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Post Info TOPIC: OK. Here's the big question, for me.
Jen


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OK. Here's the big question, for me.


Can one ever trust an A?
No matter how much recovery they have, they can still slip. I get that. Something can always send them over the edge.
But is it reasonable to expect that at some point everything won't?
Can an A ever get to a point that they can be trusted to handle most of life's ups and downs without falling completely apart?

I had a really hard time posting this question. I'm scared of the answer, but I want honesty here folks. I really need an honest answer.

Thanks,

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~Jen~

"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown



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I honestly think the answer is YES, but there are some necessary stipulations.  My belief is that if an A is actively and honestly following a program of recovery, they will, in time, become every bit as trustworthy as anyone else, and perhaps even moreso.  Their program is all very "honesty-based", and the ones who fully choose sobriety become perhaps even "more honest" than most of us.  I know several A's who are solidly in their recovery, and I would consider them VERY trustworthy. 

All that being said, I also think our history with our A's during their active years, make it difficult for US to trust them again.  I can see the good and decency in many of these "other" A's (i.e. friends or acquaintances that I was NOT married to), whereas I have much more difficulty seeing those same things in my ex, who is now over 5 years sober.

Just my two cents
Tom



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I don't have the perspective of those who have come through into sobriety with their A. I hope they speak up for you, and for me too :) , on how they "did it", because trust is such a cornerstone in a good relationship.

The only thought that comes up for me when I read your post is that it STILL is up to them and how they work their program. The result will always be beyond our control. We can hope they grow into a person who can handle what comes their way.

Honestly we can't base our security on what someone will HOPEFULLY do for themselves :) . Alcoholic/addict or not. This is one of my BIG lessons from my experience.

The sober A's I know from my meetings are very stable and reliable people, yes even more than you'd expect from a normal person.

Good question, but maybe the answer isn't so scary or awful as you might think :) .


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Hi Jen,
I don't think that the problem is them falling apart, because everyone has the potential to do that when a crisis arises.  It's just that we know what has a greater chance of happening if they DO fall apart, since we've seen the meltdowns in the past. 
I agree with Tom - if they are not drinking, but not following a program, as the A in my life was doing, the fallout from setbacks can be devastating.  It sent him on a downward spiral, so I understand being able to trust alcoholics who are in recovery and are a bit removed from me.  I think that even if my friend was in a program, I would have a hard time not expecting the Jekyll and Hyde thing to reappear.
Thanks, and take care,
Marion

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The answer is yes, maybe and no. It's very individual.

Can you count on someone that has stopped smoking to never pick up another cig because they are upset? Some people you can, others you can't.

IMO, it's not really about what upsets them, that's a BS excuse. Nothing "makes" them drink. There must be a determination not to drink no matter what.

Christy



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Hi Jen  I agree with Canadian Guy  yes u can .but for me the answer was not can i trust him but learning to trust myself and God .
Today  I trust what I see , changes taking place in personality etc . I don't pay much attention to what people say i watch what they do.
When I trust God and myself it really dosent matter what others do  I will be okay .    Louise

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I'm going with no on this one. When I say this I mean complete trust as in lets cosign together on a vehicle, let's put both our names on a bank account or credit card, I am going to buy a house or rent a place I can't afford on my salary alone. I would say no definietly not. But then the question is can you really trust or depend on anyone? I guess there are levels of trust. Trusting someone to make their own decisions and mistakes is a given whereas RELYING on them is something I would never do again not just with an A but anyone.

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((((((jen)))))

Good question. I've known a few couples where the alcoholic went to AA and the non-A went
to f2f Al-Anon. I knew the non-A's very well from attending Al-Anon and they did trust
their husbands as much as anyone can be trusted. My first husband who was not a drinker or
drugger got involved with a woman who worked for him and left me for her - so ............?

I"ve also heard quite a few drunk-a-logs while attending open AA. Some of those men had been sober for years and still attended AA. They still spoke at meetings and told their stories as well as sponsored. It was obvious to me that they understood and regretted what they had done to their wives, children, relatives, and friends.

So my answer is yes they can be trusted if they truly want their life to turn around. That
doesn't mean they lost their personalities so some of their "quirks" remained, but because of Al-Anon, the drinking and blatent abuse ceased and they were much easier to live with.

Sober alcoholics know that if they're only one drink away from going back where they were which is why AA is usually a life-long priority for them. It takes a long time - first they must get rid of the booze, then they have to learn how to live. There are several alcoholics (men) who come to the f2f group who said they go to AA to remind them that they cannot drink and they come to go to Al-Anon to learn how to live.

That's my experience and I understand that it's probably not what you wanted to hear. It's normal not to want to go through all that it takes to deal with someone else's alcoholism.
Each circumstance dictates whether or not we choose to go through or not. There's no right
or wrong decision. We learn to live and let live one day at a time.

