The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Having a child who is addicted must be the most awful situation a parent can face. Intimating or suggesting that a suffering parent allow his/her child to fall into the gutter goes against every principle I believe in and hold dear.
Detachment is a concept that, like most others, is relative. I am reminded of a question my mother used to ask me when I was a kid..."If your friends jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, would you?" Mom was wise, and her basic way of putting things into perspective was spot on. There is no one method...NO ONE METHOD that is guaranteed to be the right one. It is necessary to think, consider, pray, understand, and hope before launching a method just because some book or other says it is the right thing to do.
The day we turn our backs on the ones to which we gave birth is the day we have given up on everything good and right.
As usual, I welcome your comments pro and con. Remember, I hold no animosity toward anyone who disagrees with me on any post I have ever made or ever will make. But there are times when I would like to hear your reasoning. And if it's the old bull, "they will never stand on their own if we hold them up," is not a good reason.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I have been witnessing my neighbor cope with her daughter who is addicted to meth. She is the youngest of 4 children and the only one with addiction problems. It is tragic.
Having a daughter myself I can only pray that she doesn't fall victim to this torture. I don't know if I could apply the same principles to her that I apply to my AH. Bless us all.
As the mother of an addict daughter I did as much as I could to get my daughter clean/sober. I tried my best to get her into rehab many times, and she has attended Alateen and AA. She has smoked marijuana, cigarrettes, and drank beer, but her drug of choice was meth. While she was a minor I cajoled, pleaded, punished, guilted as much as I could to get her to quit. The many times I tried to tell her to learn from other peoples examples she complained that she couldn't do that. She had to make mistakes on her own to learn was her rationale. Even the birth of her son wouldn't change her. She lost her son to another family because she chose drugs over him. She is almost 23 now and I learned a hard lesson that what I want for her is not what she wants for herself. I wanted her to go to rehab and she wanted to do everything else but go to rehab. She has found sobriety, I don't know for how long or how permanent, that's not my business anymore.
I did have to detach from her problems because pushing her into doing what I think she needed was hurting me. It was also hurting her. Until I totally withdrew from her, did she finally find a job where she is valued highly, and find sobriety. I love my daughter, and I want to be involved in her life, I have limited contact with her at this time. But I can't be in her life if she chooses addiction and insanity, that isn't good for my recovery or our relationship.
There is no right way or wrong way to raise an addicted child. Raising a child is as individual as they are. Throwing in addiction makes raising them even more complicated. The only thing I know for sure is that no matter how much I tried to interfere with any of the addict's choices in my life, I was met with resistance and anger. They had to find their bottom...I couldn't force and the anxiety I earned from trying to help them was worse then their alcoholism.
How someone detaches from their alcoholic is individual too. And no, detachment is not the "sexy" solution when you wanna get in there and help someone with an addiction. Especially when it hurts you to see them in the situation they are in. But they have to want sobriety for themselves. They have to be allowed the dignity of making their own mistakes without out interference. They also need to have the dignity of finding sobriety on their own too. They are, after all, human beings.
Hope this helps, SenoraBob
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Higher Power doesn't always wrap presents in pretty paper.
Thanks, Senora Bob, for your kind and insightful response. I am not saying one is wrong to do everything they can...just the opposite. One MUST do every thing they can to help that addicted child. You are to be commended for your commitment to your precious daughter. And you are so right. there is no right or wrong way to detach. It is an individual experience driven by circumstances.
Bless you, and I send all good wishes,
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I think there is a difference between doing everything you can and trying to control what you can't control.
If you have a child who continiously lands in jail and you always get a great lawyer and there are very little consequences for their actions, what are the motives to stop landing in jail ?
I believe there are times to do things and times when not to. I have a teen who experimented w/ drugs the day before going for an outpatient mental health eval (where you will get drug tested, duh), who has an eating disorder and who engages in self-injury. I can understand what the parent of an addict child goes though, blaming themselves or others for the behaviors, letting go too much, hoping to expedite a bottom, punishing and controlling too much, hoping to expedite a bottom or stop the behavior outright. Each situation is different. I think it's best if we share our ESH when it happens, and each of us can take what we like.
