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Just wanted to say we went to counseling today, and discussed big-time my issues with trusting him, or should I say, complete lack of trust for him. My A said to the counselor how he is really working his 12 step program, and how he is doing well. He said he has changed so much, he can't understand why I am not very trusting. He feels he has proven that he can be trusted.
The counselor told him to agree to not do a particular thing just for the upcoming week, til we see her next week. We left, had lunch together, ran a couple errands and then came home. He had to go meet the driver (for his business) to do a job, and I went on some more errands. On my way, as I was stopped at a red light in our little town, who do I see driving through the intersection? My non-licensed sober A, of course, in the work truck. He was as oblivious as could be that I was sitting right there watching him. So I drove around to where he parked, to a parking lot where he was to meet his designated driver. I asked him why he was driving, and he said he just wanted to get the pickup and take it to where the driver was gonna meet him. I asked why he couldn't have waited for his driver to get there and THEN go to the pickup.
You see, my A and I live two blocks from where he parks his moving business vehicles. He walks everywhere, and the original location of the pickup was at a warehouse that his family owns, just about 4 blocks from where he was supposed to meet his driver.
Anyway, he responded to my question with "I just wanted to have the truck here for when (driver) got here. I guess I should have waited for him to get here and then gone to get it."
I just don't get it. I just don't get that he will say "I didn't think it was THAT big of a risk." He is eligible to get his license back in Jan. '08, so why is he risking it? Sure, he may drive fine, but all it takes is that ONE person to run into him, then he will be found out that he's driving without a license. That, in turn, will create financial crap for us. I hate that he thinks nothing of what it will do to us financially. And to think that he couldn't understand in counseling this morning why I'm having trouble trusting him. 3 1/2 (almost) years sober and he still can't seem to get it. Go figure...
I can empthasise immensely. The a's sheer lack of concern/ability to perceive his affect on me is mind numbing. I have had to surrender to it. He has major major major issues with his driivng/license/reckless driving. I have talked to him about it till the end of time. Nothing gets through. I have had to surrender on it. I have also to let go of my interest in a truck I bought. That was colossal for me.
I am so sorry you have to go through this level of frustration. Believe me I understand it, empathise with it and can totally understand how absolutely mind numbingly frustrating this can be.
Thanks, Maresie...I know that there are many out there who can understand what this is like. It is, as you put it, mind numbingly frustrating, to say the least! Reminds me of a child, really. A child, who, when you tell them not to do something because it has dire consequences, continues to do it. Kinda like teenagers, lol. Just blows my mind.
Mind numbing is exactly it. I think it is a symptom of the disease and a serious lack of maturity. For some, could it possibly even be a symptom of some kind of permanent damage to their ability to reason?
Depending on when they started using or drinkig, they very well may be just teenagers mentally and emotionally. How do they say?... 1 year for every month of sobriety is what they gain back. I wonder if this is true.
Thanks for the post.
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~Jen~
"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown
If I may say so, this would be the perfect subject for the next therapy session :D . It is nice and concrete, no interpretation necessary.
Lin said it perfectly. IMO you don't have trust "issues", you have issues with a person who you cannot trust.
Hopefully a sober A in the program will have the willingness to take a look at how his/her behavior is affecting those around. It's possible that it never occurs to them, just like a teenager, just like any immature individual. They generally don't take another persons point of view, it just never occurs to them to do so. Probably quite innocent. If it is a deliberate violation then you have another issue altogether, but at least it will be on the table.