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I hope the answer to this is yes eventually. I believe that if they work their program and truly believie in it it will work and eventually they probably can become more trust worthy than some. The whole thing is thy have to want it bad enough and earn back what they lost bad enough and know that it all takes time.

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QOD


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OMG - I have to agree w/Carolinagirl on this one......she practically took the words right out of my mouth. I mean I was reading all of the posts and thinking about what my own response was going to be, when WHAM - there was my pal Carolinagirl sharing my brain and putting it out there for me. AMAZING! You go Carolinagirl.

Seriously, I feel exactly that way. Trust is a HUGE issue for me now. And it isn't narrowed down to just the A in my life any more but towards EVERYONE. My trust in people has limits now where it didn't used to. I would NEVER EVER go joint on ANYTHING FINANCIAL ever again. No joint accounts, no joint purchases. I would never relinquish my finances to someone's else control. When my AH burned me on all that, it hurt bad and I am not willing to suffer it again.

As far as matters of the heart.....hmmmm....that is a difficult one to predict. I'd be extremely cautious w/my heart where any one is concerned. But especially w/my AH. He broke my heart so completely and for so incredibly long that I won't ever give it back to him again. I cannot predict the future and have no clue whether or not I'll meet another man down the road that completely sweeps me off of my feet. I can tell you that I will always proceed w/caution.

This whole TRUST business completely depends on the individual and that person's circumstances. Some of us have been burned worse than others and the wounds are very deep. I think that makes a big difference. And too, I think the A is what makes the difference. If they truly want to find sobriety and stay in the working recovery program and help those that he/she has hurt to heal, then maybe that A can be trusted again. But being trustworthy and finding people willing to give you that trust are two different things. And I think that is part of the whole "Road to Recovery" for A's and their loved ones. It is something each of us has to decide for ourselves.

Sincerely,
QOD

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QOD



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Depends...When he says he loves me...yes, I believe he is telling the truth.  When he says he will never drink again...no, I believe he is not telling the truth.

Yes, he lies when he is drinking.  No, he does not lie when he is sober.

So, I suppose my answer to your question is.......
Yes...No...

Diva

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My husband's mother died when he had three and a half years of sobriety. He did not relapse. His father died two months later. He did not relapse.  Two weeks after his fourth AA birthday, he found out he had terminal cancer. He did not relapse.  He died sober.

Did he sail through all of this, serene and happy, because of his sobriety? Well, no.  He had some pretty severe bouts of self pity, of "me me me", of blaming.  He got kinda snarky here and there, especially when he was in serious physical pain.  There were times, especially towards the end when he was on a lot of pain medication, that I saw that crack addict looking out at me.

But, all in all, taking in the whole picture and not just some of the smudged corners, he had enough recovery that he could face what he had to face in a mostly healthy way.  Because of his program.

And how about me, the saintly alanon?  How did *I* do - did I slip back into old behaviour?  Yes, I relapsed too, had some very sick hours here and there.   But, mostly, I had enough recovery that I could face what I had to face in  a more or less healthy way.  Because of my program.

Go to the odd open AA meeting, in a place where there are people with some years of recovery.  Take in a roundup or a convention, where you can hear the stories of people who have been sober a long time, and who are active in the program.  Get some speaker tapes (both AA and alanon). You will see that recovery is very possible.

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Jen


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Thank you all so much for your opinions. I think it's starting to look a bit clearer to me.

Tom-I think you are right about working the program active and honestly. But how can we judge if they are. This seems essential if I am ever to allow him back.

Kim- You are right. I realize that I have been basing my level of security on how he is doing. That is codependency. I need to find ways to wean myself off of the need to have him take care of me. I grew up thinking that a husband and father takes care of his family, but that is not my reality.

I can really start to see some of the mistakes I am making that are really complicating my life. I don't know if separate bank accounts will make a difference in my state (ID) as far as liability, but I should look into it.

We run a business together, but he is the one that customers give their money to. There is no way to change that, but I can think about what to do with the money that does make it home. I can go down immediately and open a new account for our son, without his fathers name on it.

Sooo, lots to think about. Small steps to independence seem to be a good place to start.

Carolena- my mind is open and your honest opinion of your experience is exactly what I wanted to hear.

Again, thank you all. I thank my HP for putting you all on my road today and in the future.


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~Jen~

"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown

Jen


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Lin- Your husbands story gives me hope and brings me to tears.

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~Jen~

"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown



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I think it all starts with honesty. Tell him your fears, and talk about it. If he is working a program he will be honest and trustworthy.

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Jen


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My A grew up in a family that couldn't tell the truth if it slaped them in the face. He is trying, but so far has not stayed sober for longer than 4 mos. I let him read this thread a few minutes ago, and we did talk about the bank accounts. He doesn't like it, but after reading all of your ESH seems to realize the need for better security for the familys money.

Thank you all again.

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~Jen~

"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown

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