I think the answer might sometimes be to pray and meditate hoping that my HP may guide me into the answer. Acceptance of what you can't change...yeah, ok, courage to change the things I can.....would be nice.......wisdom to know the difference? Priceless.
Thanks for the noggin' scrather. Bob
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You are a perfect child of God and God and I love you just the way you are! (added by me...in that special alanon way)
Diva, you know I will tell you my opinion like it or not. My story is a bit different.
My brother is 50 years old. Her excuse is "you wouldn't leave your son on the street" but ya know what??? I would. If he were a heroin addict and has been to rehab 30 or more times and nothing has worked then yes. He has stolen everything of value, lied to her to her face on a daily basis. He is an embarrasment. He is a waste of society. He contributes nothing! He uses the system. He gets a job on a crane and falls off so he can get pain killers and money and not work. Nuisance!
If this were a child that had a chance to relearn life and how to be a part of society then it would be worth investing much more time and energy. But there HAS to come a time to let go. Why risk anxiety attacks on a daily basis? Or a heart attack? Or high blood pressure.
So many different circumstances and so many things that can be done, know what I mean. You can't take a fifty year old and reteach them characteristics of life and how to be in public. They are set in their ways for the most part. I know my brother is.
I would fight for my child, of course...what mother wouldn't...but to a point. It would be the hardest thing to let them go I would ever do in my life. I let my best friend go knowing she was going to die, and did. :(
I think bob coined it when she said "what I want for her is not what she wants for herself. "
I would go to the ends of the earth for my children but there is a right way and a wrong way for each individual. My neighbor that I have mentioned here before IMO, does it the wrong way. Her daughter is a junkie in the worst sense of the word. Twenty four used needles were found in the back seat of her car right by her 3 yr old son. Her Mom tried to get the child out of the car and the daughter ran over her. legs. The next day she was at the jail putting money in her junkie daughter's account so she could have friggin snacks!! It blew me away!
The daughter has been in/out of countless rehabs since she was 15, she is now 31, but the neighbor falts the father of the child that has been in her life for 4 yrs..(he's a pc. of work too). I guess forget her daughter was this way waaaay before the father came along. The mom bailed the daughter out of jail this last time, even though it was her that pressed charges. Truly, I think the charges were pressed because her sister (my friend) made her and she was too ashamed not to. It is court ordered that if she was bailed out, she had to go to rehab. She was there over night and fled to Florida (from St. Louis). She called about a week later, penniless and high, and Mommy sent her money to come home. She got home and left the same night to go get high again and was gone for 10 days, deserting the child, while the Mom cared for him and worked 60 hrs a week. My freind told me that the child (3 yrs old) has not had any of his shots even though they are free via the county. What is help and what is torture? My neighbor is almost 60 yrs old, trying to make it on her own, caring for this child, who is a tyrant because of his surroundings. I feel sorry for her because she is sooooo far in denial. Everything her daughter does is someone elses fault. It's so hard to watch. She thinks all the "anon's" are people sitting around whining. She doesn't think AA works because "people sit around and talk about drinking". I've lived by these people for 15 yrs, and it's been 15 yrs of destruction. The daughter has stolen and hawked so many of her personal items it's crazy, diamonds, video cameras, tools, electronics. Some of the stuff wasn't even the Mother's stuff, it was my freind's, who is the junkie's Aunt. Yet, she welcomes her back in to her home to do it again and again.. Honestly, She's about the worst enabler I've ever seen and has no idea what harm she has done by providing a way for her to daughter to keep doing what she does.. They are leading eachother to an early grave.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
The first time I heard a sober A say his mother's love almost killed him, it kind of pissed me off. I came to understand that what he was saying was his mother would never allow him to hit his bottom -- which kept him in his disease longer.
I'll be honest, I don't understand too well those who come into this program and then hear their "child" is 40+ yrs old. I don't believe I'm a cold person but there comes a time where my child is going to have to be the grown up they are and face their consequences. Not that it wont hurt, or that I won't wish it were different, I will if that is a road either of my children take. It's just that I won't go that road with them.
