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I heard somewhere that alcoholism isn't a DISEASE , it's a DECISION . After 6 months of sobriety , why did my A b/f suddenly start drinking again .. It wasn't a physical craving , it was a psycological one surely ... In need of ESH here because i'm so confused , thanks .
I think you can find literature that would suggest alcoholism to be any number of things, including the two you mentioned. Personally, I fully accept it as a disease. I didn't have to see anything more than my ex-A-wife, who was all of 135lbs, having passed out by 9:30am on a weekday, after having drank a 26-oz bottle of vodka. Nobody would "wish" this upon themselves, and it was hardly fun for them.
Why did your A relapse? Plain and simple, because he is an alcoholic, who has not fully accepted this fact and his need for recovery. I know of people in AA, long time sober people, who tell stories of relapsing after more than ten years of sobriety, and when they get back to their programs, they explain it by saying they "fell asleep - i.e. they took their eyes off of their recovery program"
I hope you can choose to work on you, and your recovery from this muck. Your A may or may not choose recovery for himself, but YOU can get better.
Take care Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I use to think it was a decision , too. I also thought it was just to tick me off. After several years of reading all I could about it, The best way for me to accept it and understand is that it is a disease. I have learned to accept that my husband has a chemical imbalance, is manic depressive, is bi-polar, is an alcoholic. All of the medical diagnoses go hand in hand.
A decision? Can you imagine anybody would CHOOSe to act the way they do when drunk? Say the things they say? Hurt those who love them the most? Give up jobs, family, freinds because of drinking? Woudl a person DECIDE to lose everything jsut to drink?
Alcoholism is cunning, baffling, and powerful. It has a tight hold on the alcoholic. They are obsessed with it. They will do anything for that next drink. They may have all good intentions to not drink that day and it happens.
My husband is one who TRIES not to drink most of the time. But every few weeks he drinks. It's an improvement from the first 35 years we were married when he drank about 4 or 5 times a week. He goes to AA but I doubt he has told anybody there he drinks a couple of times a month. He's one who is not ready to totally give it up.
How to I cope? I go to alanon. I read my literature. I come to the chatrooms online. I talk to my local friends in recovery. I help others. I have learned to use tools of the program and have found a very good way to live. I made a decision not to divorce. It was out of the question as far as I was concerned. So i have learned to make the best of it.
Q. Is Alcoholism a Disease? From National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism
A. Yes. Alcoholism is a chronic, often progressive disease with symptoms that include a strong need to drink despite negative consequences, such as serious job or health problems. Like many other diseases, it has a generally predictable course, has recognized symptoms, and is influenced by both genetic and environmental factors that are being increasingly well defined. (See also Alcohol Alert No. 30: Diagnostic Criteria for Alcohol Abuse and Dependence.)
I found this on google, Try googling "Alcohol the disease" you will find out all you need to know......
Frankly, it's up to you what you think. That is, if you find it helpful to think that it is a decision, then go for it.
For me, one of the hardest parts of the drinking was that it just didn't make sense. If he really would rather be at the bar all the time than with us, why not just divorce me and live like he was single again? If he really believed all those things he said to me when drunk, why not just let me go? As long as I looked at it as a choice he was making, the crazier it was. It was only when it hit me - "Wait a minute, nobody would do this to himself on purpose. Hey, there's something WRONG with him!" that I was able to make some sense of it all. I firmly believe that it is a disease because it acts like a disease. When you compare alcholism to other mental illnesses, the similarities are striking.
The problem comes in when either you or the alcholic uses this as an excuse - a "get out of jail free" card. "Oh, he's sick, therefore I have to put up with it." No, you still have the right and the obligation to take care of yourself. He still has to face the consequences of his actions. The difference is that you can see what he is and what he does, protect yourself from it, and still allow yourself to have compassion and even love for him.
