The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I was reading, for about the hundredth time here, another derogatory comment towards "cookie cutter" responses. I get tired of the insinuation that somehow those who feel they have the strength and/or knowledge to tell others what they should or should not be doing are better than those of us who try very hard to refrain from those actions. Perhaps I am way too defensive on this issue - who knows - but I guess I want to stand up, as a confirmed and proud "cookie cutter".
I can't possibly know what others should and/or should not do - heck, I still have lots of difficulty in figuring out my own life many times.
My rule of thumb still applies..... I try not to "should" on others, and won't allow others to "should" on me.
Just my two cents for today...
Tom (aka Canadian guy, aka cookie cutter)
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Kim65 just responded to my post "Struggling to Let Go and Let God" about the concept of "terminal uniqueness," I guess that surfaces here sometimes. Personally, I am always looking for the tenets of al anon. My library doesn't have "How it works" and I can't afford to buy it. When I post here I am hungry for the al anon response, not someone's personal opinion.
I agree that "cookie cutter" responses are very much needed...especially for those that are new to recovery and are quite desperate for any kind of advice on what to do in what seems like impossible and hopeless situations. I think we need to be careful not to offer strong opinions in any situation... but extra care must be practiced with 'newbies'.
I've often wondered what it would be like to have phases of Al-Anon recovery. Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced...LOL. That way, our words of support and encouragement could be generated and embraced at different intervals/levels...gradually...and most importantly with respect. I believe there's truly a beginning, middle, and beyond when it comes to recovery and the wisdom that comes with experience can validate different approaches at different levels. I do know for me...I needed the patient, gentle approach in the beginning, but find that I now long more for the non-sugar coated, factual approach to keep me moving forward. The complexity comes in trying to seperate...which is most likely next to impossible. Therefore; respectful responses at every stage is always the best approach (in my opinion)...
Yeah, none of us are 'cookie cutters' in our lives as a whole. However, while here, I feel that it is more important for me to reflect my understanding of alanon's tenets than to reflect my own opinions on the issue at hand. This is an alanon board, not an "advice from lin" board...
I am concerned most with newcomers regarding this issue. Most come here hoping and wishing for advice, and understandably so. Advice is freely given whether asked for on not on most all forums. We need to recognize and accept it as it is . . . an early stage in recovery.
When you are new to all this and have no faith in yourself or relationship with a Higher Power, it's natural to ask for advice, but it's so important to encourage the new folks to begin to trust their own judgement.
And the stories we tell . . . when you think about listening to stories, from sitting on Mom's lap while she reads a book to you up until you read them yourself, stories are our life lines to each other, they frame our experiences, and like a grab bag, are full of all kinds of stuff that means different things to different people.
Offering our stories rather than our advice, to me, is more respectful to the individual.
Where I fall down is when there are children involved or violence. Even then, I think a newcomer can be easily overwhelmed and made to feel worse by a barrage of "you need to . . ." which is why we need to meet people where they are at. After all, WE were met where we were at by someone. It's all overwhelming enough. If we jerk too hard on someone we might pull their arm off.
A gentle approach with full acceptance and offers of understanding seems the best "greeting" for new Alanons. I admit I wanted someone to tell me what to do RIGHT NOW at first. I didn't appreciate the kindness and fellowship part yet, but it worked at me until I realized that is what I needed, not advice.
I appriciate what you posted, thank you. I believe we are in Al-anon to help ourselves get well but, I am so grateful for all of the honest responses that are posted here. So often in our every day lives no one can relate with what we go through every day. This has been the only place that I feel like most of the time I can read honest responses and depend on them. I am falling apart at the seams and no one in my picket white fence community can ( or pretend not to) relate to being married to an alcoholic much less divorcing one who has cheated and lied to me. Please, I think we can follow 12 step principles here but more importantly we need to be able to be honest for one another - because for some of us this is all we have got. I do understand what you are saying and we do need to be watchful.
In the beginning (I've only been in Alanon for 2 years so I'm still a newbie - working on the steps) I used to hate cookie cutter responses.
In fact they used to piss me off ~
But - nothing else seemed to work... not others advice, not my own actions - I was miserable - crying all of the time and wanting to die.
I was desperate. As much as I hated the cookie cutter responses - it was something I had not tried. "Keep doing what you're doing and you'll keep getting what you're getting" is what they would say to me at every meeting as I questioned the "slogans" - and you know, I was sick of living the way that I was (depressed and wanting to die). So I did what they said "Keep coming back" and now I find so much comfort in those slogans and those "cookie cutter responses" ~
Thank God for the slogans because sometimes my head is spinning so fast and the internal chatter is so crazy that I need something as simple as the slogan.
The truth, I have found for myself, is that every response or share that I make is unique to each thread. That is what helps ME; to read and respond with ESH reminds me of the work I've done or am doing and keeps ME on track. If my ESH can, perhaps, help someone in need, then it is a double-blessing.
What other people think of me is none of my business. I will continue to share my ESH and LOVE with my Al-Anon families no matter who thinks whatever. Let it begin with me, always. I own what I say and what I respond to, and that is the only inventory I care to keep tabs on.
with love, cj
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time to stop going to the hardware store to buy bread.