No matter who it is that this disease is affecting -- we don't want them to do what they are doing because we know better -- rightly or not it's that person's choice to stay in their addiction. The hardest thing for me to do was to forgive my A for not being what I wanted him to be -- sober. Should my children choose the same road, I'll shed a lot more tears but I won't enable them.
Being the son of a highly codependent Mother, I can certainly see the difficulty in distinguishing what is the proper "amount" of love. {this is definately not an assault on Mom, as she was a child of the same} My brothers and I all certainly suffer (in my case, have suffered) from the codependent version of unconditional love. Mom made no boundaries and we learned not to, too. Just give all our love. We are good people with good hearts and we all know right from wrong, yet, it is my belief that if Mom had the ability to let us suffer the consequences/results of our misjudgements, we may have been able to break the cycle (of codependency).
Unfortunately, I think I (without kids of my own) am the only one in my blood family to understand this. My nieces and nephews, to my great displeasure, continue to show those damned traits... the cycle continues.
love cj
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time to stop going to the hardware store to buy bread.
My stepbrother was an addict for many years. I always say he did the correctional tour of the state of Delaware. He was in every jail in the state at one time or another. Luckily, we're a small state, but we do have quite a few prisons. Anyway, his father, my stepfather (who was a 'weekend warrior' alcoholic) constantly blamed other people for his son's problems...he was hanging with the wrong crowd...the cops had it in for him...nobody ever gave him a break...etc.,etc.,etc. Each time my stepbrother got in trouble, my stepdad would refinance the house, take out a loan, post bail, hire the best lawyer, and set him up in an apartment and buy him furniture. Don't know how many apartments full of furniture he lost along the way, but I know it made a dent in his father's finances! Finally, at about age 35, my stepbrother got into some trouble that even my stepdad couldn't get him out of, did his time, and came out of jail with a new attitude. He has a job, a girlfriend, hobbies, friends, and, most important, isn't using. I don't know why, but I like to think that maybe he did hit bottom and his HP helped him up. I'm so grateful that he did take advantage of this second chance (or third..or fourth...), but if he had been allowed to hit bottom sooner, the recovery might have happened sooner as well. But, everything in God's time, not ours. I know that I am happy that my stepbrother was able to turn his life around before his father passed away and helped take care of his dad in his final months. That was definitely a blessing for them both. That's the reason that I hope against hope that alcoholics/addicts can experience recovery no matter what age they might be, but only if they are allowed to get to the point where they have to face their past and their present without someone running interference for them. Marion
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Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit ("Bidden or not bidden, God is present") - Erasmus
I just reread my post, and realized that I came off smug and preachy. I'm working on that - if we took half the advice we gave, our lives would be so much better. I do believe what I wrote about allowing the alcoholic/addict hit bottom in order to recover, but not having children, I don't know what I would do if it were my son or daughter. My heart and my prayers go out to all of you who are dealing with that. Whatever decision you make, you will probably always second guess yourself, or think 'what if I had done...?' So much easier to judge a situation and give advice when I'm standing outside looking in. Marion
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Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit ("Bidden or not bidden, God is present") - Erasmus
Thanks to all of you for your replies. Whether or not we all agree, we can discuss issues comfortably, and that is what is so important and worthy about this site. I consider all of you my extended "family", and I value your opinions.
Now...Friend of Yours; you site a totally impossible set of circumstances, and given the facts as you present them, I would probably give up too. As I said, all is relative. If the kid is a rapist, a murderer, or some other kind of human trash, I could say "enough" and let him go. Sure. When hope is gone, so should I be.
Luna; your child is your "child" no matter his/her age. And you are right. There does come a time when a child must stand up and stand for something. But it is of paramount importance for a parent to stand by with love and comfort.
When I say, "do every thing you can" I mean just that. A parent also has to be able to recognize when he/she is not able to do any more.
Once more I remind all of you that I have no experience with an addicted child, so I probably sound like a person who has no children and preaches to parents how they should rear theirs. God I hope I don't come off that way.
I bid you all good day, and send best wishes all around,
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I am new here, but not new to living with alcoholism.
I've been reading this forum for about 3 months now and this particular topic has encouraged me to join.
I haven't had an opportunity to tell my story, but in replying to this topic, I suppose I will be telling my story now.