I, quite frankly, don't know. I hear so many people call it a disease, yet I do not understand how one compares alcoholism to, say, cancer or diabetes. I do believe it is a mental derangement. As lin0606 said, it is impossible to believe that an A makes a decision to drink, knowing how he/she will be affected physically, and knowing the trouble it causes in a family. On the other hand, as with any addiction, the key is a commitment to control that addiction, and live a sane, alcohol-free life. Some can do it; others cannot. Some say, if the alcoholic is mean or abusive, "It is the disease talking." I respect their right to say that, but I feel it is the person doing the talking, and that person happens to be drunk. I feel no sympathy as I would for someone who was suffering from a disease. I feel revulsion because this person cannot control him/herself.
So, again., as lin0606 said, whether you feel it is a decision or a disease is up to you.
Best wishes, Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
"It wasn't a physical craving , it was a psycological one surely ... "
Hi Cytagirl,
Whether or not you choose to believe someone elses drinking is a disease or a decision is entirely up to you of course. For me I believe it is a disease. I believe this just from the fact of, as afglin said, why would anyone CHOOSE to pay the price they do when they drink alcoholically?
Whether an addiction is physical or psycological makes no difference to me either. The addiction is there no matter what the source. I personally believe there are alcoholics of both kinds and they are equally slaves to their addiction unless they get help.
Are you attending al-anon meetings? If not, I would urge you to consider this. It will help you to start gaining understanding.
We have a list of Do's and Dont's that we read in my home group. The very first "Do" on the list is to "Learn the facts about alcoholism". Someone at my meeting last week asked the question, how do I do this, what can I read?
I suggested to this person the thing that helped me the most of anything I have ever read or heard on the subject of alcoholism. Get a copy of the Big Book of AA and start reading. The knowledge and understanding to be gained from that book is a life saver for both alcoholics and for those who live with them.
here's my opinion- take it for what it is worth I think addiction is a disease with decision components-- but then so is diabetes. If a diabetic chooses not to take care of themselves, follow their diet/take insulin etc they will die- eventually. the addict's decision is not to use. period. or the disease takes over. I also believe that addiction is a mental illness and our society has a hard time with that. It is like telling the schizophrenic to stop hearing voices-- that it is "all in their head". that is it EXACTLY. The stigma of mental illness- whatever the cause- is that it is not really illness. We tell clinically depressed people to "cheer up" and deny the illness component of it. I also think that it is a disease because they are not enjoying it anymore. My AH would drink and/or smoke pot or take sleeping pills usually at the start of a binge for some reason ( don't want to go to work, kids are watching "his" tv, wife is "too fat") but eventually he just did it because he did it. He is puking, he has headaches, his back hurts from laying around all day. I think everybody starts off thinking they are having fun-- "better living thru chemistry"-- but the disease part sucks the fun right out of it. I also think it is impossible for us to "get it" because we are not As. Thats one of the guiding principles of AA-- that truly only other As get it. I believe that-- despite my ego telling me I know everything!
Jeanne
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In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip.- Daniel L. Reardon
I have heard this discussion many times over the years i have been in alanon. I am a strong believer in take what you like and leave the rest. Means i can choose to believe what works for me and allow others to thier own beliefs. I can choose to listen to someone elses esh without necessarily following what they did if it doesnt feel right for me. This is mine.
I held a resentment for so long on this. My parents were both alcoholics all my life. I couldnt understand for the life of me why they would keep choosing day after day to drink instead of take care of thier children, and expect me to hide it, embarass me when they walked out the door.. Let alone beat me while they were drunk. I didnt understand till way into adulthood and only in the last few years. I dont think anyone would choose to embarass themselves, be ashamed of drinking knowing they can not stop no matter how much they want to. Hear things from me all the time what they did to me, i always told them cause they never remembered. That feeling must be unreal for them also. So i dont agree it is a decision anymore although it has felt like it has been for so long. I used to say if they loved me they would just stop, i also used to pray that they have less money because they both had good jobs and they drank thier money away. I used to get so angry.