I really do appreciate everyone's responses to my post. We did bring up in counseling about him continuing to do "little" things that are dishonest, but I am truly convinced that he thinks as long as he's not drinking, he's totally and honestly working the program. We also discussed him looking at the "innocent" swimsuit sites online several days ago (see my earlier post about sex addiction), and he admitted it got the better of him when he saw the ad on our internet provider homepage, so he just clicked the link. In his eyes, it was "innocent" (as well as some of the members of the board here) but I know his past and I know what he is capable of doing. Just like, in his mind, it was "no big deal" when he drove just a couple of blocks. Who's to say he hasn't driven more, with me not knowing about it? Why not? If he knows I'm not going to be out and about, I'll never know about it. To me, it's the little things that he uses to test the waters, if you will. If the little things don't get him into trouble, he progresses to the not-so-little things, pretty soon to the big things that lead to his relapse. Just as for me in my 12-step Alanon program, rigorous honesty is the way to go, and I think if one is practicing the rigorous honesty as the Big Book of AA says to do, there should be no lies about driving w/o a license. Period.
BTW, his past consists of nasty porn magazines, affairs, online porn sites, telephone sex numbers. So you can see why my concern with the "innocent" swimsuit sites. Even the counselor said it starts with just a click, and for him to agree not to go to any sites like that for just the upcoming week, until our next session.
For the time being, I'm going to refrain from discussing with him any of the little things he does that he knows are wrong/illegal. I feel like it goes in one ear and out the other. So I'm not going to waste my time and breath.
Also, he's SUCH an intelligent person, so it really confuses me to no end why he just doesn't get it.
Well, you know your husband unlike anyone else, and in Getting Them Sober the author says "if you think he did it, he probably did!" You are giving yourself credit for your experience of him, rather than thinking you are crazy, or that the legal system is being "mean" and unreasonable.
What can you do to make yourself feel more secure? Something that doesn't depend upon HIM to do something. You're so right about going in one ear and out the other, peeing in the wind is another apt description :D .
My biggest concern while my A was still in the home was his behaviors ending him up with fines, hospital bills, etc, all things that would go against the property and thus the farm. Since, typically, he wouldn't stop his using and crazy behavior, it was on me to protect myself and the assets. Waiting for my A to get a grip on himself, thinking he WOULD before he took us down into the pit really cost me MUCH of my financial security at least. Now he's living in a junky trailer in a junkier park, away from what he professed to love, and he is STILL doing his drug thing. I hear you saying your sober A's behavior is threatening to your security as well. What can you do to make sure you are OK??
Intelligence in an A either drinking or not working a program is rather deadly, so I hear. Since the disease is so much about how they think, it just makes it a more "intelligent" disease, not good at all. Keep in touch dear . . . . Kim
I don't know what to say here...but feel I must say something from a guy's prospective. First...If you asked him, would he tell you or lie? Some times for me it is hard to be honest with my wife, I do not like confruntation. Rather walk away the to deal with it. My wife says I do not know how to communicate????? Go figure, guys don't have as much practice.
Next thought is progress not profection...He is not going to change over night, I would love for the people in my life to do exactly what it is I want but they just don't. I don't know what his program is like? Is he calling a sponser, going to meetings, doing the basic's? If he is not, then he is not doing the basic, and he is not working a program!
I guess my last thought is...The healthier that we get the healthier or relationships get. So I need to work on my self, When my wife is doing dysfunctional sh%^.... I need to work on myself harder. Part of that I have found is being honest in a way that is not mean, or dodges the truth. My feeling are my feelings, and yelling getting angry, or being demeaning is not going to change things. I don't know if this helps, but it helps me. Thank you for your sharing!
There's a difference between "working the steps" and "living the steps". I know people who have worked the steps for 20 years and you know what? They aren't any better! So what's the point? Many times I have joked when people ask me if I have any children and I reply: "Two. My husband and the cat!" I swear there are days when my teenage niece acts more responsible than her father!
I say this with all due respect to the MIP men, whom I have great affection and respect for (they are excluded from this): but my mother gave me a great piece of wisdom once: "When you don't understand why men do what they do. Don't knock you're head against the wall trying to figure it out. Just realize that their Y chromosome is twisted for a reason!" Here's hoping things get better for you.
Love and blessings to you and your family. Kiss the kitties.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
Here's hoping things get better for you.