My husband and I are married for 33 yrs. We have two sons...ages 29 yrs. and 27 yrs. I am the mother of an alcoholic son. Our oldest. He has struggled with this disease since he was 17 yrs. old.
To simply answer the question of being able to detach...I CANNOT. No matter what. I cannot work the 12 step program of Al-Anon OR Families Anonymous (FA). I have tried. I have taken baby steps, but at this point in time there is absolutely no way that I would be able to hang our son out to dry. My husband cannot do this either and our other son (s/a's brother) also is unable to do so.
Why you ask? Because my son is a good person and he is my son. A part of me. He WANTS to get well, but he just hasn't been able to get there all the way. He is remorseful when he slips up. He is ashamed of himself when this happens. And he feels the shame during sobriety AND while intoxicated. The tears he cries when sober are no different from the tears he sheds when he is actively using. I see deep inside of him that he wants to end the insanity for himself and for those he loves. He is working his AA program, has a sponsor, and will be starting OP treatment. We see hope for our son. We believe in him and believe he will find his way one day. And we will undoubtedly continue to give all that is in us to be there for him as he struggles. I know we didn't cause this, cannot control this and are unable to cure it. What I do for my son is what I can do and make no attempts to control what I cannot control. But I still have to do what I humanly can to be there for him and offer support, encouragement and love.
The things he has done while actively using are all the things many alcoholics do. Suicide attempts, DUI's, license suspensions, alcohol breathing aparatus installed in his car, signature *party plates* to let the community know that a drunk driver is using our roads (keep your kids safe from this maniac), dates in court, civil lawsuits where he could lose his home for DUI accident(s), throwing up all over my new carpetting at 3AM, missing family holidays, totally messed up financially even though he has a very good profession/employment, toxic relationships, unable to commit when in a stable, good relationship. I could go on and on....
As a mother, I find it impossible to just let go. I pray. My HP is God. My son's HP is God. As a mother, it goes against all that is natural to turn my back. As a mother, we make sacrifices for our children. As a mother, we put our children's needs ahead of ourselves. We've done it from the moment we gave birth to them. Even when they become adults, we are still mothers and fathers. An age or number does not change that. I could never find serenity and peace if he attempted suicide and I knowingly did not answer his phone calls. I could never find serenity and peace knowing he needed something from me that would help him to get a step closer to sobriety and wellness and chose to say *no* to him. Make sense? Probably not.
Yes, I know that addicts/alcoholics need to reach their bottoms. But as a mother, I would do everything in my power to make certain that death is not my son's bottom.
With a child, detaching with love is so very difficult, if not almost impossible. I by NO MEANS, discount in any way shape or form the difficulties, pain, heartbreak that spouses and children of alcholics/addicts endure. Those crosses are just as heavy to bear. My father is a recovering alcoholic for 18 yrs.. I'm also a child of an alcoholic. It's completely different for ME, though. The heartbreak and choices I made with my a/f and a/s are like night and day.
Well...as you all can clearly see, I can be the poster child of why one would need Al-Anon. I am so very, very far from recovery. I am in so very, very deep. For now, I can find some serenity and peace in doing what I am doing, right or wrong. This works for me as a mother. I don't give up hope and I do believe that my a/s will find sobriety and recovery. But I need to do what I need to do because I am a mother of an a/s.
If you have read this far, I thank you deeply. I'm sorry this was so long.
My prayers go out to all of you and I ask for your prayers as well. Thank you for letting me have my say without fear of judgment.