I understand now and see it this way as it was explained to me more than a few times. Acoholics suffer from emotional pain a pain that i have felt many times and when i feel it i have to sleep. Just as a cancer patient or diabetes patient or any other patient that feels physical pain need meds to stop it. Alcoholics stop thier emotional pain by drinking, and until they realize that it is the drinking that is adding to thier pain, they wont stop. I learned that it was nothing i could of done or said to make my parents stop god knows i tryed. I know now i wasted my time and i could of detached with love, accept they had a problem and be so grateful i didnt live in thier shoes and that i know where to go if and when i need help. I know my parents could not function without drinking but they were functional alcoholics who both barely slept but worked 9 to 5. They needed to get by and they refused help, it was more scarier than what they were doing i guess. So in my own opinion, it is a disease one that shouldnt exist but does. Another big thing i learned that took me years to learn it was that we are all where we are supposed to be and everything isnt so bad i can be ok no matter what, that is a choice i have. Thank Hp for that :) .
kerry
-- Edited by kerry5 at 12:27, 2007-07-07
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Life can only be understood backwards, But it must be lived forwards
I think it's both a disease and a choice. I believe that although they eventually reach the point where they have no choice as to wanting a drink or not, they also have a million chances to turn around before they get there. And what about after they get there? When an alcoholic admits he is an alcoholic and still seeks no help, that is a choice.
It's very complicated, I think, with no easy yes or no answer. Anyway, that is just my take on it, and I know that there are many who disagree, but that's okay.
You will find your own way of looking at it, Cytagirl, and that will be okay too.
There is a certain choice in this topic for them. However my experience is a little different, My mother suffered from cancer the doctors said she probably had it for years, she knew she was sick but didnt seek help. When she started feeling pain at xmas time and had trouble walking she still didnt go for help. I had to threaten her with a social worker that i would bring in that didnt even work. The day she couldnt walk at all or move is when she went for help. That is when she was diagnosed with cancer and she never walked again after that. We thought she had hurt her hip rude awakening with kidney cancer already spread to her bones. She chose that. I was told her cancer was curable had she seen a doctor before ten years ago. She was diagnosed given 6-9 months to live she lived 2 months. 2 years ago.
So i guess it does come down to a choice and for people like my mom. Suffereing was less scarier than help. Not for me! (sometimes hehe) I still keep on keepin on though cause i know the other roads i could go down and iw ant no part of that path cant say the same for the people in my family though. To each thier own
kerry
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Life can only be understood backwards, But it must be lived forwards
Alcoholics call this a 3 fold disease, mental ,physical , spiritual . There is not doubt in my mind that this is a disease ,this morning I got a call that a 32 yr old aquantaince has been taken off life support because he just couldn't quit drinking and using . I also watched my husb go from a carring loving responsible man with the soul of a boy scout , leave his family so that he could drink again after 9 months of dry. He came close to dying before he finally made a decission to quit that was 19 yrs ago . What person in thier right mind would walk away from a family that loves and cares for them to live alone in a dinky apt just so he could drink what he needs with no one watching . Mental Physically my husb ended up with his skin hanging on him like an old sweater his body had started to atrefied - physical When a man walks away from his home that he loves and puts alcohol before all else , dosent care if he lives or dies , no purpose but to work and drink - spiritual . To day 19 yrs sober the boy scout h as returned with a will to live . and to make all of our lives better . This is just my observation . as was said take what u like and leave the rest. I will never truly understand the alcoholic any more than he will ever understand how his drinking affected my life . but none of that matters now , I wasted way too much time trying to figure him out . I needed to find out why I did the things I did in this relationship so I could fix myself . Louise There is only one thing I truly understand today and that is what Al-Anon had been trying to tell me for yrs . a few yrs ago my husb went thru two bouts of caner both sever and life threatning , this is what a disease does to me
I imediatley stop living my life and begin to hover waiting to fulfil the sick persons need just to make thier life better . I become obsessed with them . No one asked me to do this . I just did it . - sound familiar ???
