol in the house while the A is in recovery...I liken it to inviting Satan back in to my home after an exorcism. I lived in that hell for 20 yrs and there's no way I want to have any part of contributing to it or inviting it back in to my life. My decision is for me and my own protection, not my alcoholic's.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Many of us have already spent many years arranging our lives around the alcoholic. Does it make sense to keep doing it in our own recovery, or the alcoholic's recovery? If we take responsibility for the alcoholic's sobriety, then we also take the blame for his or her relapse. To me, the essence of the Alanon program is to live our own lives and not have to react or anticpate the alcoholic at ever turn.
That said, there are certain practical considerations for *early in sobriety*. When I first got sober, I avoided being around alchol. I didn't expect others to look out for me, I had to look out for myself. I didn't go to events where drinking was a primary activity. I still don't. If I were living with a newly sober alcoholic, I wouldn't want alcohol around the house - but then as a sober alcoholic myself, I don't have it around anyway. I don't know what it would be like trying to get sober while living with a drinking family, especially when others were present drinking heavily or alcoholically.
When I got sober, I had a wife who was what I'd call a lightweight... half a wine cooler once a month. She had no problem giving that up once I stopped bringing it home for her! A daughter that was drinking and drugging, but mostly outside the home and vanishing for days at a time. It drove me crazy but was not a threat to my sobriety.
Today I do not have alcohol in my house. There is no reason for it to be there. I recently spent a weekend at a large gathering with a bunch of friends .. many of them drink but I dare say there's no alcoholics among them. I have no problem sitting in the lounge with them, and I don't feel any pressure - external or internal - to drink alcohol with them. And I don't see any obnoxious or drunken behavior. If I did, I'd leave.
My girlfriend for all intents and purposes does not drink. Many of her family members do - some to excess. She has gone to these events her whole life and had a good time while doing little or no drinking herself. So far, I've avoided some of her larger family gatherings where drinking was predominant. And we have agreed - we take our own car and if there is any level of discomfort, we're out of there. At this stage, I don't think I'd be tempted to drink - but I could easily be put off by drunken behavior. I don't have to put up with it, and I won't.
I believe that it is an individual choice. In my case, I have been separated from sober AH for 2 years and during that time, I stopped drinking for me--I didn't even tell him for almost a year because I didn't want him to thnk it had anything to do with him. I do not have alcohol in my home. The longer that I have been away from active alcoholism, the more uncomfortable I have become around excessive drinking. I choose not to be around it. I let alcohol control my life and it made my life a living hell at times--why would I want it around now that I know I have a choice??
My sober AH is moving home at the end of the month. If I were still drinking, I would not have alcohol in our home out of respect for him (even though he would probably say he didn't care). More than that, I wouldn't have alcohol in the home (or drink for that matter) because I believe that it would come between us, one way or another. I have decided that my relationship with my sober AH is more important to me than my "right" to drink.
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Do not be anxious about tomorrow; tomorrow will look after itself. The Bible, from Courage to Change, p.138
Growing up I had an uncle that had severly high blood pressure. My dad always prepared food without adding any extra salt. He had substitute salt in the shaker. I grew up knowing that my uncle had a disease and with respect for him, we made these few,simple changes. No big deal for us. Respect for him and his illness. I am sure if it were reversed he would have shown us the same respect. The food was just as good.
I used to smoke. My mother had cancer. I stopped smoking around her and in the house. Just out of respect for her and her disease. Would the 2nd hand smoke contributed to her disease? I don't know. Just seemed that smoking causes cancer, and she was battling cancer so I made the decision to not contribute to her illness.
These were choices that we made. I believe it was out of respect and treating them as we would wish to be treated.
I decided years ago that alcohol never played a good part in my life. I know that my 3 kids are high risk. Therefore I choose to not have alcohol in my home. I am not an alcoholic. I don't live with an alcoholic. I don't see alcohol as part of being a social grown up. I have never even had a drink since I have been legal. Actually, I did and it was in a social situation. It did nothing for me and I felt like a fake. I just don't drink. Not my thing and it did take other adults in my life awhile to get comfortable with that idea. But they did and now it just is who I am.
As far as the A well, yes, when they are fully into working a program then they might be able to not be tempted. But still, is it really that important? I have a friend who was complaining because there was a kid in school who had a peanut allergy so the kids were not allowed to bring in anything containing peanuts. They were 5th graders. Now this really ticked my friend off. Her thought was HER kids loved peanuts so why should THEY have to SUFFER just because ONE kid who SHOULD be old enough to not get near peanuts is allergic?! My thought was, I'm sure allergic kid is smart enough and old enough to stay away from something that could kill him, but what if? And really, how much are her kids suffering? They can eat peanuts at the bar!!!LOL!!!!