I am with you on this one diva ,tho we talk about detachment all the time in prog I cannot imagine having to do it with a son or daughter , I have had to detach (mind my own business ) with life choices my sons are making so far off whack from my husb and myself thankfully no drugs involved or alcohol. I had a great deal of respect for Caroll Oconner the actor whos son died of an over dose . He said Get in thier faces , confront,put them into as many treatment programs as it takes . Start trusting what u see and hear regarding thier behavior , so what if they get angry at you at least they are alive. on the other side of thought I was in a chat room along time ago very late at nite and a woman came in disraught about her son , he had just called and said he needed 5000. NOW or they were going to kill him . he also gambled alot . She said she figured he was lying again but was uncertain as to what to do . What if he was telling the truth for a change?? There was a gentleman in the room 30 yrs sober who said he wanted to ask her a question , his question was What will you do , and how will u feel , if this money is used to buy the drugs that kill him . I almost fell off my chair , I had never thought of it that way before . talk about a rock and a hard place. yikes. Hopefully I will never have to make that decission , but for those that do . I trust you will make the right choice whatever that is . You have to do what feels right for you . not anyone else Louise
To those who asked...no I do not have an addicted child. Believe me, I thank my God every day for that. But, being fairly new to the world of alcoholism, I find myself exploring all phases of addiction and alcoholism (same thing, I know), and asking questions. I have an alcoholic partner who is a binge drinker; divorced him nearly two years ago, but we are still together. We were married 6 years.
I have a hard time imagining turning my back on my own child. I also remember the fight Carroll O'Connor put up for his son's sobriety. I would probably do the same. In the end, the son died, but at least O'Connor knows he did everything in his power.
Again, thanks for all the replies.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
As the mother of an addicted 'child', one who will turn 30 this coming January, I know I have done everything under the sun to 'help'. We've done counseling, therapy, in-patient, out-patient, I opened up my home and heart to her after a 9 month stint on felony meth-related charges. My dad shelled out 3 grand to a bailbondsman because he couldn't bear the thought of possibly dying while his granddaughter was behind bars.
She is in jail...again. I finally went to see her a few weeks ago, and it was to clean my side of the street, and one more time apologize for my own shortcomings as a mother for her first 8 years of life when I was active in my addictions/alcoholism.
The entire 30 minutes she sat there with a smirk on her face. She doesn't have a problem, just a victim of the wrong place at the wrong time. She couldn't explain the charges of stealing and using someone's credit card (among many other charges) other than she needed to do laundry.
I walked out of there with a sense of closure. I walked out of there knowing I have done everything I can do, and now I leave her to God.
I can sleep at night knowing I did the best that I could, and that I will always love her.
After having parents who nearly loved me to death, and I know they did the best they could with what they had, I will not do that to my daughter. She has to find her own way.
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"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson
My kids are little ones yet, so take what you like.
My husband is an addict. My brother is an alcoholic. They both know that I will not loan money, bail them out of jail, pay their bills, etc. My children also will be told that they will face their own consequenses. Already have with the older one, as far as he can understand.
The issue of detachment can be a confusing one. The reading I have done tells me that detachment does not mean we "turn our back" on the A. Detachment is emotional. When we are upset we do not think,but simply react. Often doing the opposite of what we would do if we were more rational. We must detach emotionally so we can make sound decisions. It is not necessarily physical, although it can be useful to remove ourselves so we can gain a calm perspective. Then we can examine our own motives for "helping" this person.
My codependent form of help was most times based in fear, or guilt, or a need to control. I did/do this because I did not respect my A enough to let him fix his own problems. He was really good at playing the poor, incapable one, and I fell for it over and over until I learned the art of detachment.
I still struggle with it sometimes and I'm sure that I always will. Especially with my kids because we "practice these principles in all of our affairs", so I try to use this principle when I dicipline the kids, too. It goes much better if I am calm, not upset and emotional.
DD, My heart goes out to you and your family. Please keep coming back. No one here would ever ask you to hang your son out to dry. That's not what the program asks. One thing to consider, too, is that the disease will take advantage of everything you do to help insulate your son from his own consequenses. If he wants to get sober, you may have to get out of his way, so he can fight this demon himself. Unless he has a mental instability, he is capable of doing it.
Hope to hear from you again many times.
Good Luck!
In recovery,
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~Jen~
"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown
Seems like you like to stir the pot......if you know what I mean. You don't have an addicted child, but many of us do.......So you don't know what you'd do, even though you might infer that you would. Addict/Alcoholics come from different homes and backgrounds. We never dreamed in our wildest dreams that we'd ever have a child with an addiction problem, yet we do. Many reach out for help as we did, and many make the hard choices as parents as we did. God will direct us and we will listen. We continue to pray for God's best for our son. If you don't have an addicted child then you don't need to keep bringing this up. We are here to support those parents who really need the help.