I guess I haven't encountered too many "shoulds" here.....I adore and rely on both personal shares and alanon wisdom....when I read someones words that are speaking more directly, I detach abit and know it is their experience that they are sharing. And the cookie cutter respnses are incredibly profound and supportive in their own way...and I know they are coming from someone special which makes them not totally generic. My favorite is "I got busy and I got better". Fifi
Well, I feel the need to put my two cents worth in here.
I do not like to judge anyone or anything.
What I do, personally, is take what I like and leave the rest...saves me alot of grief and keeps me from complaining or criticising others...that is what works for me! Just my humble opinion...take it or leave it!
Love in recovery - Jeri
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The ultimate lesson all of us have to learn is unconditional love, which includes not only others but ourselves as well. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross
To each their own. People are all different. While some love the al anon "cookie' cutter repsonses, others like it the way it is. I believe if someone is in a difficult spot and does not have the strength to figure things out. What's the harm of letting them know that there is help in their area and possibly giving them the site? Or giving them options that they may not have thought of. Sometimes you have to realize that not everyone thinks like "you" (in general) It's not recovery for one individual but for hundreds of others. I know for one I have private messages all the time thanking me for caring enough to put it like it is. So I am the way I am. Take what you want leave the rest "that's cookie cutter for ya"!!! lol
How soooo "Principals before Personalities" this discussion is!! How soooo "Progress not Perfection" it is also. I shall keep coming back, keeping it all simple, one day at a time while letting go of all I have no control over and letting go to the God of my understanding. This program works if I work it. I got here by working MY program. That didn't work at all.
Acceptance is the solution to all of my problems and it is in the conditon of acceptance that my spirit finds free flight from anything that would earlier cause it's slavery. The Al-Anon program is a Spiritual program and only a Spiritual program. Therefore I will stay in unconditional acceptance, which is love and keeping soaring.
I only have the program to give back. I would only give back what has worked for me and for those who gave it to me.
How many times during the day do I repeat ODAT, the Serenity Prayer, etc? Too many to count for this old gal! I have said many times here, that recovery is no cookie cutter science as we are all unique individuals as we need to adapt our recovery strategies to us. But that certainly doesn't mean we shouldn't use the tools we are given. Heck my "toolbox" is full of these cookie cutters. Thank goodness! I'd be a basket case otherwise. So here's to being a proud cookie cutter!
Much love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty (who loves cookies!)
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
Au contraire Canadian Guy. I look forward to your responses and find them anything but cookie cutter. When we do give those slogans in context it shows you what situation you are suppose to use them.
My only thought on this is, God help us when we all start thinking, acting. and speaking exactly alike. I have been helped more by a variety of ideas (take what I like and leave the rest) than by the same words of the same old song and dance. Hurray for individuality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Hi - I'm fairly new to this board and to Al-Anon. As a newbie, I can honestly say that hearing the same things repeated has helped me to think about them more. Our situations are all different, yet the underlying concerns are basically the same, and it helps a lot to know that the slogans, principles, traditions, etc., are what have gotten many of you senior members through very trying times (as well as the support of fellow Al-Anoners). I certainly don't think any of the messages I've read were written by "Stepford" Al-Anoners who just spout out slogans like gumballs from a machine. I like the idea of keeping it simple, and, if I may add another cliche', if it ain't broke, don't fix it! Thank you all so much! Marion
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Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit ("Bidden or not bidden, God is present") - Erasmus
I remember when I was new in the program and hearing the slogans. I thought they were cheesey and stupid...that is until I learned their meanings. Each person is individual, and each person has their own scenario they live with/without an active alcoholic. What you choose to do when someone says "One day at a time" or "keep coming back" or "think" is up to you. I have no idea what the outcome will be, but I am gonna do it the best I know how and in the direction my Higher Power wants me to move in. Many oldtimers here have done some of those things and they offer their experience,strength, and hope to those that are in the middle of a crisis or are new. What you choose to do with that experience strength and hope is up to you. In Al-Anon we offer no advice except that if you are in a violent situation you need to keep yourself safe and that any violence directed towards you is unacceptable.
I have been in this program for a long time and I still have no idea what the answers are so if someone figures it out let me know. Love you all, SenoraBob
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Higher Power doesn't always wrap presents in pretty paper.
I know for me, when I come here upset, I need the al anon sayings. Need things to be simple sometimes.
Then other times need the experiences of others and their views.
People have diverse needs, I love to read all the sharing of different people.
It is my feeling however, MY feeling, that the word, "should" is a dangerous word. To me to tell someone they should do this or that, is arrogant and putting your will on another. To me it is controlling.
Saying should is assuming you are right. But you may not be. To say, my experience, or have you thought about etc. just feels better.
I like to say I invite you to....then it is a take it or leave it.
All I know is we all learn different things from each other,and it is what makes our Al Anon MIP home so precious to me.
I have said many times here, that recovery is no cookie cutter science as we are all unique individuals as we need to adapt our recovery strategies to us. But that certainly doesn't mean we shouldn't use the tools we are given. Heck my "toolbox" is full of these cookie cutters. Thank goodness! 
I'd be a basket case otherwise. So here's to being a proud cookie cutter!