I am reminded of an incident from long ago... I don't think I've ever told anybody about it. Pretty funny actually. My parents had been divorced for a couple years, and my mom was a single parent. We saw dad one day a week but only in the daytime. Anyway, I know mom had been pretty stressed during this time - I was probably about 12, and as anyone who grew up in an alcoholic home knows, you become very tuned in to subtle things.
One night my mom was headed up to bed early - she hadn't been feeling well. She had a glass in her hand and was in her robe and slippers. I caught a whiff of something all too familiar... alcohol!! I didn't say a thing, but she must have instantly read the expression on my face. She paused and said yes, she had made herself a cocktail - don't know what it was. She was the kind of person who had one small glass of wine once a year at the Christmas office party. I was very glad she stopped and explained that to me, and didn't try to deny it. She had a sore throat, and thought it might help her get to sleep. I just remember my gut reaction, brief though it was - I've got one supporting parent left... and she's DRINKING! It's funny now, but - at the time it was a jolt.
I don't think she ever did it again no matter how sick she was - possibly just from remembering my reaction. And I still don't know where she actually got the booze from - without dad around, there was none in the house. But now that I think about it, she probably just got some from our neighbors - as dad used to do when he ran out!
Your question is very valid, and there are no clear answers, in my opinion. For me, I quit drinking altogether for over five years, when my ex-A-wife was at the depths of her disease. I think I quit for two reasons - primarily for the sake of the kids, as they had enough fear and angst over their Mom's drinking - I didn't want or need them to have any concerns over my (social) drinking. The other reason was, in effect, a "show of support" for my A at the time, in that I felt it was more reasonable for me - if I was expecting her NOT to drink, that I could do the same (i.e. not drink).
Personally, I think the choice is an individual one, and I fully agree with the Three C's, but also believe that we can take some relatively small steps to help create a more positive environment for sobriety. Will it "cause them to stay sober?" - of course not.... but what it WILL do, is ultimately help us understand that we have done whatever we can, within our control...
Just my two bits...
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
In my opinion, there is a difference between playing 'caregiver', and having a home environment that is supportive of an A in recovery.
As a recovering alcoholic myself, I have the option, outside of the home, whether I want to enter an environment that serves alcohol or not.
In my own home, there is no alcohol. I have no significant other at this time in my life, and I like it that way because I have provided myself with a home environment that is conducive to my recovery.
I'm not interested in even dating someone who drinks socially.
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"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson
What a great back to basics question. I am amazed again how powerful this chemical is by the responses to your question Cat! This disease really pulls minds together and get them involved in the What do I dos?
For me a deeper understanding of the chemical is necessary. This is not a food source! This is a toxic substance that does not need the stomach to get into the human system and when it gets into the human system it starts to alter the system immediately! Why did I ever think I was somehow free from the effects of this solvent? I just thought so and so therefore it was true inspite of the alcoholism in my family. Of course back them alcoholism was not a disease it was a sin and I never got the real lesson until years later. There is no food value in alcohol regardless of the one glass of wine or occasional beer theories. Those theories don't work with a "progressive addiction" that most often starts with an occasional glass of wine or beer.
My present wife can and cannot drink alcohol, that is her choice. She doesn't have a choice of what it will do to her body because that is one thing we are powerless over and I am not just refering to getting drunk. I have a very high tolerance to alcohol and drugs. I can do a lot with out seemingly being affected. My family because I use to drink a lot and not appear drunk openly states that "You are not an alcoholic!" and then they needs as many drinkers around them to keep the status quo. I know that I am alergic and because of that I don't drink any more. I don't drink anti-freeze either as some foreign alcoholics do when they run out of their government allotment of vodka. If my wife were to choose to drink at some time she and I would both know what would go on in her body that she would be powerless over unless she and I chose not to drink. Hindsight is 20/20 and the best lesson there is. I will smile everytime I hear a person say, "It (drinking alcohol) doesn't affect me. It didn't affect me either even when I was in toxic shock!) Denial is blindness and bliss for some.
Drinking a toxic substance however it is packaged or arranged or presented is not good sense for an alcoholic or non-alcoholic.
Go to school on this chemical and how long it's been around and how powerful it was in the past and how much more powerful it is today and make an informed decision. Pass that infomation that you have to your kids and grandkids (as my addicted son and I have done...because they just gotta know before hand and we love them enough to point out our mistakes) because having the knowledge first often times interfers with a tragedy waiting for a person or place to happen.
This is a chemical to be respected because it is the strongest destroyer of the human race that I have ever experienced. There is no innosence about alcohol use or abuse...even infants are born under it's influence and to caring and loving parents.
Thanks for letting me share.
What is soooo difficult about having a clear mind, body, spirit and emotions that we should want to be otherwise?