I think all disease has a "choice" component. The fortunate thing about alcoholism and drug addiction is that the person can CHOOSE to put the disease in remission. A person can't always do this with diabetes or cancer, but can choose to cooperate with treatment or not to increase chances of remission.
Al-Anon calls it a disease, Toby Rice Drew in her books, "Getting Them Sober" which were available at my first Al-Anon meeting (even tho not conf. approved!), calls it a disease. So I call it a disease.
Disease, addiction, etc.? If it were just a choice, most alcoholics would quit and go back to social drinking. Problem is, they can't do it without treatment. In my book, that makes it a disease.
I found detachment with love much easier to deal with after I made the choice to call it a disease.
One thing that helped me to accept that it is a disease was to go to open AA meetings and listen to the other side.
In those AA meetings, I heard folks share about how they were back AGAIN after having gone out and that they were thankful for 1 or 2 DAYS of sobriety--about how they wanted to try yet again... It was really heartbreaking. I realized that each of them had a family somewhere living the same pain that I was. I also realized that they weren't there because they had won some grand prize--as hard as it was for me to walk into my first Al-Anon meeting, I cannot image how hard it is to walk into your first AA meeting and admit that you are an A. Or, even worse, walk into the room and admit that you went out and now you are back. I saw only love and acceptance from the other As in the room for the folks that came back, but it has to be incredibly diffult to keep going back. To admit that you "failed." To ask for help again. To realize that you, once again, let everyone you love down. I've been told that active As live their lives in fear and shame anyway--talk about a vicious cycle.
By going to AA meetings, I was able to accept what alcoholism is and probably more importantly, I found compassion for my A--something that was sorely lacking in me at the time.
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Do not be anxious about tomorrow; tomorrow will look after itself. The Bible, from Courage to Change, p.138
besides now coming to alanon, I am in AA. Part of the disease is relapse. I never went back to drinking, it will be 28 years on july 9th. I did try just smoking pot since I didn't believe it was addicting, but it sure got ahold of me. See what happens for me is I forget what it was really like, I tell myself just smoking this will be different now because. With addiction it"s likes having this evil little voice trying to tell you it could work this time, or something happens and you say life sucks, I might as well drink or use. Going to AA helps keep it green, but doesn't garantee your thinking won't go places it shouldn't. There are so many parts to recovery, it takes just one to get off, and if it goes to long, there's a chance for relapse. I think the first time I go back to using, it is a choice, I convince myself it is ok or I don't care or whatever, then it is no longer a choice, then I have to. that's why the saying one is too many and 100 is never enough makes sense. anyhow I pray my 19 year old finds recovery, having just lost a friend as a result of his addiction, not sure which way it may take her. I am glad I finally agreed to try alanon, I was afraid you all would be taking about "them". I gueese you do, but in an OK way, We addicts can be jerks, I know, going to meetings we can laugh at ourselves, and cry as well. Take care.
I mentioned elsewhere how helpful I found the book "Under the Influence." It describes how differently an alcoholic's body processes alcohol from a non-alcoholic's, even from the first drinks s/he ever takes. It goes on to describe the stages of alcoholism, and how by the time a person or anyone around them realizes they have a problem, the alcohol has a firm grip on them.
I think part of the problem is the same problem any of has when trying to make a major life change -- "Oh, what's one more day matter? I'll do it tomorrow..." or next Monday, or after my Mom gets better, or after (insert some other significant time). Tomorrows accumulate, the disease takes an ever-firmer grip, and it becomes harder and harder.
I guess it's why they call alcoholism baffling, cunning, and whatever the other term is. It sure is heartbreaking to watch.
but does. Another big thing i learned that took me years to learn it was that we are all where we are supposed to be and everything isnt so bad i can be ok no matter what, that is a choice i have. Thank Hp for that :) . 
